World or elect

[agedman]

In numerous threads, the reformed cling to the thinking that the blood was for the elect, only.

Yet, John is consistent in his statements using the world that would actually dispute such thinking.

Rather than rushing into disputation, I thought it proper to post Scriptures in which “world” is actually used, and see how the B.B. would render each use.

So here is one to begin:

1 John 4:
1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. 4You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 5They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
​

Does the word “world” mean elect or does it mean all ungodly humanity?

Surely, one is not going to suggest both, for that is just bias obliging some rendering that is inconsistent.

So how is “world” used in this passage, and what other passages would be supportive?

 

[Calminian]

World means world, elect means elect.

 

[agedman]

John starts his account of the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ, by relating the beginnings.

Then he writes in John 1:

9There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

​

Does the word “world” mean the elect, or does it mean the whole of ungodly humanity?

 

[TCassidy]

World means world, elect means elect.

But what does κοσμος mean? And what does ελεκτος mean?

 

[Calminian]

John starts his account of the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ, by relating the beginnings.

Then he writes in John 1:

9There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

​

Does the word “world” mean the elect, or does it mean the whole of ungodly humanity?

World means world.

John further states,

John 12:35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.​

The author of Hebrews states something similar.

Heb. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Heb. 6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
​

From these it seems to say all are given light, but few receive it.

 

[agedman]

But what does κοσμος mean? And what does ελεκτος mean?

κοσμος - universe


ελεκτος - elect

 

[agedman]

World means world.

John further states,

John 12:35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.​

The author of Hebrews states something similar.

Heb. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Heb. 6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.​

Where is the word “world” in these passages?

 

[Calminian]

Where is the word “world” in these passages?

world is often used to indicate "every man" or "all men."

 

[agedman]

Other writers also use this word “world?”

Matthew uses it in Mathew 16:

26“For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?​

Does this word “world” mean all of the ungodly, or is it the elect?

 

[agedman]

world is often used to indicate "every man" or "all men."

Ok, try to bold such next time so I can catch your posting.

 

[Calminian]

Other writers also use this word “world?”

Matthew uses it in Mathew 16:

26“For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?​

Does this word “world” mean all of the ungodly, or is it the elect?

It means world in both cases. Christ died for the world, all the people and the world itself, which will be redeemed fully, heaven, earth, people. (I'm assuming you believe in the future new heavens and earth.) Paul eludes to this when he says the entire creation groans waiting for the sons of God to be revealed.

So when Christ says he's the light of the world, I take it as him saying he light to the entire world, benefitting those that can see and understand.

I don't ever see world as meaning just a few people.

 

[TCassidy]

κοσμος - universe

Uh, not exactly.

ελεκτος - elect

Not exactly.

 

[agedman]

To continue with this word “world,” It again appears in Matthew 16:

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!​

So does this word, “world,” mean the elect or all of ungodly humanity?

 

[agedman]

Uh, not exactly.

Not exactly.

I figured you would be honored to expand what I didn’t exactly.

 

[Calminian]

To continue with this word “world,” It again appears in Matthew 16:

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!​

So does this word, “world,” mean the elect or all of ungodly humanity?

Still means the entire world. The verse refers to the world's stumbling blocks—those various stumbling blocks you might find in the entire world which may stumble us at any given time. Could be people or anything else. Again, world means world.

 

[agedman]

Moving to Acts 17 the word “world” occurs in the statement:

23“For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. 24“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;...
​

Does the word “world” mean all ungodly or the elect?

 

[agedman]

So far, 13 occurrences of the word “world” and not a single one would be indicating the elect, but each refer to all the creation and all the humanity in the creation.

I will post more verses, but so far, there isn’t much support for the world meaning elect.

 

[agedman]

Back to John, there is that wonderful prayer of The Lord Jesus Christ given in chapter 17. The word “world” is used here:

13“But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. 14“I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15“I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. 16“They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.17“Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18“As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19“For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.​

Does “world” mean the elect, or does it mean all of ungodly humanity?

​

 

[agedman]

Another place in John is in the fifteenth chapter, were it states:

18“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.19“If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the wo​

Does the word “world” mean the elect or all ungodly humanity?

 

[agedman]

The Scriptures record the word “world” in the following passage from John 18:

36Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” 37Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” 38Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?”​

Does the word “world” mean the elect or all ungodly humanity?

 

[agedman]

The opening to the first letter to the Corinthians has these words in chapter 1:

20Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23but we preach​

And again,

7but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29so that no man may boast before God.​

Does the word “world” mean the elect or the ungodly humanity?