richard n koustas
New Member
While we're discussing 'worship', what does this phrase mean?
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Worship - John 4:23
- Thread starter richard n koustas
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Brother Ian
Active Member
It can mean any number of things depending on the context of the passge.
True worship is response to Truth.
True worship is response to Truth.
Salamander
New Member
In spirit and truth, not one without the other: many have lots of truth, but only to the letter of the law that killteh, then others have lots of spirit, and then dance all around the truth.
Balance is therefore the mandate for true worship; that is excatly what Jesus was saying the Samaritan woman. She was out of balance, maritally, spiritually, lawfully.
Balance is therefore the mandate for true worship; that is excatly what Jesus was saying the Samaritan woman. She was out of balance, maritally, spiritually, lawfully.
Salamander
New Member
She worshipped she knew not what, remember: love and adoration may be directed towards God, but if not according to truth, not really towards God at all, but to an ideal of what they think God is.
She had a form of godliness in her worship, but her life denied the power of a changed life. Now if many will take note of that, we'd see some real conversions over many,many professions!!!
She had a form of godliness in her worship, but her life denied the power of a changed life. Now if many will take note of that, we'd see some real conversions over many,many professions!!!
richard n koustas
New Member
Let me ask a different question. do you think that the Father still "seeketh such to worship Him"?
It seems to me that if we have some that believe that "True worship is response to Truth" and nothing more, then the Father may be missing out...not getting the worship due Him. I think that He is still seeking (I also think that we can never worship enough, either)
It seems to me that if we have some that believe that "True worship is response to Truth" and nothing more, then the Father may be missing out...not getting the worship due Him. I think that He is still seeking (I also think that we can never worship enough, either)
It's a "problem" passage if we take the approach that God who is omni-everything seems to be out in the world looking for someone to worship Him.
But it is we who have the "problem", just like the woman at the well who was looking to worship in all the wrong places. Or like Adam who hid himself.
Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
The "calling" was for Adam's benefit not God's
Jesus is the way to the Father to worship Him in Spirit and truth.
John 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
So, yes, while time exists, He still seeks those who will come.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
But it is we who have the "problem", just like the woman at the well who was looking to worship in all the wrong places. Or like Adam who hid himself.
Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
The "calling" was for Adam's benefit not God's
Jesus is the way to the Father to worship Him in Spirit and truth.
John 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
So, yes, while time exists, He still seeks those who will come.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 4:21-24 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
I think the emphasis of this text is not so much that we need the truth (Bible) and Spirit (Holy Spirit) to worship correctly. Yes we do, but primarily Jesus here is correcting a misconception that the woman had. She thought worship revolved around a specific place, the Samaritan temple. Jesus says that Jerusalem was actually the place, BUT all that was changing very soon.
The physical types were coming into their fulfillment. The OT way of worship (temple, sacrifices, rituals) was representative of "true, spiritual" worship--NT worship.And God was even then beginning this time of transition--seeking "true worshippers", even among the Samaritans.
So "true worship" according to John 4, means worship which is centered around spiritual things rather than the physical representations of them.(see Heb. 9:24)
I think the emphasis of this text is not so much that we need the truth (Bible) and Spirit (Holy Spirit) to worship correctly. Yes we do, but primarily Jesus here is correcting a misconception that the woman had. She thought worship revolved around a specific place, the Samaritan temple. Jesus says that Jerusalem was actually the place, BUT all that was changing very soon.
The physical types were coming into their fulfillment. The OT way of worship (temple, sacrifices, rituals) was representative of "true, spiritual" worship--NT worship.And God was even then beginning this time of transition--seeking "true worshippers", even among the Samaritans.
So "true worship" according to John 4, means worship which is centered around spiritual things rather than the physical representations of them.(see Heb. 9:24)
Dunamis XX
New Member
John MacArthur did a series of messages on True Worship - you can find it at www.biblebb.com/macsg.htm - it is listed under "worship"