Would you dare pray this prayer,,,?

[Ian Major]

Yelsew said, Unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire, while believers are not! What conclusion do you draw from that?

That belief has something to do with their eternal state.

Unbelievers are not given eternal life, while believers are! What conclusion do you draw from that?

That belief has something to do with their salvation.


The sins of all mankind for all times are atoned for! What conclusion do you draw from that?

That you haven't (a) understood the Scriptural teaching on the extent of the atonement because you fail to take all of the Scripture into consideration, Rev.20:12 being a good example, And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. (b) understand that you are conducting circular reasoning - the issue of all sins being atoned for is the reason the Revelation text on judgement for sins was given. It cannot be used to prove itself.

Please answer my previous question and you will be nearer to resolving whether or not 'sins of all mankind for all times are atoned for'. Here it is again: So you agree they are judged for their sins; what punishment do they receive, if not eternal - the second death?

In Him

Ian

 

[Yelsew2]

That you haven't (a) understood the Scriptural teaching on the extent of the atonement because you fail to take all of the Scripture into consideration, Rev.20:12 being a good example, And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. (b) understand that you are conducting circular reasoning - the issue of all sins being atoned for is the reason the Revelation text on judgement for sins was given. It cannot be used to prove itself.

a. I believe I understand the scriptural teaching better than you, and Revelation 20:12 is not the only scripture that applies. The intent is that the DEEDS of the dead are judged, not the dead themselves. Then all whose names are not in the book of Life, those who have NOT received the promise by faith, are cast into the Lake of Fire.

Please answer my previous question and you will be nearer to resolving whether or not 'sins of all mankind for all times are atoned for'. Here it is again: So you agree they are judged for their sins; what punishment do they receive, if not eternal - the second death?

NO, I do NOT agree with your opinion. The Deeds of All men are judged, but not the men themselves for they ALL come through the judgment of deeds, then the believers go to be with Jesus, passing from death unto life while the unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire, the second death.

If it were as you have declared, then there is no reason for atonement, and men would receive the reward of their deeds...THUS WORKS SALVATION! However, Atonement removed the penalty for sins, so that neither Good works nor Sins, both of which are deeds, have any bearing on the eternal destiny of any man. ETERNAL LIFE is given by God to those who believe in Him, but especially (John 3:16) upon HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, Jesus! Those who do not believe in God, or in Jesus condemn themselves by their unbelief (John 3;18). It cannot be any clearer than that! SIN is not a factor in the Final Judgment of man! FAITH ALONE is the criteria for eternal life, or Lack of faith for the lake of fire!

As for rewards, Those deeds that pass through the test of fire in the manner that gold, silver, and precious stones pass through fire, are presented at the feet of Jesus, who rewards according to the deed. Those deeds (sins) that survive the fire in the manner that wood, hay, and stubble survive fire, that is are consumed leaving only worthless ash, are shown for what they are! There is no reward given for ashes, and thus nothing to leave at the feet of Jesus. The one whose works are consumed in the fire, survives the fire as one who's whole world was consumed in the fire...Totally devastated! Nothing to rejoice about! The fact remains that one so devastated can still have eternal life because of faith in Jesus, even on his name! While one who has done good works all his life may end up in the Lake of Fire because he did not have faith in God or in Christ.

 

[Ian Major]

Yelsew said, I believe I understand the scriptural teaching better than you, and Revelation 20:12 is not the only scripture that applies. The intent is that the DEEDS of the dead are judged, not the dead themselves. and Unbelievers are judged for deeds (works and sins) , but not unto life or the second death.

The Scripture says, Rev.20:12, And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. Note - THE DEAD WERE JUDGED, not the works were judged. THE DEAD WERE JUDGED ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS, not only for their lack of faith.

Other Scripture speaks of man being judged by their words, being judged for their lack of faith: all of these must be true, for the Scripture cannot be broken. Your view restricts judgement to one ground only and falsifies Scripture.

In Him

Ian

 

[Yelsew2]

Ian,
If you have a good "electronic bible" do a study of the various judgements. Use keywords such as "judged", "judgment", "judging", and similar. Be sure to take each scripture reference in its context so that the meaning comes to you.

You will find several instances in scriptures where the Apostles and Disciples of Christ understand the meaning of "judgment according to one's deeds", is that one's deeds will be judged while the one survives that judgment of deeds. But that the judgment of each individual man is on the basis of FAITH alone. Those having faith, regardless of deeds done while living this natural life, are "passed from death into life", while those lacking faith in God are cast into the lake of fire. Thus the separation of the sheep from the goats.

 

[Ian Major]

Yelsew said, If you have a good "electronic bible" do a study of the various judgements. Use keywords such as "judged", "judgment", "judging", and similar. Be sure to take each scripture reference in its context so that the meaning comes to you. You will find several instances in scriptures where the Apostles and Disciples of Christ understand the meaning of "judgment according to one's deeds", is that one's deeds will be judged while the one survives that judgment of deeds.

Yelsew, for the sake of all who follow this thread, please give us the texts that speak of the judgement of man = the judgement of his works, not the man. I can't find them.

In Him

Ian