worldliness in the church

“23 “for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:” Acts 17:23, NKJV.

Ever notice that Paul used an object lesson?

Now, I never once said that scripture was not sufficient but I wonder, do you simply read scripture in your sermons? If not then aren't you just as guilty as I for using something else, your notes, explanations, illustrations, flyign eagles, etc to preach the word?

 

In that passage Paul was confronting them for their pagan worship! Hardly an object lesson there!

Actually you might say I'm a consumer, or a quality assurance inspector and dont do the preaching myself! I leave that to the pros but I do try to be sure the pros are pro and know scriptural truth!
Soli deo gloria!

 

Does your preacher do more than just read the scriptures?

 

No, the Bible does not need help, but there is no place in Scripture that prohibits it.

When I taught the young ones in SS, I used object lessons all the time or they would not have been able to understand it. If it is all right there, it should be all right anyplace.

Thirty years ago, a guest preacher open-fired with a pistol full of blanks.

Did he have to do that?

No! But to this day I can amost quote every word of his sermon!!! :laugh:

 

So are you saying that us preachers shouldn't use illustrations to drive home a point? We shouldn't tell a joke that puts people at ease and gets them ready to hear the truth of God's Word.

So, I guess by your statement, that we should just get up and read the Word - hard. And maybe loud. Don't take the time to try to relate it to where people aere today - don't try to help them apply it to everyday situations. If the poeple get it, great! If not, too bad!

Not this preacher!

 

Yes, At times he does use a brief illustration, usually to show the need of this world. He preaches expositorially, with multiple biblical additional references. After hearing him for a time one really comes to know the word, for which I am most grateful!

Forgive me, I truly do not mean to criticize but I guess if a pastor shot off a gun in my ears my mind would be so horrified that I too might remember that occasion, but with horror, not greater knowledge of God or His word.
There is such an ignorance of God's word in todays churches and how will this ever be corrected if the word is not preached in its fullness!! Its God and His word that people need to know and hear!
I know that even Paul said to Timothy, 1 Tim 4:6-11.
{The Holy Spirit repeatedly warned of the danger of apostasy through the Scriptures. Those who fall prey will abandon the faith! Professing, nominal christians and unconverted all need to hear the gospel repeatedly and to stand firm and grow in grace! Only by knowing, reading, studying and hearing the word and mastering its contents can a pastor fulfill his mandate!}(notes John McArthur Study Bible NKJV on 1Tim4)
If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. But reject profane and old wives fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness. For bodily exercise profiteth little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and that which is to come. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach.

 

Check out some of the prophets...especially Ezekiel and Jeremiah. They constantly used object lessons to tell the people what God was saying.

I recall the Proverbs using real-life examples to teach us God's truth about life, morality, and wisdom.

If they can do it, why can't we?

 

Reply #1: edited due to humor that was quite funny, but was sure to offend.

Reply #2: same reason.

Reply #3: ditto.

Reply #4: I don't think I'm the only one to think of replies 1-3.

<snicker>

 

Is this expository? I always thought this was topical (or practical)...the addition of biblical references

 

Oh wow, I agree with some OT illustrations that we dont need to use, for sure!
Jeremiah definitely used some great object lessons as instructed by God.
However, I think we're today to follow the instructions for pastors/evangelists given in the NT which are clear, instructive and biblical!

 

He preaches verse by verse, explains, gives multiple varied scriptural support verses. Rather scriptural teaching, excellent!
I know of others who preach this way, as Mark Dever, John McArthur, John Piper and I'm sure some on this forum do the same, thankfully.
I'm sure most preach the way they were taught or by the way of those favorites they've heard. I also love to read the sermons of Charles Spurgeon and Martyn Lloyd-Jones, William Gurnall, J.C. Ryle, Bunyan, Richard Sibbes, and more!

 

I don't mind the Christian flag in the sanctuary as much as I do the American flag. Our last pastor was an ex-chaplain in the army and on patriotic hollidays he used to "post the flag and then have a pledge of allegiance." I think that has no place in the house of God. Take it outside. That would be OK.

 

I don't think you should assume that just because a pastor might use very elaborate object lessons that he is not preaching the word.

One phrase I have heard from many creative pastors is "asking the question." Basically, the concept is that through drama, a video clip, an object lesson, etc a question is presented that the Bible can answer.

My flying eagle was just that. The actual point to be made was not that ceramic eagles do not fly. That was just the question, so to speak. The point was made from scripture and scripture alone.

I'm not saying that every pastor using elaborate illustrations and object lessons is then preaching biblically, but the use of such is not wordly. I think the answer to that question, if the church is being worldly, would be found in where they seek truth.

 

Well, several things factor in also. One is that the world is constantly striving to make inroads into the church and an awareness and battle against that is fought only with the word and a great sensitivity to what is happening in our church at all times!
Another consideration is the age and commitment of the pastor and whether he loves the Lord totally and studies consistently, eager to continue to learn and grow in grace himself. He can only lead others where he has traveled!
Only in the last years have I had both the time and real determination to learn more every day and to fight for truth without compromise and to spend regular diligent devoted time with the Lord, seeking His ways, His truth, knowledge from scripture!
For many years, regrettably now, I was caught up in self interests, family concerns and not reading the very best writings available! Today I treasure these years, granted by the Lord to allow me to draw ever closer! Soli deo gloria!!

 

The two quotes above are examples of the attitude personified by Mister Worldly Wiseman in Bunyan's The Pilgrim's Progress. He lived in the town of Morality. He advised Christian that as long as he obeyed the law, he had nothing to worry about.

And so here, if we're to keep the church pure, we're being advised that as long as we obey the law, we have nothing to worry about. I point this out to show that the perception of worldliness has drifted somewhat among Christians in recent decades. Many in this thread have it narrowed down so much as to say in effect that there is no such thing as worldliness. That it's all in your mind.

Worldliness is anything that is sought, loved or highly esteemed by the world, and it can be summed up in one word, money (the love thereof, more accurately). Wherever one's treasure is, that's where his heart will be.

 

No it wouldn't, but the definition is broader than you realize. The Gentiles (the world) seek those things by which they may be fed and clothed, but we are commanded NOT to seek those things or even take thought for them, but to seek God's kingdom and His righteousness trusting Him to meet our basic needs. (Matt. 6:31-34)

And so you see how deceptive the love of money really is. We're seeking the things we're commanded not to seek all the while thinking we're doing God's will in the process. Who among us would say that seeking one's basic needs is not an honorable, yea a sacred, duty?