Would you allow this man to address your congregation?

[John of Japan]

A local church is unique. A university is not an extension of a church.

That said, why would I allow a rank unbeliever to address my congregation?

When I went to Tennessee Temple in the 1970s, it was directly under Highland Park Baptist Church. Where I teach now, the college is directly under the church both practically and constitutionally, and when I was hired I was told that as a prof, I was a church staff member.

 

[agedman]

When I went to Tennessee Temple in the 1970s, it was directly under Highland Park Baptist Church. Where I teach now, the college is directly under the church both practically and constitutionally, and when I was hired I was told that as a prof, I was a church staff member.

Liberty U. actually contributes financially to TRBC ministries.

 

[John of Japan]

Liberty U. actually contributes financially to TRBC ministries.

Hmm. Then does the tail wag the dog? Follow the money they always say.

 

[agedman]

Hmm. Then does the tail wag the dog? Follow the money they always say.

Taken from the post quoting the Falwells:

“TRBC continues to provide ministry opportunities for LU students and LU sponsors TRBC's television outreach and provides financial support for TRBC church planting efforts.”

 

[John of Japan]

Taken from the post quoting the Falwells:

“TRBC continues to provide ministry opportunities for LU students and LU sponsors TRBC's television outreach and provides financial support for TRBC church planting efforts.”

As long as I'm dealing in cliches, I'll just say that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Jerome]

Was this actually a chapel service or a special event?

LU Convocation FAQ’s

our Convocation is not a chapel service.

 

[agedman]

LU Convocation FAQ’s

Here, again, was one of the problems with my supporting LU.

EVERYTHING to the believer is and should be that which is pleasing to God.

The entertainment, the speakers, the choices of living and life...

There cannot be a separation between sacred and not sacred when it comes to the believer.

However, in LU's mind there can and should be a separation between the two.

This thinking of LU is highly problematic, and the thread isn't devoted to that topic.

 

[Jerome]

What many of us are saying is that this kind of speaker was never acceptable before Dr Falwell (Sr) passed away.

Speak from my pulpit for a Sunday Service - would not happen

Speak at a Christian college - not a problem

Liberty has had pro-choice Democrats speak in the past, but they've always been outside the convocation assembly.

The truth is, Falwell Sr. had U.S. Senate candidate Sylvia Clute (D) speak at a Sunday service of Thomas Road Baptist Church in 1994:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...1e4-89e1-904f1bfa5197/?utm_term=.10147f55a436

recent invitation to speak at evangelist Jerry Falwell's church, where she decried religious divisiveness....Endorsed by the National Organization for Women, Clute has sharpened her rhetoric in recent weeks as she hit her primary opponents from the left.

 

[Jerome]

Sunday Service of Thomas Road Baptist Church, early 1970s:

Join Us For A Thrilling Time SEE and HEAR Gov. George Wallace of Alabama In Person August 18, 9:30 A.M. THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH JERRY FALWELL, Pastor 701 Thomas Road, Lynchburg

 

[evangelist6589]

I probably would do so, but only in a university setting rather than "preaching his socialist gospel from the pulpit."

I realize that Liberty University has apparently undergone some rather dramatic changes in its style of public worship compared to what it was like when Jerry Falwell was its leader.

While I'm not necessarily "anti-change" over some matters, some people will throw a fit if they hear that a church or school has ever changed anything at all compared to what it was like 50-60 years ago. I'm not that way too much, and even I get flak sometimes for remaining in a church where I've been a member for 20+ years because it no longer has a choir and no more hymnals in the pew. Worst of all, the pastors no longer preach solely from the KJV.

When I ask these critics to show me an example of how our church has departed from its Statement of Faith on Bible Truths, I get no valid response. IOW, all they ever really say is either that it's just not the same since our founding pastor began preaching in his coat and tie back some 40 years ago.

They seem to forget that our founding pastor voluntarily stepped down from being our senior pastor some half dozen years ago do to medical and physical issues (He was diagnosed with a form of Parkinson's disease.) to pursue a different style of ministry of overseeing an umbrella foundation whose primary mission is to coordinate various domestic and foreign mission outreaches in which our church had an integral part in either forming or assisting over these 40 years of our existence.

This is a calling that takes him away somewhat from the 24/7/365 pressures of being a pastor of a medium-sized church that sponsors a pre K age 2 on up to 12th grade Christian day school and one that has at least 3 other congregations of foreign language ministries than go on simultaneously with our own English language corporate worship service + a children's church from ages 4 up to the 3rd grade level.

As only a layman, I don't see that there's anything inherently wrong with some things a local church does differently than she did some 40 years ago. As I once heard, "As long as the MESSAGE doesn't change, the way it should be delivered shouldn't matter that much."

Anyway, if I'm not mistaken, even Jerry Falwell himself was condemned for doing such things as dropping "Baptist" from Liberty University's name, and sometimes he'd also invite speakers to speak at the University who weren't exactly ultra-fundamental born-again Bible thumping conservative Republicans .

Was he therefore a heretic for having them speak to Liberty's students back then? I suppose some people would say he was, but coming from a person who probably saw some minor methodologies in a little differently from "Bro. Jerry's" way of doing things, I don't see the entire Liberty University's student body becoming idolizing fans of Sanders simply because he'll speak to them.

I'm reminded that a lot of people supported a divorced movie star for president some 35 years ago. Yes he was a divorced man who was friends with non-conservative entertainers like Frank Sinatra and who was a union president some 65 years ago who had a wife who occasionally went to see an occult fortune teller. But OTOH, I (who never voted for the GOP's candidate for president before or since) liked him as president.

There's a difference between a person's preferences and a person's convictions. Unfortunately some people tend to make their own personal preferences into convictions and impose them on everyone they meet or else to them "It's my way or the highway to you!" :BangHead: :tear:

Not preach solely from the KJV? That's because the more modern versions are better and more updated translations. I am talking about the NKJV, NASB, ESV, and NIV 1984.

 

[TCassidy]

What makes them better?

 

[HankD]

What makes them better?

Modern Standard English vs 17th century Jacobean-Elizabethan English.

e.g.
KJV 2 Corinthians 6
11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.

NKJV 2 Corinthians 6
11 O Corinthians! We have spoken openly to you, our heart is wide open.
12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections.
13 Now in return for the same (I speak as to children), you also be open.

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

I agree. There is some archaic language and the modern version often, but not always, improve on the Early Modern English of the KJV.

But sometimes they make it worse!

Job 6:6 (KJV) Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?

Job 6:6 (RSV) Can that which is tasteless be eaten without salt,
or is there any taste in the slime of the purslane?

Huh?

 

[HankD]

I agree. There is some archaic language and the modern version often, but not always, improve on the Early Modern English of the KJV.

But sometimes they make it worse!

Job 6:6 (KJV) Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?

Job 6:6 (RSV) Can that which is tasteless be eaten without salt,
or is there any taste in the slime of the purslane?

Huh?

Oh come on Dr Tom, haven't you ever had the slime of the purslane!?

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

Oh come on Dr Tom, haven't you ever had the slime of the purslane!?

HankD

LOL! Nope!

 

[Rob_BW]

Oh come on Dr Tom, haven't you ever had the slime of the purslane!?

HankD

LOL! Nope!

I actually prefer sunny side up. Does that count?

 

[TCassidy]

I actually prefer sunny side up. Does that count?

You prefer fried marshmallows?

(The purslain is a plant related to the marshmallow that was crushed and used as a lotion or ointment believed to have medicinal properties.)

 

[Rob_BW]

You prefer fried marshmallows?

(The purslain is a plant related to the marshmallow that was crushed and used as a lotion or ointment believed to have medicinal properties.)

But to get back on topic, sure, let Bernie speak. The divinity students will be learning about Wellhausen and Bultmann in class, that doesn't mean the school is endorsing their views.

 

[Jerome]

Speak from my pulpit for a Sunday Service - would not happen

Speak at a Christian college - not a problem

I found the Liberty Champion article (student newspaper) from 1994 when Falwell Sr. had a liberal Democrat candidate speak AT THE CHURCH!

DIFFERENT IS BETTER—Sylvia Clute, Democratic candidate for United States Senator addresses TRBC on moral issues.

 

[Rob_BW]

I found the Liberty Champion article (student newspaper) from 1994 when Falwell Sr. had a liberal Democrat candidate speak AT THE CHURCH!

And how many Republicans also spoke at the church that election cycle?

She was the only Democrat to accept a recent invitation to speak at evangelist Jerry Falwell's church, where she decried religious divisiveness.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...1e4-89e1-904f1bfa5197/?utm_term=.d6de0c31650b