World War I might have been avoided if ....

[Crabtownboy]

Sadly, the war was not avoided. If World War I had been avoided there is a very high probability that World War II would never have come about as the treaty ending WW I set in motion the actions that led to Hitler and Nazi Germany.

Ferdinand, the Austrian archduke who was assassinated in Sarajevo, had long stood out against those who wanted war to solve Austria-Hungary's problems. His death ironically, removed the one man who might have been able to prevent his country from declaring war on Serbia and thus setting the whole chain reaction in motion.

"The War That Ended Peace: The Road to 1914" by Margaret Macmillan, e-book location 302.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Do you know that MacMillan is universally castigated for failing to understand the politics leading up to WWI, therefore has a bad premise for all her conclusions? How interesting ...

 

[Winman]

World War I was an unnecessary war that happened because of alliances. After Ferdinand was assassinated, Austria-Hungry attacked Serbia. Russia was forced to defend Serbia by treaty, and then Germany was forced to declare war on Russia by treaty. This caused France to declare war on Germany because of their treaty with Russia. Germany attacked France through Belgium who had a treaty with England which brought them into the war.

None of these countries were really enemies of each other, but were forced to enter the war because of treaties and alliances they had signed.

It was a crazy and unnecessary war.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

World War I was an unnecessary war that happened because of alliances. After Ferdinand was assassinated, Austria-Hungry attacked Serbia. Russia was forced to defend Serbia by treaty, and then Germany was forced to declare war on Russia by treaty. This caused France to declare war on Germany because of their treaty with Russia. Germany attacked France through Belgium who had a treaty with England which brought them into the war.



None of these countries were really enemies of each other, but were forced to enter the war because of treaties and alliances they had signed.



It was a crazy and unnecessary war.

I agree 100% and am not sure why the US felt compelled to get involved. At the very worst we would have seen a US ally German Empire which would have controlled all of germanic Europe and added to its world possessions (which it would later have been forced to let go, just like the British Empire). There would have been no reason for WWII.

Of course it is always possible that the British and German Empires would have ended up in conflict over some other situation.

Russia would have been the interesting situation - I am not sure what would have happened there. I suspect that the tzar would have remained in power for a while, but just don't know what would have happened.

I also wonder if Ireland would have sought her independence then if Britain was not tied up with WWI.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

From what I understood we had a non-interventionist platform prior to 1917. The Germans sinking the Lusitania, and the Sussex caused some to want to declare war, but when we found out there were German subs probing the East Coast, that was the last straw.


Then there were economic interests, and good propaganda from both sides, but I do believe we tried to stay out of it.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

...After Ferdinand was assassinated, Austria-Hungry attacked Serbia.

The leader of "Black Hand", the group that pulled off the assassination, was the then-leader of Serbian military intelligence.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Contrary to what history tells us, World War I was an absolutely necessary war. In fact, British historian Sir Max Hastings produced a documentary by the same name, "The Necessary War", which is posted to you.tube in its entirety. The BBC snapshot of the one-hour program is below.

BBC: The Necessary Warhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03wtmz6http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03wtmz6

Our perceptions of the First World War today are dominated by the idea it was a futile conflict, a colossal waste of life, and an immense tragedy for Britain and all of Europe. It is a view that has been fostered by the war poets who wrote vividly about the experience of trench warfare, and by countless novels, films and television programmes in the years since. Many even go as far as suggesting that the First World War led directly to the rise of Hitler and the outbreak of the Second World War.

In a single documentary to mark the 100-year anniversary of the outbreak of war, Sir Max Hastings presents the argument that although it was a great tragedy, far from being futile, the First World War was completely unavoidable.

Max presents the case that the rulers of Germany in 1914 were intent on dominating Europe and, after Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated in June 1914, actively encouraged the Austrians to invade Serbia. They were responsible for igniting the spark that turned a local controversy into a full-blown European war.

He also argues that once the Germans decided to invade France through neutral Belgium, it was impossible for Britain, mindful of its own position within Europe and a guarantor of the small state's neutrality, to simply stand by. Not only that, when the conflict was only weeks old, the Germans were already compiling a shopping list of key territories they would seize after victory to secure their complete domination of Europe.

Through conversations with the world's most eminent World War I scholars and military historians, including Sir Michael Howard, Sir Hew Strachan, Professor John Rohl and Professor Margaret MacMillan, Max explores the key questions surrounding the outbreak of the war and the necessity for Britain to step in.

He also explores how and why, once the war was over, the common perception of the conflict as a bungled, unnecessary bloodbath emerged. He examines the misconceptions that surround the Versailles peace agreement, which many unfairly blame for the outbreak of the Second World War, and the sense of disappointment and frustration created by economic and political turmoil of the 20s and 30s.

In conclusion Max argues that, while the centenary of the war is not a cause of jubilation, we should tell our children and grandchildren that their ancestors did not fight for nothing; if Germany had won, Europe would have paid a far more terrible price.

 

[KRJ]

In 1914.....

".....Our culture, Western culture, in effect put a gun to its head and blew its brains out. Everything since has merely been the twitching of the corpse.”

https://www.traditionalright.com/the-view-from-olympus-22-his-majestys-birthday/

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

".....Our culture, Western culture, in effect put a gun to its head and blew its brains out. Everything since has merely been the twitching of the corpse.”

https://www.traditionalright.com/the-view-from-olympus-22-his-majestys-birthday/

Sorry, that's nonsense. If there was a trigger pulled, the gun was in Germany's hands.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Sorry, that's nonsense. If there was a trigger pulled, the gun was in Germany's hands.

Actually it was not Germany that fired the first shot and set off the tragedy of WW I which we are still paying for and will continue to do so for a long time into the future.

The Austrian/Hungarian Empire, headed by Franz Joseph set the whole thing off by declaring war on Serbia. German, unfortunately, had given them what is called a blank check and were forced to enter the war on their side. England/France and Russia, the Triple Entente then, because of treaty obligations entered the war and thus millions of lives were put at stake and lost.

Yes, Europe put a gun to its head and blew its own brains out, in a manner of speaking. Interestingly almost all the leaders of the countries involved were related to each other.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Actually it was not Germany that fired the first shot ...

You don't read anything anyone else posts, do you? You just go off half-cocked -- pun intended -- and spew nonsense wherever it may fall. Read the post I made four posts before this one and learn something for a change.

 

[Crabtownboy]

You don't read anything anyone else posts, do you? You just go off half-cocked -- pun intended -- and spew nonsense wherever it may fall. Read the post I made four posts before this one and learn something for a change.

Read all your posts. All are incorrect. I'd suggest you read a bit and learn some history before making oh so polite replies.

Kaiser Wilhelm was reluctant to go to war, but felt he had to avoid Germany being surrounded by allies of England and France. This had been one of Germany's fears for years before the war broke out. Kaiser Wilhelm also feared being labeled as unpatriotic by the hawks in his military and government.

It is strange the way Europe stumbled into the war. The 19th century had been a relatively peaceful one for Europe. The 20th century certainly was not. Let us pray the 21st century will be a peaceful one for all.

In fear of being surrounded by the might of Russia and France, Germany had put into being the Schlieffen Plan in response to the events that had occurred in Sarajevo in June 1914. By doing this, the German military hierarchy had doomed Belgium to an invasion. Belgium’s neutrality had been guaranteed by Great Britain as far back as 1839. Asquith had a very simple decision to make – but one that would have a cataclysmic impact on British society. He could either turn a blind eye to a war in mainland Europe that might have little impact on Britain if she stood as a neutral. Or the British public could see Asquith as the man who stood up to the perceived bullying of Germany and who stood for righteousness and decency. A future Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, described the scene in London in the hours that led to the declaration of war.

“It was eleven o’clock at night – twelve by German time – when the ultimatum expired. The windows of the Admiralty were thrown wide open in the warm night air. Under the roof from which Nelson had received his orders were gathered a small group of admirals and captains and a cluster of clerks, pencils in hand, waiting. Along the Mall from the direction of the Palace the sound of an immense concourse singing ‘God save the King’ flouted in. On this deep wave there broke the chimes of Big Ben; and, as the first stroke of the hour boomed out, a rustle of movement swept across the room. The war telegram, which meant, “Commence hostilities against Germany”, was flashed to the ships and establishments under the White Ensign all over the world. I walked across the Horse Guards Parade to the Cabinet room and reported to the Prime Minister and the Ministers who were assembled there that the deed was done.”

While Churchill seemed to indicate that there was a general expectation for war in Britain, records show that this may not have been reciprocated in Germany. Kaiser Wilhelm II said as it became clear that Germany planned to invade France:

“With heavy heart I have been compelled to mobilise my army against a neighbour at whose side it has fought on many a battlefield. With genuine sorrow do I witness the end of a friendship, which Germany loyally cherished. We draw the sword with a clean conscience and clean hands.”

His views seemed to be supported by the Chancellor Bethmann Hollweg when he addressed the Reichstag on the day war was declared:

“Gentlemen, we are now in a state of necessity, and necessity knows no law! Our troops have occupied Luxemburg and perhaps are already on Belgium soil. Gentlemen, this is contrary to the dictates of international law. The wrong – I speak openly – that we are committing we will endeavour to make good as soon as our military goal has been reached. Anybody who is threatened, as we are threatened, and is fighting for his highest possessions can have only one thought – how he is to hack his way through.”

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/britain_war_declaration_1914.htm

 

[Matt Black]

From what I understood we had a non-interventionist platform prior to 1917. The Germans sinking the Lusitania, and the Sussex caused some to want to declare war, but when we found out there were German subs probing the East Coast, that was the last straw.

Don't forget the Zimmerman Telegram too.

I remember there was one of these historical debate shows on television a few years back, you know, the sort where a panel of eminent historians debate the whys and wherefores of WWI in front of a live studio audience of 'ordinary people' . A couple of times the 'incident at Sarajevo involving Franz Ferdinand' was cited by them as the trigger for the war's outbreak, without going into detail of said 'incident'; they then went on to describe the great suffering and loss of life in the war and how it led pretty inevitably to WWII, the Russian and Chinese Revolutions, Vietnam, Cold War etc, with all the attendant loss of life and suffering involved there too. Eventually, this guy in the audience who was getting more and more agitated, stood up and shouted, "That Franz Ferdinand's got a lot to answer for: someone should've shot 'im!"

There was a stunned silence on the panel....

 

[Crabtownboy]

Don't forget the Zimmerman Telegram too.

In my opinion the Zimmermann telegram was a rather despert, long shot gambit by Germany. Mexico was smart enough to simply ignore the offer. It probably took the Mexican government about 30 seconds to see there was no good future if they took up Germany's offer.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Don't forget the Zimmerman Telegram too.

....

Obviously, Germany was appealing to the Germans who had emigrated to Mexico in the late 19th century. Vincente Fox is of German descent.

It's why Mexican music has accordions in it.

It's also why some Mexican beers taste like good European lagers.

 

[RLBosley]

Saw this today and thought of this thread. (Sorry it's so large)

 

[Crabtownboy]

What a great analogy. It is so correct in so many ways. Thanks very much for posting this.

Saw this today and thought of this thread. (Sorry it's so large)