You are twisting our stated motive in order to prove your own beliefs. We are willing to take the life of another out of love for our loved ones whom they seek to harm. There is a marked difference between hate-filled murder & defense of one's family. If you are incapable of understanding the difference between the two, then there is nothing we can say to make you understand.
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Would A Christian been justified To shoot the Joker killer?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
You are twisting our stated motive in order to prove your own beliefs. We are willing to take the life of another out of love for our loved ones whom they seek to harm. There is a marked difference between hate-filled murder & defense of one's family. If you are incapable of understanding the difference between the two, then there is nothing we can say to make you understand.
How do you deal with the shepherd boy, David----who "Shot" Goliath---albeat not with a firearm but with something just as lethel??????????
:flower::saint:
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
As adamant as I am about the issue, I've decided not to argue it anymore. Those who wish to remain ignorant will do so, regardless of the pointing out of the scripture taken out of context, the command to protect our family and be a good steward, and the difference between vengeance/retaliation and self defense.
I've said what I had to say.
To the OP, yes, a Christian would have absolutely been justified to shoot him, and there is nothing in the Bible that says otherwise.
I've said what I had to say.
To the OP, yes, a Christian would have absolutely been justified to shoot him, and there is nothing in the Bible that says otherwise.
Hooah, soldier.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Did Goliath break into David's home and threaten his family?
No, Goliath was in the Philistine army and they were at war with the Israelites.
Big difference.
Now I truly do not understand your position.
It's okay to kill if you're at war and someone is threatening you with violence; but not if someone breaks into your home and threatens you and your family with violence?
You continually fall back to a position of "show where Jesus told us to kill others in defense"; well, show where God told David to kill Goliath. I can't find it; but as has been shown to you, God did give us instructions that if you smite a thief and he dies, there will be no blood shed for the thief.
So is it okay to kill or not? Or is it situational?
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
You look again; where did God tell David, who at the time was considered to be too young to be among Saul's military, to go kill someone?
I ran across a piece, written a few years ago, about high profile folks who were anti-gun champions. It was wrong to kill, even if self defense or to defend others. Very much opposed to carrying a gun or owning one.
While speaking out to ban guns, their body guards were armed to kill, if need be, to protect them from harm.
Their lives were so important that they hired people to tote guns for them, while "preaching" that others should die rather than defend themselves.
Robert Snow
New Member
Silly Fred, if you saw someone attempting to kidnap a child walking home from school, would you do all you could to stop them or simply tell the kidnapper how much you loved them?
Doesn't this fall under "the Greater good?", as Christians are indeed taught topray for those who misuse you, treat evil with good etc... BUT
The highest good is to perserve and save life?
Didn't the Angel of the Lord smote down all first born in Egypt, and another kill off 100,000 soldier in one night, in order to "protect" the lives of the isrealites?
Didn't the Lord shoot something worse than bullets at Sodom?
Fred's lofty beliefs only exist in the ethereal world of ideology. He has refused to discuss how he would act in an actual life-threatening situation. Fred thinks God cares enough for him (more than for the rest of us?) to keep his family out of such danger.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
At least I don't think "do good to those that persecute you" means "shoot those who are threatening you."
Please answer this simple question, which we have been trying to get you to answer. What would you do if someone attempted to attack, rape, kill, etc your wife or children right in front of you? What would YOU do?
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
First and foremost, I would try to diffuse the situation through the witnessing of Christ to him/them.
I do not own a gun. I will not own a gun. I will not bring a gun into my house. God does not call us to return violence for violence. Jesus said do good to them that persecute you.
they get killed while you are kneeling there praying to God to spare them, and they ask God why he did not help them, He replies that he did, as her husband was there but refused to save her!
Again taken out of context and misapplied.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
My family is saved, so I highly doubt they would ask God why I did not save them.
More than likely, they will be praising the Savior who gave them eternal life.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
not taken out of context at all. and not misapplied at all.
Do good can only mean one thing... do good.
to them that persecute you can only mean one thing... to them that persecute you.
Misapplied because you overlook the actual meaning of the passage you refer to.
You've correctly identified it before: Jesus is speaking against revenge and vengeance ("an eye for an eye"). But then you somehow turn this to mean that if you slap a mosquito for biting you, you're taking vengeance on the mosquito. You somehow turn "persecution because we are Christians" into "breaking into someone's house to steal and/or kill."
The kind of mentality Jesus was preaching against is still prevalent in the Middle East today; in fact, a common saying is "If you wait 100 years to exact revenge upon your enemy, you're still going too fast."
There is absolutely NOTHING in the Bible that says defense is the same as vengeance/revenge. In fact, the Bible says the opposite. In the Old Testament laws that provide the guideline for how to judge someone who has killed a thief breaking into his house--given to us by the same God who said "turn the other cheek"--He has told us there is no blood required.
This doesn't mean we can go looking for thieves to kill; that would be murder. But it does say that if someone is breaking into your house, and you kill them--it's not "okay," but it's not punishable.