==Joe Wilson is a symptom of the lack of civility in our nation. That there are conservatives supporting him in his uncivilized behavior is a disgrace. There is a time and place for everything and a proper way to handle disagreement. Shouting "you lie" in a church, in congress, or to someone at work is not a proper way of dealing with disagreement. Sadly we live in a nation that has become so polarized that many people no longer understand the need for civility.
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Would you call the pastor a liar during a service?
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
==Joe Wilson is a symptom of the lack of civility in our nation. That there are conservatives supporting him in his uncivilized behavior is a disgrace. There is a time and place for everything and a proper way to handle disagreement. Shouting "you lie" in a church, in congress, or to someone at work is not a proper way of dealing with disagreement. Sadly we live in a nation that has become so polarized that many people no longer understand the need for civility.
==This is true. But we must remember that Jesus is God and therefore has some prerogatives that we don't have. We are told how to handle those who disagree with us, etc (Matt 5:10-26, Rom 12:14-21, Titus 3:1-3, etc).
Doing This Would Be...
... something that I'd have to really believe the pastor was crossing the line on. Like some of those who commented, I have walked out of a few services, but, I'd never call the preacher a liar.
BTW. I've been in several services where some one has spoke in tongues, and the pastor has the full authority to either denounce the tongues; ask for an interpretation; or, rebuke the word as untruth.
Thank God that Baptists don't have to worry about this happening in their churches :laugh:
Just a note on tongues, I speak in tongues too... and it a tongue that the entire church is able to understand. When it was a problem, I always have an interpretor, mostly in Spanish speaking churches, as I am not conversive in Spanish. I understand enough Spanish to survive - after all I am surrounded by Spanish speaking people in my neighborhood here in California - but, I've needed help in breaking through the language barrier.
... something that I'd have to really believe the pastor was crossing the line on. Like some of those who commented, I have walked out of a few services, but, I'd never call the preacher a liar.
BTW. I've been in several services where some one has spoke in tongues, and the pastor has the full authority to either denounce the tongues; ask for an interpretation; or, rebuke the word as untruth.
Thank God that Baptists don't have to worry about this happening in their churches :laugh:
Just a note on tongues, I speak in tongues too... and it a tongue that the entire church is able to understand. When it was a problem, I always have an interpretor, mostly in Spanish speaking churches, as I am not conversive in Spanish. I understand enough Spanish to survive - after all I am surrounded by Spanish speaking people in my neighborhood here in California - but, I've needed help in breaking through the language barrier.
==Yes I did. I also don't believe that two wrongs equal a right.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
It depends if the woman's healed or not. If not I would call him a liar. If she is healed I might question the emphasis on himself rather that the Lord.
Baloney. I wish there were more conservatives who had the courage to stand and speak the truth to power, especially since the liberal media will not challenge him or others that have lied to the American people. Also, there should have been more vocal opposition to Mexico's President for standing in the Congress the other day and reprimanding the US for our laws. Civility is well and good, but enough is enough, thank you very much.
==There is a time and place for everything and a proper way to handle one's self in every situation. It is clear that Mr. Wilson does not understand that truth. Civility is what separates civilized men/women from barbarians and animals.
==If we lose civility we might as well cash in our chips.
I've essentially done what the OP asked.
A number of years ago (I believe, 1991), I was a member of a congregation pastored by a fairly well known SBC figure. He and I had previously had a doctrinal discussion over a very minor point of doctrine that scripture does not directly address --> He had one opinion, I had another.
He claimed the Bible clearly supported his position, but he could not give me any scripture to support it. At the same time, I was open to more information, but in my experience (and through diligent study of the scripture), I believed something different.
As for me, I left the issue open for further discussion, letting him know if he had any insight or scripture that might be helpful, I would be very interested to hear about it. As for him, he seemed to be personally offended that I wanted to have a scriptural basis for my beliefs instead of just taking his word for it.
Apparently, this unresolved difference gnawed at him and one Sunday morning during a sermon about a completely different issue, he suddenly spun around, pointed directly at me, and said that "some people here don't believe the word of God when it directly says that [our minor point of difference, misrepresented and dishonestly distorted to make me sound like I'm a complete heretic]. But I stand here on the authority of the word of God, and I can tell you that [his version of the minor point of issue, misrepresented to include things that I affirm].
Since I was specifically:
1.) very specifically singled out in front of the congregation
2.) grossly misrepresented and slandered as someone "who did not believe the Bible"
3.) the target of him trying to wrongly use his pastoral position to bully me into compliance with his very narrow views
... I responded, "not true", in a normal speaking voice that was actually heard by much of the congregation in the shocked silence after the pastor's attack.
I kept my seat and listened patiently to the rest of the pastor's sermon, not wanting to give him an opportunity to portray me as someone in rebellion against the church (for I was not).
For the next two months or so, I was continually harassed by the pastoral staff with all kinds of claims. I was even called into the Minister of Education's office to answer questions regarding whether or not I was "a Satanist."
(I'm not joking at all.) They claimed they had "information" that identified me as a satanist. I was surprised, but patiently and honestly answered their questions. I asked for some specifics about their "information", but they claimed they had to keep it confidential. They also claimed I was not "loyal to the church" and was only there because I liked "the power of being a Sunday School teacher." :laugh:
About two weeks later, I was relieved of my Sunday School teaching role. I was given notice just before Sunday School one morning that it would be my last Sunday. I changed the lesson on the fly to a lesson about the primacy of the written word of God for faith and practice. I affirmed that scripture is our most reliable guide to understanding the mind of God and interacting with our world - the opinions of religious leaders are often very helpful, but they must be measured by scripture.
I continued attending the church for a few more weeks until the Minister of Education confronted me and told me that I needed to go to another church where "my gifts and callings could be more effectively used." I took that as religious-speak for "leave and don't come back."
I left.
About six months later, the church experienced a massive split where the pastor called for prayer concerns on Sunday morning, and the staff evangelist stood up and asked for the church to pray for the new congregation that was forming that morning as he and about a third of the congregation walked out to form a new church.
A number of years ago (I believe, 1991), I was a member of a congregation pastored by a fairly well known SBC figure. He and I had previously had a doctrinal discussion over a very minor point of doctrine that scripture does not directly address --> He had one opinion, I had another.
He claimed the Bible clearly supported his position, but he could not give me any scripture to support it. At the same time, I was open to more information, but in my experience (and through diligent study of the scripture), I believed something different.
As for me, I left the issue open for further discussion, letting him know if he had any insight or scripture that might be helpful, I would be very interested to hear about it. As for him, he seemed to be personally offended that I wanted to have a scriptural basis for my beliefs instead of just taking his word for it.
Apparently, this unresolved difference gnawed at him and one Sunday morning during a sermon about a completely different issue, he suddenly spun around, pointed directly at me, and said that "some people here don't believe the word of God when it directly says that [our minor point of difference, misrepresented and dishonestly distorted to make me sound like I'm a complete heretic]. But I stand here on the authority of the word of God, and I can tell you that [his version of the minor point of issue, misrepresented to include things that I affirm].
Since I was specifically:
1.) very specifically singled out in front of the congregation
2.) grossly misrepresented and slandered as someone "who did not believe the Bible"
3.) the target of him trying to wrongly use his pastoral position to bully me into compliance with his very narrow views
... I responded, "not true", in a normal speaking voice that was actually heard by much of the congregation in the shocked silence after the pastor's attack.
I kept my seat and listened patiently to the rest of the pastor's sermon, not wanting to give him an opportunity to portray me as someone in rebellion against the church (for I was not).
For the next two months or so, I was continually harassed by the pastoral staff with all kinds of claims. I was even called into the Minister of Education's office to answer questions regarding whether or not I was "a Satanist."
(I'm not joking at all.) They claimed they had "information" that identified me as a satanist. I was surprised, but patiently and honestly answered their questions. I asked for some specifics about their "information", but they claimed they had to keep it confidential. They also claimed I was not "loyal to the church" and was only there because I liked "the power of being a Sunday School teacher." :laugh:About two weeks later, I was relieved of my Sunday School teaching role. I was given notice just before Sunday School one morning that it would be my last Sunday. I changed the lesson on the fly to a lesson about the primacy of the written word of God for faith and practice. I affirmed that scripture is our most reliable guide to understanding the mind of God and interacting with our world - the opinions of religious leaders are often very helpful, but they must be measured by scripture.
I continued attending the church for a few more weeks until the Minister of Education confronted me and told me that I needed to go to another church where "my gifts and callings could be more effectively used." I took that as religious-speak for "leave and don't come back."
I left.
About six months later, the church experienced a massive split where the pastor called for prayer concerns on Sunday morning, and the staff evangelist stood up and asked for the church to pray for the new congregation that was forming that morning as he and about a third of the congregation walked out to form a new church.
You Need to Be More Diverse
It really won't hurt you to go to a Pentecostal church. Some of my best friends are pentecostal, and diversity is good for everyone. You can't criticize the Pentecosts if you have no working knowledge of what goes on there. Rumors are exaggerated. :laugh:
It really won't hurt you to go to a Pentecostal church. Some of my best friends are pentecostal, and diversity is good for everyone. You can't criticize the Pentecosts if you have no working knowledge of what goes on there. Rumors are exaggerated. :laugh: