worldliness in the church

And Tim, I think you ought to try the red mohawk thingy for 100. I'll come up and take the pix :tongue3:

 

I think I have a pic of Tim with a Red Mohawk.

 

Very good. There is a distinction to be drawn between worldly things, i.e. systems, governments, fraternities, and earthly things, i.e., objects, tools, nature, etc. Confusing these two is the primary error of those who attempt to counter arguments against worldliness with examples of microphones, A/C, and toilet paper.

And Christ got to the bottom of the issue when He said ye cannot serve God and money. The love of money is the root of all evil. People love money because it gives them the power to indulge the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life, 1 John 2:16.

 

"Amusement" was a poor choice of words on my part. I should have said "pleasures." Yet, your definition is still too narrow. When Christ was tempted with the lusts of the flesh, it was to turn stones to bread to satisfy His hunger. (He had been fasting 40 days.) Is there anything in that temptation that we would think of as lewd or violent?

 

Now does this count for worldliness or craziness?

:thumbs:

Keep it up as long as you don't fall off of the roof.

 

That's what I call a shepherd leading his flock... :thumbs:

 

Romans 12:2 says Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will. (NIV)

James tells us that the world judges people based on externals - how they look, how they are dressed, how far up the corporate ladder they are, ect... James writes that God looks on the heart. If we say that that church over there is worldly because they do a puppet show, or have a music concert, or uses illustrations or jokes, are we not judging that church based of the externals of what we can see? Are we not being worldly in that case?

 

I know that I am new here on this board, but I think the major concept to address in regards to worldliness in the church is that we must determine why have we come to church. Did we come to worship God? If we have come to worship God then we have come to give of ourselves to God as we pray, sing, give our tithes and offerrings, study the Word of God, and respond during the time of invitation. A majority of the times churches bring forth worldly entertainment in order to draw the crowds which is in essence a lazy form of evangelism. It is a lot easier to attract people by giving them what they want rather than going to the people outside of the confines of the church take them the message that they need. If churches would follow the Biblical plans for church growth rather than these man made ideas that are based off of business principles, there would be less and less worldiness and entertainment in the church. Worship is all about giving to God, and entertainment is all about receiving something for ourselves. It is not about us, but it is all about God.

 

In some cases this is so. But, there are many times people have the right actions, but, not the right attitude about doing the right thing, or vise, versa. One doesn't always dictate/guaranteee the other.

 

Can someone actually define "worldliness?" I think it has become a term we toss about like "liberal." If we desire to look down on another or give them a negative connotation because we don't prefer what they do, we attach terms like these... how sad.

 

John Bunyan in Pilgrim's Progress says:

"When Christians unto Carnal Men give ear,
Out of their Way they go, and pay for't dear.
For Master Worldly Wiseman can but shew
A Saint the way to Bondage and to Wo!"

The Lord sent us as Saints toward the Strait gate. Diversions cause one to turn their eyes away from the cross, to be occupied with the cares of the world and eventually to prefer it and the 'treasures of Egypt' to the cross.

Reading Pilgrim's Progress gives one a clearer picture of the pitfalls that befall one who strives to enter in via the Strait Gate. Other doctrines we must abhor and cleave to the cross of Christ!

'Worldly' is pretty self defining!
For me it was pretty impressive, humbling and overwhelming when 'Christian' laid his burden down at the foot of the cross! Such a picture of God guiding us and bringing us to Himself!

No one can give you the perfect formula for Christlikeness, outside the bible! No one can say to you, 'eat this, dont eat that,' 'do this, dont do that', except for the guidance of scripture to your heart! Worldliness is a diversion from the path to Christ! Does it bring glory to God and to His name? Often we must pray and search our heart for a long while before we know for sure if something is/is not, glorifying to our Lord!

 

Excellent... while I wholeheartedly agree with your post, Baptists like "black/white" universal responces no matter how complex the issue. The truth to this is the that there is an element of "grayness" to the discussion.

 

Much here seems rather like 'Christianity Lite'. Not a criticism, just an observation that may not even be an accurate reflection of hearts. Still, it is good to question whether we take a majestic, holy God seriously enough and truly come to know Him and what He desires from His people.