Would you give up your rock?

[Dootles]

If you were challenged to go on a rock fast (rock meaning soft rock, jazz, metal, swing, basically any type of music either sensual in nature and/or with a back beat [accent hitting on 2nd and 4th beats of measure rather than 1st and 3rd beats])--would you do it?

I have, in the past, like most other folks enjoyed all types of music--they are definately both powerful and alluring. However, are all types of music Godly and do they draw us nearer to God or draw us away?

I went on a music fast for 30 days (gave up my rock [both CCM and secular]) and I found that listening to those types of music again was distracting at best, unsettling at worst.

If types/styles of music don't matter and are not a big deal, would you be able to go without your rock?

Would you listen to classical (waltz, marches, etc. and ethnic folk music (ie-Irish folk songs, etc.) and similar non-sensual music instead? (Non-sensual music would be the type that you respond to naturally by tapping your feet or clapping your hands on 1st & 3rd beats rather than wiggling your shoulders, hips, head or clapping to off beats of 2 & 4 in a measure).

How important is your music to you?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I listen to it anyways. There are lots of folk songs that are accented on the 2 & 4 beats. What's so evil about that ? "Sweet Hour of Prayer" is a waltz. "When the Role is Called up Yonder" rocks right along. And there is plenty of Bach, and Beethoven, and Mozart, where the beats were very uncommon for music of that time. Were the fundie preachers warning against Mozart ? Probably. Were they wrong ?

 

[Abiyah]

I thought you meant my pet rock, until I read a
little. 8o) ! !

Classical music is "'sensual,"' as you describe
sensual, to me. Classical music effects me in
many ways. In fact, I have no idea what non-
sensual music would be, as described here. I
don't think it exists. --For me.

 

[stubbornkelly]

Agreed that classical music can be (much of it is) sensual.

I listen to it anyway, too, so going without "rock" music wouldn't be a big deal. I enjoy it, and music itself is very important to me, but I don't see myself having some sort of strange freak-out because I can't listen to jazz or lounge or swing or electronica or plain old "rock" music. At the same time, I don't see the need for any sort of "rock fast." What purpose would it serve?

As a side note, be careful how you classify classical music as non-sensual. I'm sure you've listened to Ravel's Bolero, or Bizet's Carmen ("L'Amour Est Un Oiseau Rebelle" is particularly sensual).

But pardon me, too, if I never realized how sensual moving my head to music would be. I often move my head and body to classical music, if only because I sometimes let my body "conduct" the music (too many conducting lessons, maybe?).

I went on a music fast for 30 days (gave up my rock [both CCM and secular]) and I found that listening to those types of music again was distracting at best, unsettling at worst.

Now, after I left music school, I didn't listen to opera or any other sort of classical music for over a year, at least if I did, it wasn't intentional (car commercials and the like). Amazingly, when I started listening to it again, it all came together, better than it ever had before. Just another little anecdote.

 

[Gina B]

Don't know about the 2 and 4 and 1 and three or whatever, but no.
Music is a huge part of my life, and I love to praise God through singing and to hear others do it the same way.
I've found that as I grow spiritually I've given up secular music more and more. I still enjoy a lot of classical and folk, but for the most part Christian music and artists have taken over my collection, and it includes a variety of styles. As far as Christian music, well, let me go look and see what I have.
1. Fernando Ortega (about 4 cd's)
2. World's Greatest Hymns
3. Songs 4 Worship
4. Hymns for the Home
5. A few WoW worship cd's (their latest ones are awful and I don't know HOW they can even claim the songs are about Christ though, most are secular songs about love and desire for another person, Grrr)
6. Gothic Voices (Jerusalem)
7. Some dude, lost the case, lol, but sings hymns all slow and often without music
8. The Cathedral Quartet
9. Best of Country Gospel
10. Pastor Bob Lemmon CD from his church (he's on here occasionally)
A number of college choirs, Crown, some others.
There's a few kids cd's, a lot of Cedermont Kids ones.
Sooo, I guess you can see there's a lot of variety there. Whether it's praising God through voices without instruments, or praising God with instruments minus voice, or both, or praising him fast, or praising him slow, if it's all about Christ and honoring Him I'm all for it.

Gina

 

[Ransom]

Before I agree to a "fast" of anything, I would want "rock" defined somewhat less broadly than the definition given here, which could be interpreted to encompass pretty much everything composed in a major key.

But to answer the question: No, I wouldn't agree. Why should I?

 

[redwhitenblue]

I wouldn't agree to any type of fast rock or otherwise unless God placed that on my heart to do so....I won't do it with the leading of man because I'm doing it for the wrong reason then. If God laid it on my heart to do so then by all means I would do it. I've learned that with any type of fasting you must be lead of the Holy Spirit and truly be ready and willing to do so otherwise it's in vain.

Karen

 

[Mike McK]

When I first became a Christian, I gave up all contemporary music and got rid of all my rock and country albums (fortunately, through the help of my sister and a friend, I managed to get most of them back later).

I found that not listening to rock had no discernable impact on me so I eventualy started listening to good music again.

I guess if God really impressd on me that He wanted me to do it, I would. But for now, I think He would just rather I use discernment and not throw out the music that He's used time and time again to speak to me.

Mike

[ October 09, 2002, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
I listen to it anyways. There are lots of folk songs that are accented on the 2 & 4 beats. What's so evil about that ? "Sweet Hour of Prayer" is a waltz. "When the Role is Called up Yonder" rocks right along. And there is plenty of Bach, and Beethoven, and Mozart, where the beats were very uncommon for music of that time. Were the fundie preachers warning against Mozart ? Probably. Were they wrong ?

A 4/4 beat accented on the up beats (2&4) inspire a wholly different choreography than a 4/4 beat with the emphases on 1 & 3.

I say this merely to say there is a difference. They beats speak to different parts of the body, and the body responds accordingly.

As far as Mozart and upbeat music is concerned, here is an observation by one authority on the subject:

When you felt transported by Mozart or Brahms, it wasn’t your body that was transported. The sensation often described is a body yearning to follow where its spirit has gone -- the sense of a body being tugged upward, rising a little where you sit. And you almost always sit. And, for the most part, you sit comparatively still. The music doesn’t change your body.

The classical dance that grew from this music had a stiff, straight back and moved in almost geometrical lines. The folk dances of the West were also physically contained, with linear gestures. The feet might move with wonderful flurries and intricate precision, but the hips and the spine were kept rigid. That way, the energy that lived in the hips and the loins would proceed through proper channels -- and those channels were defined well outside the dance. Western movement and music were as linear as its thought.

Michael Ventura, Hear That Long Snake Moan

 

[Aaron]

BTW,

Welcome to the Music Ministry Forum, Dootles.

 

[Brett Valentine]

Hi,

I have to disagree with Mr. Ventura that only classical music can give you that "yearning upward" feeling. THat's his personal experience, absolutely valid for him, but not for me. Also, that "2 & 4" back beat thing reaches over into "classical" music as well. There are marches (I'm sure Sousa has at least a few) where the snare is clearly and only on the 2 & 4 in a back beat pattern. As well Vaclav Neleybel wrote band and wind ensemble music that was, to say the least, percussion heavy with a strong emphasis of rhythm. I did not experience any of the "sensual" responses that are categorized.

As to giving up rock, jazz, etc. I see no reason, nor sense any imperative to do so. Rock doesn't mean "rebellion," nor "sex" to me. That's not my experiential context.

On the other hand, it is refreshing when I do take a break and put on some Bach for example (by the way, the Hogwood version of the Brandenburg Concertos-early sketches- played on original instruments can rival jazz, which really is the music of the Baroque period's equivalent).

Brett

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Brett Valentine:
I have to disagree with Mr. Ventura that only classical music can give you that "yearning upward" feeling. THat's his personal experience, absolutely valid for him, but not for me.

Ventura was not describing his experience. He was describing the common experience. "The sensation often described..." emphasis mine.

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Common experience....

"Most widely known", as defined by Webster.

More people you come across have not had that experience, so it would and could not be called common... Just because a person has a certain experience does not mean that it is evil or wrong for everyone.

Ever hear of a thing called free-will? I believe that was given to us by God. So, because we have free-will the experience will be different, and one cannot say, because I cannot handle rock, or CCM or something else they find they can't handle, then it is wrong for you, you, and you!

It's kinda like chocolate...it is a temptation for many women....and for those that it isn't a temptation for, it is inappropiate for a woman (who struggles with chocolate) to say to a woman (who doesn't struggle) that it's wrong for her to eat chocolate.

Some can handle it without their walk being hindered, while others can't.

Those that can't handle CCM, I doubt that it's because it's wrong, but it's because of how they've been raised, and they haven't taken time to do their own research and decid for themselves.

We're human, not all of us are going to have the same strenghts, but don't infringe upon someone else's right and privelege to listen to a certain type of music!

~Teresa~

 

[Johnv]

Counterquestion: If you were to be challenged to give up Christian music, would you do it?

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by baptistforever:
More people you come across have not had that experience, so it would and could not be called common...Those that can't handle CCM, I doubt that it's because it's wrong, but it's because of how they've been raised, and they haven't taken time to do their own research and decid for themselves.

How much research have you done? Can you cite an example where the dances choregraphed to classical music included pelvic thrusts and head and shoulder bopping?

Ventura's work is authoritative and required reading in many university music history courses. It will take more than a cursory glance at a dictionary definition to debunk it.

Originally posted by baptistforever:
We're human, not all of us are going to have the same strenghts, but don't infringe upon someone else's right and privelege to listen to a certain type of music!

~Teresa~

Is that how you read Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8? I think it's clear in those chapters that the stronger are to defer to the consciences of the weaker. And since you refer to us who oppose sensual forms of worship as those who "can't handle" it, you obviously view us as weaker.

What saith the Scriptures, Teresa?

 

[Brett Valentine]

Originally posted by Johnv:
Counterquestion: If you were to be challenged to give up Christian music, would you do it?

Now that seems to be a different issue. I think a better question would be giving up chocolate because it is addictive to some people; or giving up watching or attending sports events because some people idolize the atheletes, or bet on games, or are completely obsessed.

There is a danger to some in these things and the rationale (usually out of love and honest concern) is "danger to some = danger to all."

If I had a problem with rock, then yes, I would consider it. Rock, or chocolate, or sports are not the issue. It's the struggle with obedience to Christ, and the hunger to get closer to Him.

Aaron: Okay, I understand what you mean by "common experience." For me (my sister as well), that experience is not exclusively limited to classical music. . . and from experience (no, I don't have stats to back it up) it seems it's not limited just to the two of us either.

Brett

[ October 08, 2002, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Brett Valentine ]

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Aaron:
The way your posts have been coming across to me is that it seems to me that you believe that because one person believes that CCM is wrong, then it is wrong for all...
"God will never give us anything that we cannot handle", if you want to use scripture. ANd by this verse, it is talking about temptations and trials. It also has been coming across to me that you see CCM as a temptation, if that's the case, then the reason why some don't see the same way you do is because they can handle it.

Can you cite examples where CCM has led to sin, by just the music itself?

Music is like sports, there is more than one kind. Not one sport fits all, same way with music. Not one style fits us all, but I'm not talking about the music like Korn or Limpbisket, but Christian music.

If what matters is our hearts, then why must we do away with CCM. CCM can, and often does, glorify God.

~Teresa~

 

[Circuitrider]

Dootles, Praise God, I gave it up when I got saved. My Christian life of over 30 years has been a "rock fast."

 

[ChristianCynic]

I hardly ever post about this any more, because to me it's really settled... for hymns in the book, some I like and most I don't [and the average church has probably sang less than 1/4 of them in its services]. It's the same with CCM-- some of it I like, most I don't. But in either case, words of praise will be accepted and affirmed regardless of how pleasing or displeasing I find the melody.

[ October 08, 2002, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Dootles:
If you were challenged to go on a rock fast (rock meaning soft rock, jazz, metal, swing, basically any type of music either sensual in nature and/or with a back beat [accent hitting on 2nd and 4th beats of measure rather than 1st and 3rd beats])--would you do it?

If there were a good purpose behind it. I have fasted from music before, but there was little benefit to me. A number of years ago I was challenged by the youth minister at my church to forgo any "secular" music because it was upsetting him. As a result, I listened only to music churned out by the "Christian" music industry. I discover a few good artists but most of the time I was annoyed by the "unreality" of most "Christian" music. There were also problems with quality and excellence. I started listening to "secular" music again when I decided to stop drawing false boundries in my life between "sacred" and "secular" and started pursuing excellence instead.

I have, in the past, like most other folks enjoyed all types of music--they are definately both powerful and alluring. However, are all types of music Godly and do they draw us nearer to God or draw us away?

I think (and Aaron will certainly disagree) that styles of music are generally neutral. I don't think *music* has the power to affect our relationship to God. Now music can certainly help us worship and appreciate God, but it does not move us to God unless we decide to go. Much of the music in the hymnal is simply what I can "truth telling" or testimonial music (that is, "What a Friend We Have in Jesus", "Alas and Did My Savior Bleed", "Since Jesus Came Into My Heart"). There is an abundance of "secular" music that is truth telling music even if it does not directly address God. If the lyrics are true, then the song shouldn't be much of an issue for the Christian.

I went on a music fast for 30 days (gave up my rock [both CCM and secular]) and I found that listening to those types of music again was distracting at best, unsettling at worst.

You said a "music fast" but you don't seem to be talking about hymns or classical music. Personally I enjoy all kind of music except for heavy metal and most of what the rap world has to offer. I think that self denial can be an excellent discipline for a believer to focus on a particular concern or to seek God, but music is a good gift of God to be enjoy on a regular basis.

If types/styles of music don't matter and are not a big deal, would you be able to go without your rock?

I could, but I won't. That would be shutting myself off from some of the most creative musical expression in contemporary culture.

Would you listen to classical (waltz, marches, etc. and ethnic folk music (ie-Irish folk songs, etc.) and similar non-sensual music instead?

I already listen to those forms. Shutting out one type of music is not going to change my appreciation for these forms.

(Non-sensual music would be the type that you respond to naturally by tapping your feet or clapping your hands on 1st & 3rd beats rather than wiggling your shoulders, hips, head or clapping to off beats of 2 & 4 in a measure).

You seem to be placing a negative association on the word "sensual" in this context. There is nothing wrong with dance and physical expression to music. There are certainly evil ways to dance, but that doesn't make dancing evil.

How important is your music to you?

It's a wonderful gift of God that I am called to participate in. It is a mass medium of communication in our culture. To avoid certain forms of music is to restrict the penetration of the gospel into the culture.