Yes sir, he most definitely would be allowed to give his testimony, we would love for him do so.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Worship Songs
- Thread starter JonC
- Start date
Yes sir, he most definitely would be allowed to give his testimony, we would love for him do so.
When I go to a Church service I see it as presenting myself before the Lord in faith, honoring Him as my Savior.
It's not a social thing for me, although I do socialize with the Brethren.
But first and foremost I am presenting myself before the Lord with respect.
I am still curious (I do not know why you are evasive) -
Suits and ties have been the worldly standard for material wealth and secular power for centuries. Suits are alsoa worldly sign of respect (e.g, the criticism of Zelenskyy when he did not wear a suit to the White House).
Do you believe it appropriate for men to wear suits to church?
It seems, from an outsider, that what you value is not separation from the world in how Christians dress but instead a separation from the appearance of the worldly upper class.
The same goes with music. It appears- from the outside - that what you seek is not a separation from the worldly but a worldly idea of elite music (along with the same theme of dressing in the way of the worldly upper class - those in power over the world).
That is why I ask.
Would you object to a man coming to your church wearing a suit and tie, knowing that this is the traditional worldly sign of secular power and material wealth?
What is wrong with you, Jon, you know better than this.
The outer appearance reflects the inner, it's about respect, humbling ones self.
I don't always wear a suit and tie to Church. But may appearance is well within the bounds of respect for our Lord.
I'm beginning to think you have no idea of what I'm expressing.
@Charlie24
It appears that your objection boils down to two things:
1. Your personal preferences.
You sing in a way that is a product of worldly music (specifically Western music, music using harmony and syandardized meter). You use worldly musical instruments - instruments that are also used in rock music. But you do not prefer the style other people use to worship God so you declare God rejects it.
2. Racism.
Not your racism but old racist propaganda designed to prevent "Black" culture from influencing "White" culture. This is the origin of the "rock beat" complaint.
Originally it was claimed that Africans used this beat in their music to elicit immoral (typically sexual) behavior and to worship demons in their rituals. The claim was thar Satan is using this to corrupt the White youth.
Obviously this is rarely believed today as it was blatantly false. Christians worshipped using those "African beats" long before traditional hymnal music wss developed (Africa was Christian long before Christianity came to European White folk).
It boils down to you judging other people by your own standards, your own preferences, and your own prejudices.
My intent is not to change your worship style. You should worship in spirit and truth. I trust you do and encourage you to continue worshipping God. Sing those hymns. Play that piano and organ.
My intent is to voice what I have to voice in obedience to God - and that to declare your judgment against other believers, other children of God, wrong. It is akin to racism and elitism. It is worldly at its core and has absolutely no place in the heart of a believer.
It appears that your objection boils down to two things:
1. Your personal preferences.
You sing in a way that is a product of worldly music (specifically Western music, music using harmony and syandardized meter). You use worldly musical instruments - instruments that are also used in rock music. But you do not prefer the style other people use to worship God so you declare God rejects it.
2. Racism.
Not your racism but old racist propaganda designed to prevent "Black" culture from influencing "White" culture. This is the origin of the "rock beat" complaint.
Originally it was claimed that Africans used this beat in their music to elicit immoral (typically sexual) behavior and to worship demons in their rituals. The claim was thar Satan is using this to corrupt the White youth.
Obviously this is rarely believed today as it was blatantly false. Christians worshipped using those "African beats" long before traditional hymnal music wss developed (Africa was Christian long before Christianity came to European White folk).
It boils down to you judging other people by your own standards, your own preferences, and your own prejudices.
My intent is not to change your worship style. You should worship in spirit and truth. I trust you do and encourage you to continue worshipping God. Sing those hymns. Play that piano and organ.
My intent is to voice what I have to voice in obedience to God - and that to declare your judgment against other believers, other children of God, wrong. It is akin to racism and elitism. It is worldly at its core and has absolutely no place in the heart of a believer.
Ascetic X
Active Member
I do not see how a suit and tie humbles anyone.
While I like to dress up for church, I doubt that the audiences of the sermons of Jesus got all dressed up to hear Him. Many probably arrived dressed in their work clothes, as shepherds or other manual labor jobs.
I do not see dressing up as humbling myself, but I do see it as showing respect for the house of God.
Wearing a suit and tie might even be a display of wealth, social status and pride, not humbling. Usually, it seems to me to just be respectful though.
While I like to dress up for church, I doubt that the audiences of the sermons of Jesus got all dressed up to hear Him. Many probably arrived dressed in their work clothes, as shepherds or other manual labor jobs.
I do not see dressing up as humbling myself, but I do see it as showing respect for the house of God.
Wearing a suit and tie might even be a display of wealth, social status and pride, not humbling. Usually, it seems to me to just be respectful though.
Here you go, Jon, this is how I normally dress for Church. Notice the facial hair, I don't assist in the services so I have, or had at that time some facial hair. I have never cared for ties, but at times I wear one.
???
I know that wearing a suit and tie is worldly. The world wears suits and ties. I know that for centuries it has been a sign of secular power and material wealth. The world still views suits and ties (and now sports voats and ties) with material wealth and worldly power.
The outter appearance reflects the inner. So a man wearing a suit to church is full of worldly pride? That is why he chooses to dress in a way the world associates with secular power and wealth???
I know exactly what you are expressing. As a Christian I find it offensive.
You are not talking about separation in terms of dress (although you phrase it that way). You are talking about choosing worldly dress that projects worldly power (whether wealth or position).
I like the look. It suits your (and my) age. Loosing the tie makes it business casual. That's how I dresses when I wore a suit.
BUT I was not criticizing wearing a suit. I was saying it is not a separation from the world but copying the world.
The world shifted to wearing a suit without a tie to appear more casual (especially in politics, but also among celebrities).
Here is another example:
Is that why some employers require a suit and tie for a job interview? For worldly pride?
For worldly power (the world views wearing a suit as a sign of respect - they are concerned about what is outside, not the heart).
That was the complaint when Zelenskyy showed up not wearing a suit. It was seen as disrespecting a world power.
But typically in a job interview suits are not worn. The rule of thumb is to dress one position higher than the position being sought (it shows initiative).
Times have changed brother.
This is considered executive dress (sorry if it makes you feel old...but I am right there with you) -
Personally I believe the Lord deserves the best we can afford.
I have several suits I've bought through the years, average price $300.
This is an excellent point.
While I do not mind wearing a suit snd tie (not me wearing it.... I would wear what @Charlie24 posted.... no tie...I hate things around my neck) this is a questionable practice.
We are commanded to dress modestly. The word means humbly, not a sign of power or wealth. What pleases God is the "inner self".
(See 1 Peter 3, 1 Tim 2).
The young man singing Amazing Grace is actually faithful to Scripture in his dress while wearing a suit may be questionable.
When I was growing up women wore dresses, gold or pearl necklaces, earrings...and men wore nice suits. Reading the Bible it is impossible to see that this could easily be a disobedience in how we are commanded to dress.
I would not discourage people wearing suits, earrings, necklaces, nice dresses, etc. But I would not be faithful to God's Word to go without pointing out this is not how we are instructed to dress.
You can't humble youself to something you don't respect.
They work together, respect and humility in presenting yourself before the Lord.
Jon, I could be mistaken here, but I remember someone saying, (thinking it was you) they wear shorts and t-shirt to Church.
But what does the Bible say?
I am not opposed to wearing suits. I am not opposed to women wearing dresses, earrings and recklessness.
But there are passages instructing Christians not to "dress up". Instead their dress was to be common, God judging not from outward appearance but the inner spirit. (1 Pet 3, 1 Tim 2).
I mean...they were commanded to dress in a common, humble way. They were commanded not to "dress up"
What do we do with that?
I don't know. I cannot bring myself to condemn a man for wearing a $300 suit to church....but at the same time it at least appears that God commands against it.
BTW....the guy in the video you called blasphemous for his clothes was dressed biblically (modest clothes, head covered). His clothes were actually nice, but not pretentious.
But you are judging by the standards of the world (by outward appearance) and viewing respect via a worldly standard (wearing a suit).
The two passages I provided tell us to dress commonly, not to wear costly clothes, jewlery, etc.
I do not know how to view those verses except as a direct condemnation of what you have been preaching here. I am not actually doing that because I see nothing wrong with men wearing suits or women wearing earrings.
BUT this is probably wrong of me as those two passages command us to dress as the common man rather than "dressing up".
So......(thinking as I type)..... I was wrong not to point out that it is disobedient to "dress up" for church. At least twice we are commanded not to do so.
Our pastor tell new members to honor the Lord with the best they have, show respect to the One who gave Himself for you.
Our pastor does not enforce a dress code, he leaves that to conviction of the soul and heart.
Oh...I agree with that. Honor God by GIVING your best (not by wearing your best clothes as this is in violation of God's command).
Maybe it would be good for those accustomed to wearing costly clothes and jewelry to sell those things and give the money to God while also being obedient in how they dress.
Do you believe those two passages instructing Christians to dress modestly and not wear their best is correct or do you believe your pastor is correct when he tells his congregation to wear the best they own?