Worship Wars?

[Armchair Apologist]

I don't think it's a matter of whether or not certain instruments are devilish, but why they are being played. If an instrument is being played to aid the congregation as it sings hymns, fine, but if any instrument is being played as part of a "performance" to be watched, listened too, clapped, etc. by the congregation, the that is not, in my view, worship.

But it certainly was the focus among certain "Fundamental Baptists" I was running back in the 80s and 90s!

Drums and syncopated beats were bad, bad, bad and was used to conjure up demons! Remember this?

I guess I went to the other "extreme" for a while but now have come around full circle focusing on what truly matters. I do not believe our churches should be turned into "Concert Halls" with fog machines and laser light shows. Also, if the "Worship" team is so loud that you cannot hear yourself sing, this is a problem plus one really needs to take a good hard look at how many "Excuse themselves" from the auditorium during the music and then come back in when it is time for the preaching.

I don't think that all music has to be "Worship" though. Not all hymns out of the hymnbook are worship. Some songs are didactic in nature while others serve to exhort and encourage which is where toe-tapping and hand-clapping songs come in. We shouldn't be trying to turn everything into "Worship" nor should we make worship synonymous with music!

And some of my favorite singing of all is acapella right out of a hymnbook.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Nothing infuriates me more than a church to capitulate to a snot nosed 20 something who has the title of “minister of music” or whatever

He knows nothing about worship unless he has studied diligently

I wouldn't blame the snot-nosed 20-something but the church leadership that put him in such a position to begin with!

 

[Aaron]

"You really do not know what you are losing here and worse yet, you will never get it back!

Yup.

 

[Ascetic X]

From Got Questions:

In the Bible, the Hebrew word translated as “worship” is shachah and literally denotes the act of bowing down.

The Greek word proskuneō, rendered as “worship,” means “to encounter God and praise Him.”

Both terms seem to define worship as an activity or an action.

However, an accurate depiction of biblical worship extends beyond mere activity.

A better, more comprehensive definition of worship can be summarized in this statement: “Worship is the reverential response of creation to the all-encompassing magnificence of God” (McCaulley, E., “Worship,” Lexham Theological Wordbook, ed. Douglas Mangum et al., Lexham Press, 2014).

Everything we say and do should be an act of worship before God.

A simplified definition of worship can be stated as a continual heart attitude of bowing down in reverence and humility before the supreme Lord and Creator of the universe. Worship is the heartbeat of the believer’s existence, a lifelong celebration of the worthiness of God. To worship is to respond with one’s whole being in adoration, exaltation, humble submission, and obedience to God.

The apostle Paul also defined worship as an all-encompassing way of life: “Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship” (Romans 12:1).

 

[JonC]

@Armchair Apologist

I like what @Ascetic X posted.

“to encounter God and praise Him.”

Anyway... the "worship war" is one sided.

The only ones who wage war against Christians are those who are "stuck" in a tradition that was once attacked by "conservative" Christians. The victim has become the abuser.

It is one sided because those of us who encounter God and praise Him in spirit and truth through contemporary worship music (or wearing casual clothes) are not attacking brethern who use traditional hymns (and wear older business attire).

 

[Aaron]

@Armchair Apologist

I like what @Ascetic X posted.

“to encounter God and praise Him.”

Anyway... the "worship war" is one sided.

The only ones who wage war against Christians are those who are "stuck" in a tradition that was once attacked by "conservative" Christians. The victim has become the abuser.

It is one sided because those of us who encounter God and praise Him in spirit and truth through contemporary worship music (or wearing casual clothes) are not attacking brethern who use traditional hymns (and wear older business attire).

That's all for your closet.

In corporate worship, there is an order and a decorum to be maintained.

 

[Aaron]

It is one sided because those of us who encounter God and praise Him in spirit and truth through contemporary worship music (or wearing casual clothes) are not attacking brethern who use traditional hymns (and wear older business attire).

Who cares about your personal experience? How is that authoritative? What occurs in corporate worship, should be universal. It's the Scriptures that hold authority, not your feelings.

Where music is concerned, the same rules apply to feasting. It's not your appetite that matters.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

@Armchair Apologist

I like what @Ascetic X posted.

“to encounter God and praise Him.”

And I would completely agree with such a succinct definition. I dislike making any sort of music as being synonymous with "worship."

Anyway... the "worship war" is one sided.

If you want to stick primarily with "Ascetic X's definition, then of course but I entitled the thread as "Worship Wars" because this phrase is commonly used as pertaining to the "Traditional vs. Contemporarary" musical styles employed in church services and thus being referred to as "worship." We do have the two factions battling it out but we can also point out the fact that both are clearly wrong when it is about our own preferences rather than glorifying God in sincerity and truth! It does both sides good to remember this!

The only ones who wage war against Christians are those who are "stuck" in a tradition that was once attacked by "conservative" Christians. The victim has become the abuser.

It is one sided because those of us who encounter God and praise Him in spirit and truth through contemporary worship music (or wearing casual clothes) are not attacking brethern who use traditional hymns (and wear older business attire).

I'd say it is both sides now that are becoming "Legalistic Bullies" regarding their particular styles of worship! Seriously. Sometimes it is best to put my Stratocaster back on its stand, turn off that expensive PA system, open up a hymnal, and start singing together just like Paul and Silas did!

 

[Ascetic X]

And I would completely agree with such a succinct definition. I dislike making any sort of music as being synonymous with "worship."

If you want to stick primarily with "Ascetic X's definition, then of course but I entitled the thread as "Worship Wars" because this phrase is commonly used as pertaining to the "Traditional vs. Contemporarary" musical styles employed in church services and thus being referred to as "worship." We do have the two factions battling it out but we can also point out the fact that both are clearly wrong when it is about our own preferences rather than glorifying God in sincerity and truth! It does both sides good to remember this!

I'd say it is both sides now that are becoming "Legalistic Bullies" regarding their particular styles of worship! Seriously. Sometimes it is best to put my Stratocaster back on its stand, turn off that expensive PA system, open up a hymnal, and start singing together just like Paul and Silas did!

Many churches now have a contemporary service at 9 am and a traditional service at 10 am, so people can attend the service that best suits their preferences. I prefer traditional services. I listen to some contemporary Christian music on the radio, but do not like it when it sounds too similar to worldly rock music. Hymns are typically very rich in doctrine.

The song “Testify To Love” by Avalon has now been redone to be an LGBTQ anthem, which is disgustingly. CCM is starting to go gay!

LGBTQ+ Community Embraces Rerelease of Avalon's ‘Testify to Love' From Founding Member Who Says He Was Ousted for Being Gay

Michael Passons, founding member of the CCM group Avalon, has rereleased the group's hit "Testify to Love" along with Ty Herndon and Melissa Greene.

churchleaders.com

 

[Ascetic X]

And I would completely agree with such a succinct definition. I dislike making any sort of music as being synonymous with "worship."

If you want to stick primarily with "Ascetic X's definition, then of course but I entitled the thread as "Worship Wars" because this phrase is commonly used as pertaining to the "Traditional vs. Contemporarary" musical styles employed in church services and thus being referred to as "worship." We do have the two factions battling it out but we can also point out the fact that both are clearly wrong when it is about our own preferences rather than glorifying God in sincerity and truth! It does both sides good to remember this!

I'd say it is both sides now that are becoming "Legalistic Bullies" regarding their particular styles of worship! Seriously. Sometimes it is best to put my Stratocaster back on its stand, turn off that expensive PA system, open up a hymnal, and start singing together just like Paul and Silas did!

My wife and I attended a Baptist church for a while and decided to take the new members class. In the syllabus, there was only one page on the new birth, but 8 pages on “music the pastor likes”. For him, Steve Green was too wild. We did not remain at that church for very long.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Many churches now have a contemporary service at 9 am and a traditional service at 10 am, so people can attend the service that best suits their preferences. I prefer traditional services. I listen to some contemporary Christian music on the radio, but do not like it when it sounds too similar to worldly rock music. Hymns are typically very rich in doctrine.

The song “Testify To Love” by Avalon has now been redone to be an LGBTQ anthem, which is disgustingly. CCM is starting to go gay!

LGBTQ+ Community Embraces Rerelease of Avalon's ‘Testify to Love' From Founding Member Who Says He Was Ousted for Being Gay

Michael Passons, founding member of the CCM group Avalon, has rereleased the group's hit "Testify to Love" along with Ty Herndon and Melissa Greene.

churchleaders.com

I don't mean to knock you here or disparage your church but I would say that churches having separate "Contemporary" and "Traditional" services are effectively two separate congregations and it is silly that the two congregations are split over music preferences! If I were to talk to your church leadership, I would counsel them to find a spiritual solid ground regarding worship and UNIFY their congregation around this! I believer there is some really good "contemporary" stuff that could be incorporated into a song service and may God help our upcoming generations if they do not know what a hymnbook is or that they are unable to pick out "parts" (SATB) when doing congregational singing!

There is a good bit of what I would consider good Contemporary Christain Music on my Pandora playlist but there is much of it that I would never want to be performed in a church (concert hall, maybe) and I absolutely detest K-LOVE for many different reasons.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

My wife and I attended a Baptist church for a while and decided to take the new members class. In the syllabus, there was only one page on the new birth, but 8 pages on “music the pastor likes”. For him, Steve Green was too wild. We did not remain at that church for very long.

I couldn't stay there either! eight pages on music and hardly one that covers doctrine?

Who cares what a pastor's preferences are? If he wants to make a scriptural argument regarding the direction their church is taking, this is one thing but there are so many more things aside from music.

 

[Ascetic X]

I don't mean to knock you here or disparage your church but I would say that churches having separate "Contemporary" and "Traditional" services are effectively two separate congregations and it is silly that the two congregations are split over music preferences! If I were to talk to your church leadership, I would counsel them to find a spiritual solid ground regarding worship and UNIFY their congregation around this! I believer there is some really good "contemporary" stuff that could be incorporated into a song service and may God help our upcoming generations if they do not know what a hymnbook is or that they are unable to pick out "parts" (SATB) when doing congregational singing!

There is a good bit of what I would consider good Contemporary Christain Music on my Pandora playlist but there is much of it that I would never want to be performed in a church (concert hall, maybe) and I absolutely detest K-LOVE for many different reasons.

Since I was a teenager, until 2 years ago, I performed art rock, then techno music, with many synthesizers, had a band that played all over New York City, etc. I was obsessed with wild, weird, experimental music and extreme radical art.

I think I went so far overboard that I now am completely burned out on music. I prefer silence or gentle sweet Christian music.

You have a valid point about not splitting the services into contemporary and traditional, but I like the separate services idea. Mostly young people go to the contemporary services and mostly older folks go to the traditional services. This way, nobody has to grimly tolerate music they do not like.

I have deeper issues with church. I just cannot get used to sitting passively in a hard pew, listen to announcements, shake hands with other pew sitters, stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down, pass a collection plate, listen to a lecture, say a group prayer, take communion, go home.

I get almost nothing from such rigid routines. I greatly prefer small men’s groups, prayer meetings, and Bible studies, where people can interact, ask questions, share testimonies, give praise reports, and express personal concerns.

 

[JonC]

And I would completely agree with such a succinct definition. I dislike making any sort of music as being synonymous with "worship."

If you want to stick primarily with "Ascetic X's definition, then of course but I entitled the thread as "Worship Wars" because this phrase is commonly used as pertaining to the "Traditional vs. Contemporarary" musical styles employed in church services and thus being referred to as "worship." We do have the two factions battling it out but we can also point out the fact that both are clearly wrong when it is about our own preferences rather than glorifying God in sincerity and truth! It does both sides good to remember this!

I'd say it is both sides now that are becoming "Legalistic Bullies" regarding their particular styles of worship! Seriously. Sometimes it is best to put my Stratocaster back on its stand, turn off that expensive PA system, open up a hymnal, and start singing together just like Paul and Silas did!

Maybe in some areas there is an anti-traditional music movement. I just have not seen it.

Same with traditional music people of yesterday. I have not read of traditional hymn people of the past condemning the more solemn psalm guys that condemned our traditional hymns.

I have seen people opposed to using a paino, but not people insisting a paino must be used.

 

[Marooncat79]

Worship is not about my preferences

Its about what God commands and what He wants

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I haven't been here too long so forgive me if this topic hasn't been beat into the ground yet. Perhaps this would be a good diversion from debating Calvinism and PSA? I think we could use a good break here and find a topic upon which we could really pick a fight?

What about worship (music) styles employed in your church? What would be considered acceptable or unacceptable? Are drums of the devil? Could I do some "slappy da bass" without having my salvation questioned? What if I was to turn up the gain on my Ibanez Tube Screamer and do a blistering solo on my Fender Stratocaster? Would you call me an "unregenerate devil" for bringing the Devil's music into the Lord's house? Please don't do it, I don't want to see you get banned or anything!

What would be acceptable and where would you draw the line? If somebody drew a line at what is and what is not acceptable, would you call them a legalist?

Is it ever acceptable to use anything other than a piano, organ, and hymnals for congregational singing? How old does a Gaither song have to be before we stop calling it "Contemporary Christian Music?" Should we stick to hymns that are 200 years old or older? Should we sing only from the Psalter? Should we just ban all instruments and sing "Acapulco?"

Should we refrain from any clapping, foot tapping, finger snapping, or "sliding" our notes? No swaying either! We are Baptists here after all! Dancing is of the devil!

Let the fight begin!

I categorically reject any and all use of rock music and rock-based music, etc. in worship. My church does not use any such music.

I do not believe that all drums are of the devil, but it is undeniable that some drums are (human skull drums, drums with drumheads glued with human blood, and more).

If you believe that all kinds of instrumental music are acceptable to God for use in worship, why do you believe that and what Bible evidence do you have to support your views?