worldliness in the church

So then are all things material or enjoyable evil?

(throws TP away...never mind, goes and retrieves it)

 

A little ridiculous yet!

Worldliness is a state of the heart, a divided heart that is not solely commited to God but allows compromise to enter into ones life and practice. No man can serve two masters! Scripture tells us that we are slaves of the one to whom we give our allegiance!

 

The Spirit lusts against the flesh, and the flesh lusts against the Spirit. What a spiritual man desires and enjoys is contrary to what the world desires and enjoys.

A spiritual man does not find joy in worldly amusements.

 

He also came down pretty hard on them for idol worship.

I think we can start dialogues by using others' beliefs or customs as a springboard, and in fact, I recommend it in my ministry; but we can't stay on the springboard. We have to get to the nitty-gritty at some point.

 

This "spiritual man" loves amusement parks and sporting events. I guess you can call me "worldly"

 

I've given you straightforward teaching from God's Word, so your argument is with Him, not me.

But you also made a dogmatic statement about Christ's earthly existence. What I read of Christ is that the world hated Him. I read that He was despised and rejected of men. If you are walking as Christ walked, as you claim that you are, then I will expect to see you treated the same way. But if the world is thinking that Tim is a good ol' boy, a lover of life and just fun to be around, maybe Tim isn't really walking in Christ's steps after all. Judge for yourself.

 

I assume you are making an equivalence between "spiritual man" and walking by the Spirit?

I guess it depends on what is meant by worldly amusements -- I agree that we are in the world but not of it. I find that as time goes by, a lot of movies I would have seen just 2 or 3 yrs. ago, I have no desire to see. But this is all a process of sanctification.

I feel like in these discussions, sometimes sanctification is forgotten. If we are fighting sin in our own strength, we will lose every time.

 

I don't equate good, clean fun with sin!

I assume and hope that Aaron is talking about worldly amusement that is sinful or tempting, such as gambling, movies with a lot explicit sex or violence, crude jokes, lewdness, etc.

 

Defining "the world" is not simple. "God so loved the world," but we are to "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world." Notice that the world is distinguished from the things that are in it.

And what "God so loved" is not the same as what were are to "love not."

One definition I've worked with is that the world is "man organized to disobey God." A man getting drunk alone in his home may be sinning, but it isn't worldliness. A beer joint, on the other hand, is.

If this holds water, worldliness in the church would be doing things in order to resemble those cases where man organizes to disobey God. To make a fellowship hall look like a beer joint, for instance, while only serving root beer!

Running off with the church secretary wouldn't be worldly, but promoting an erotic atmosphere with dress, comments, and music would.

Being rich wouldn't be worldly, but Amway-type pep rallies urging people to seek riches would.

Puppets wouldn't qualify, but a musical performance that appears to an outsider like it crawled up from Hell would. (I say it in love.)

Nothing exhaustive, just some ideas.

 

I agree 100%, there is no need for that mess.

Like Jesus for instance, he didn't have to raise Lazuras before saying he was the ressurection and the life. It would have been no less true with Lazuras still in the grave.

He didn't have to be living water at the well or pick up the cup and say this is my blood. What's with that stuff? :thumbs:

 

Tinytim, so glad you enjoyed the fair! :thumbs:

I do want to nitpick something though - - isn't the "abundant life" the eternal life we have with Jesus, starting at salvaton and after death?

I ask because of this:
Every believer is promised abundant life, but look at the believers who are persecuted, tortured, and/or killed in some parts of the world for their faith. This cannot be the abundant life - it has to be more than just enjoying life, right? Otherwise, these believers lost out.

In many ways, my life got much harder as a believer. I think of abundant life as the eternal life through Christ. So what do you say to this?

 

Pipedude, good post! :thumbs:

 

Not sure I agree with you on that Mex...Too many variables...and God DOES care about our actions just as much as he cares about our attitudes.

 

I've sat through some stuff that I didn't particularly like in a service and still heard a wonderful, thoughful, to the point sermon.

AND I might not need a flying ceramic eagle to get my attention, but the guy a couple of rows up who is always in his day-timer might need the eagle thrown at him.

Lots of what has been talked about here has to do with the service itself -- but church is so much more. It is at the very least a time for those of like beliefs to congregate and fellowship. It is a chance for young mothers to meet other young mothers. It is a chance to play and eat and increase our numbers by reaching out to and inviting in nonbelievers.