Would God command men to do something they were unable to do?

[reformedbeliever]

You don't believe its the duty of a Christian to strive towards perfection as Paul did when he prayed for the thorn to be removed. I wonder all the time why do you all evangelize when you don't believe man can do what you are going out and asking him to do and that is to turn to Jesus and believe. Surely you ask people to believe in Jesus? We won't reach perfection in this life but I assure you that we will in the resurrection if you have been "born again" and have the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwelling in you.

Of course, I'm not hyper calvinist.

 

[reformedbeliever]

I didn't mean in this life. I meant we would eventually get to Heaven, If I am going to Heaven then I am not dead anymore but alive in Christ Jesus. Man, you all sure hold on to that dead man stuff. Man is not a log floating down the stream. You all don't believe a man can do anything just float along through this life and whatever happens then it happens. Well I am one who believes God holds man accountable for what he does in this life and the only thing you have to offer God is the kind of life you live. "Offer your bodies a living sacrifice, which is your reasonable service". I love Jesus because He first loved me, well it does say "I love Jesus" son give me a little credit will you. Oh, I forgot, you believe God makes you love Him too.

Another dishonest misrepresentation. Is that what you have to revert to when you do not want to honestly answer a question? Do you believe one can be perfect in this life, as Jesus commanded? I'll bet you dance all around that question just as you have in the past.

 

[npetreley]

Another dishonest misrepresentation. Is that what you have to revert to when you do not want to honestly answer a question? Do you believe one can be perfect in this life, as Jesus commanded? I'll bet you dance all around that question just as you have in the past.

Oh, come on. Give him the credit he asked for. That's what free-willism is all about, anyway.

 

[webdog]

Oh, come on. Give him the credit he asked for. That's what free-willism is all about, anyway.

And you guys have the nerve to say we misrepresent what you believe?

 

[npetreley]

And you guys have the nerve to say we misrepresent what you believe?

I should have put a smiley there, but that was not representing (or misrepresenting) what you believe. It's an opinion about why you believe it. It is (almost) the last resort of pride. "I may not be able to take credit for earning my salvation, but at least I can say I was [smart, wise, whatever] enough to choose it.

I say "almost" last resort because I have only recently been made aware of kingdom salvation, or whatever it's called. That's a new twist on the same theme, IMO.

 

[reformedbeliever]

And you guys have the nerve to say we misrepresent what you believe?

Aren't you one who would say that God would not command us to do something we can not do?

 

[webdog]

Aren't you one who would say that God would not command us to do something we can not do?

If God requres it...He supplies the means to attain it.

 

[Brother Bob]

He commanded us to be perfect and you better strive towards it as Paul did. You will not completely get there until the resurrection outwardly but we sure do our best. I hope you do too. And if you ask me again do I believe we are perfect in this life then I will know that you are not reading my posts.

Amen, Webdog you are right on the mark.

 

[EdSutton]

Why does all this thread somehow remind me of 'Bible College Rule #3'?

"Never let the Bible interfere with your theology!" :thumbup: , again!

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

I guess it is the last post ED! YOURS

 

[reformedbeliever]

He commanded us to be perfect and you better strive towards it as Paul did. You will not completely get there until the resurrection outwardly but we sure do our best. I hope you do too. And if you ask me again do I believe we are perfect in this life then I will know that you are not reading my posts.

Amen, Webdog you are right on the mark.

Then you can't do it in this life huh? As a matter of fact, you can't do it period. It is all God's work. I know that will violate your pride, and your sense of synergism, but its the truth.

 

[Allan]

Ummmm......... lets see......... did God say that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? What is the glory of God? Perfection. We fall short. I believe the bible, not your logic.

Ummmm...lets see... Did God not say to believers "Be ye Holy AS I am Holy." Reformed - it appears that unless YOU are living up to that excact Holiness of God you are in a state, nay lifestyle of willfull sin. God has asked you to do something that you should be able to do without fail since you have Christ, the Holy Spirit and a new nature, right??

Perfection IS THE POINT of what I was stating. We can NEVER be perfect in these bodies whether regenerate or not. Perfection is the standard we are to aspire toward because that is where God asked us to reach to, while knowing in truth we can not reach it, thus it is a standard or ruler. So did God command us to BE perfect JUST LIKE HE IS (in other words - be just like God IS) but knowing not even His own children can obtain this in our fleshly bodies; or is perfection the standard by which we see sin in and of ourselves in light of God's perfect Holiness. It is about seeing ourselves in contrast to Him our standard that we may see our sin, whether regenerate or not. It is this point of Perfection by which I state the commands God gave where and are intended to point us to perfection but not not that God expects us to actually BE just AS HE IS both here and now. If this were the case then there would be no need for Faith or grace just the empowering of God in us to be perfect. For it is by Faith that we please God not perfection, but perfection in Christ alone.

 

[Brother Bob]

We find where God said David had kept all His Commandments and statues and a man after His own heart even knowing what David did so when did David keep all of the commandments and statues as God said he did.

1Ki 11:34Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:

I don't know why you have to speak so foolish. If a man does become perfect in the end in the resurrection, then with the help of the Lord he did what God commanded. Looks like a child could see that. How can you say he did not accomplish it. Of course he had the help of the Lord as we all do.

The commandment is "be ye perfect as your Father". With the help of the good Lord he will be perfect so therefore the scripture is fulfilled. Live with it!

You are so scared that you might say that man actually did something like "serve the Lord" or anything. I don't know who you think a man is, just a peice of meat? Man was made a "living soul", God gave him understanding and the ability to do things. Here is one "seek the Lord in your youth while He may be found". You don't even believe man can do that do you?

You never did answer if when God commanded all men to repent, did they hear Him?

 

[Jarthur001]

Was asked.....

Would God command men to do something they were unable to do?​

Why would anyone say no?

Who gave the Law but God?

And if Gods choosen nation did not hearken, what would happen? Please read the word CURSES below.

Deu 28:15 ¶ But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

And who is going to say that the nation followed this? Hello? Anyone??

Could they? Not to pick on the Jews...so..could any man?

Is this not the point of Christ coming, for we cannot do as God says we should do? Is this not the point of grace?

My oh my...the things some say to defend their doctrine no matter how much damage one does to God, and His plan of salvation though grace.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh

In Christ...James

 

[Allan]

There is no damage done to God, however there is damage done to the Calvinistic Doctrines view.

So James, as EVERYONE affirms here and stated that None can can do what God asks with regard to perfection as unbelievers.

Do you believe that as Believers we are NOW able to do what God commands?
I take from your post, you do not (though I could be wrong).

So why does God give us as His own children cammands we can not do even with His empowering and His Holy Spirit in these bodies of corruption?

This is why I stated what I did. It is commanded but with the idea of imperfection in mind for we are but dust and He knows this. Therefore He is commanding much like a General would to His troops to "take the Hill" (so to speak) knowing his troops are not perfect so the command is a goal with which to strive for given all things necessary in which to do all they can. One day we will take that Hill and be perfect but for now it is a battle.

God does not tell us to do what we can not do for even in the law that they could NOT do, they were given within it a means (the sacrifice) that they COULD DO in order to make recompence for their inability to be perfect. Christ is also our propitiation (in the fulness thereof) for our inability to be perfect as well both at salvation and through to our sanctification.

 

[Brother Bob]

Without me you can do nothing but with me you can do all things well.

James? Did God command every man to repent and did they hear the command?

 

[reformedbeliever]

There is no damage done to God, however there is damage done to the Calvinistic Doctrines view.

So James, as EVERYONE affirms here and stated that None can can do what God asks with regard to perfection as unbelievers.

Do you believe that as Believers we are NOW able to do what God commands?
I take from your post, you do not (though I could be wrong).

So why does God give us as His own children cammands we can not do even with His empowering and His Holy Spirit in these bodies of corruption?

This is why I stated what I did. It is commanded but with the idea of imperfection in mind for we are but dust and He knows this. Therefore He is commanding much like a General would to His troops to "take the Hill" (so to speak) knowing his troops are not perfect so the command is a goal with which to strive for given all things necessary in which to do all they can. One day we will take that Hill and be perfect but for now it is a battle.

God does not tell us to do what we can not do for even in the law that they could NOT do, they were given within it a means (the sacrifice) that they COULD DO in order to make recompence for their inability to be perfect. Christ is also our propitiation (in the fulness thereof) for our inability to be perfect as well both at salvation and through to our sanctification.

Did you read the OP? I don't think you did. Of course I believe the command was made for us to strive for perfection. We are responsible to do such. We will not make the mark in this life however. We miss the target, however so little. We can not be perfect in this life. I simply was asking this question "would God command men to do something that they can not do" due to the common objection of the free willers that it somehow would be a flaw in the character of God. Please read the OP.

 

[Brother Bob]

Seems to me there was a remnant that were saved under the Law.

Something been bothering me about the Calvinist doctrine. If Israel is God's predestinated "elect" then how come only a remnant of them was saved? Couldn't God keep that which He chose as His own?

 

[reformedbeliever]

Seems to me there was a remnant that were saved under the Law.

:thumbs: Exactly. They were saved the same way His people are saved today. By His sovereign grace!

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello Allan,

There is no damage done to God, however there is damage done to the Calvinistic Doctrines view.

What it does to my views Calvinist doctrine can be debated. The OP can not for it has been shown that God did indeed demand the Jews to follow the Law...and they could not. Mind you, this was not some Godless pagan nation. They had the LAW. The had the prophets. The demand was in place, and they could not follow and that was the POINT. Do you not agree?

As to the what it does to Calvinism, I can not make your link to any damage.

So James, as EVERYONE affirms here and stated that None can can do what God asks with regard to perfection as unbelievers.

The post I read on this thread, some disagreed with this. But Allan, you over state the case. This is not even close to perfect we are talking about. One can not live a full year without sinning...or can they? I would say NO. I would say it would be hard to keep some form of pride out of your life for a full day. So to be perfect is not even close. Still...some in the start of this thread disagreed with this notion, which is flat out silly.

Do you believe that as Believers we are NOW able to do what God commands?
I take from your post, you do not (though I could be wrong).

What I believe matters little. But the Bible says NO.

Remember 1 John..

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Remember Pauls ...something like..what I will to do..i do not...and that which i wish not to do...i do. (my words )

So why does God give us as His own children cammands we can not do even with His empowering and His Holy Spirit in these bodies of corruption?

Are you asking me or God?

This is why I stated what I did. It is commanded but with the idea of imperfection in mind for we are but dust and He knows this. Therefore He is commanding much like a General would to His troops to "take the Hill" (so to speak) knowing his troops are not perfect so the command is a goal with which to strive for given all things necessary in which to do all they can. One day we will take that Hill and be perfect but for now it is a battle.

Well..this may indeed be one reason. I think there are much deeper reasons as well....but you may not want to hear these, for they are a bit Calvinistic.

God does not tell us to do what we can not do for even in the law that they could NOT do, they were given within it a means (the sacrifice) that they COULD DO in order to make recompence for their inability to be perfect.

Allan..you have added to the playing field. This is like saying if you pay your speeding ticket, you did not break the Law. Sorry...but if you pay your ticket the Law says you DID speed.
It was asked..."Would God command men to do something they were unable to do?" Now you have given a means to redeem from not doing as He has commanded. Therefore you have just stated my case. thanks

Christ is also our propitiation (in the fulness thereof) for our inability to be perfect as well both at salvation and through to our sanctification.

And that is the POINT of grace...right? Thanks again...