Would you know a demon possessed person if they stood before you?

[Sapper Woody]

I rather enjoyed ITL's OP on D&G and the Baptist preacher who uses a ritual like prayer before the servics to "take away Satan's legal ground" in his church and in his people! I found the video of Pastor Worley to be sincere and his concern for the congregation touching!

This is why I am asking, would any of you know if a person was demon possessed or oppressed? And if you believe you are personally capable of recognizing a demonic spirit controlling a another person, do you believe that you are able to cast it out?

And while I'm on this, have any of you ever encountered a demon, and if so, did you successfully cast it aside and out?

Maybe I should go one step further, and inquire if any of you reading this OP actually believe in demons, or like with the gifts of the spirit, did the work of demons (possessions, oppressions, temptation, etc.) ended with the book of Acts or sometime thereafter?

:wavey: Please try to keep this OP free of jokes and mocking. I am trying to start a discussion on a serious topic that the video of Win Worley got me thinking about! THANKS!!!! :thumbs:

I believe in demons, and demonic activity. I think that while demonic activity is very real and present and ongoing, I think that many people get sucked into thinking that everything they see is demonic activity. Not unlike the ghost hunters who interpret everything they see to be the act of a ghost.

I believe that demon possession is a rare event. While I do not wish to discredit anyone on this board, as their experiences may be real, I believe that the average person will possibly see 1-2 demon possessed persons in their entire ministry.

I believe that casting a demon out of a person is a very dangerous thing to do. If they person does not want that demon to leave, then there is going to be a battle that will end up badly for the person no matter the outcome.

Casting a demon out of a home is similarly complicated. While I believe it is easy for a man of God to temporarily drive demons from a home, it is up to the man of the house to keep them gone; and if they were there in the first place, he obviously doesn't have the control over his house that he needs to keep them gone. Driving demons from a home is not a one shot deal. It is a matter of discipleship.

As far as the poster who believes that demons are disembodied Nephilim, that is something I had not heard before. I disagree, but find the line of theory intriguing, and something I'd like to discuss at some point to learn of the viewpoint.

 

[Van]

Thanks for the ideas.

I've already stated it but,

Neither give place to the devil. Eph. 4:27 written many years after Jesus ascension. Why would the Holy Spirit give such a warning if it wasn't/isn't possible for believers to be oppressed by devils?

II Corinthains 10:4-5 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

The same question applies here: if it isn't possible for Christians to be affected by devils then why do we have the warning? Paul was clearly talking about the war being in the mind (imagination, thoughts, etc.).

As a pastor with 31 yrs experience in counseling I can tell the readers that I have experienced dozens of demonic manifestations in professing believers and supernatural occurrences on numerous occasions. There is no question in our minds that the Bible was quite literal and it still exists in our day.

P.s. do you see the small blue winking faced emticon above? I did not put it there and it doesn't show up on my pre-post typing screen, nor can I get rid of it. I've seen this before. Devils who like to mock preachers that fight them in spiritual warfare.

Thanks for presenting scripture you believe supports modern day possession of individuals by demons.

Ephesians 4:27, "and do not give a place to the devil." Certainly Satan is in view, and it is not too much of a stretch to see the possibility that the Devil's minions (demons) are also in view. James 4:7 tells us we should resist the devil, which likewise could also include his demons. But what is missing is any support for possession or demonic indwelling.

Now lets look at 2 Cor. 10:4-5, "for the weapons of our warfare are not human weapons, but are made powerful by God for tearing down strongholds. We tear down arguments and every arrogant obstacle that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to make it obey Christ." (NET) Again, no one is saying we (every born anew believer) is not engaged in spiritual warfare against Satan and his demons.

But proving from scripture the existence of Satanic forces arrayed against us, does not prove people are possessed or that the possession can be thwarted through prayer (exorcism.) And as I said, it is not disproved either.

 

[Calypsis4]

Thanks for presenting scripture you believe supports modern day possession of individuals by demons.

Ephesians 4:27, "and do not give a place to the devil." Certainly Satan is in view, and it is not too much of a stretch to see the possibility that the Devil's minions (demons) are also in view. James 4:7 tells us we should resist the devil, which likewise could also include his demons. But what is missing is any support for possession or demonic indwelling.

Now lets look at 2 Cor. 10:4-5, "for the weapons of our warfare are not human weapons, but are made powerful by God for tearing down strongholds. We tear down arguments and every arrogant obstacle that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to make it obey Christ." (NET) Again, no one is saying we (every born anew believer) is not engaged in spiritual warfare against Satan and his demons.

But proving from scripture the existence of Satanic forces arrayed against us, does not prove people are possessed or that the possession can be thwarted through prayer (exorcism.) And as I said, it is not disproved either.

The gospels and Acts reveal it quite a few times. The rest of the New Testament explains it doctrinally. You missed the point of both Eph. 4:27 & II Corinthians 10: 4-5. I have seen it quite a few times.

Best wishes.

 

[sag38]

I was asked by a man once to come and deal with what he called a ghost in his home. I told him that I would be glad to come and help him. When I arrived at his home he described to me the activity that was going on...pictures moving on the wall, bumps in the night, one room that had a cold presence in it. After he was finished I explained to him that I was not an exorcist. I was not there to cast out a ghost or a demon from his home but I knew someone who could. I witnessed to him about Jesus and explained to him that if he would submit himself to Jesus as Lord that whatever was troubling his home would have to leave because there would be a new master in the house. The man rose up out of his seat to attack me and I was getting up to head out of the door when my fellow ghost busting partner spoke prophetically to the man and the man calmed down. I went back to that man's home several times after that but he never submitted himself to Christ. Clearly this man was under demonic influence and was was not willing to give up whatever was giving that demon power over him. Most likely, and evidence suggested, that he was using some type of illegal drug which can be a gate way into the demonic realm.

 

[Yeshua1]

The gospels and Acts reveal it quite a few times. The rest of the New Testament explains it doctrinally. You missed the point of both Eph. 4:27 & II Corinthians 10: 4-5. I have seen it quite a few times.

Best wishes.

there is NOTHING in the NT that supports the concept of a true christian becoming possessed by a Demon, as that idea seems to come from a pentacostal basis of us being divided up , and a Believer can be noth saved in His Soul, and somehow have a demon in his mind.body..

jesus used his power to drive them out, the very power of God, and again, how is it that EVERY time he encountered them they could not withstand him at all, and yet they can keep possessing a real Christian, or else been taking days to get casted out?

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe in demons, and demonic activity. I think that while demonic activity is very real and present and ongoing, I think that many people get sucked into thinking that everything they see is demonic activity. Not unlike the ghost hunters who interpret everything they see to be the act of a ghost.

I believe that demon possession is a rare event. While I do not wish to discredit anyone on this board, as their experiences may be real, I believe that the average person will possibly see 1-2 demon possessed persons in their entire ministry.

I believe that casting a demon out of a person is a very dangerous thing to do. If they person does not want that demon to leave, then there is going to be a battle that will end up badly for the person no matter the outcome.

Casting a demon out of a home is similarly complicated. While I believe it is easy for a man of God to temporarily drive demons from a home, it is up to the man of the house to keep them gone; and if they were there in the first place, he obviously doesn't have the control over his house that he needs to keep them gone. Driving demons from a home is not a one shot deal. It is a matter of discipleship.

As far as the poster who believes that demons are disembodied Nephilim, that is something I had not heard before. I disagree, but find the line of theory intriguing, and something I'd like to discuss at some point to learn of the viewpoint.

the person who has been saved . is now walking in the spirit and has his sins being cleansed by the lamb cannot have demonic activity remaining, as light and darkness cannot fellowship!

Now can that same person be falling into the temptations of say the flesh and satan in regards to say pornography, or drinking, or ausive language?

Yes, but those are NOT caused by him being possessed by a demon, but by him refusing to obey the Spirit, and quenching/grieving him by doing what he has been tempted to be doing!

 

[Calypsis4]

Yeshua1there is NOTHING in the NT that supports the concept of a true christian becoming possessed by a Demon, as that idea seems to come from a pentacostal basis of us being divided up , and a Believer can be noth saved in His Soul, and somehow have a demon in his mind.body..

Friend, as I pointed out to you before, it is NOT possession....it is oppression that affects believers and that oppression can and does involve the lives of every believer who deliberately sins against God. It can and often does look just like possession.

Acts 5:1-3 Ac 5:1 ¶ But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land

Do not try to rationalize this; this Christian couple connived to cheat God of what they promised to give; WHY? because Satan had filled their hearts to do so. The Greek word for 'filled' is pleroo πληρόω which means to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow) (Strongs Exhaustive Concordance). Oh, yes, Satan was inside of Ananias and Peter said so. But that was not possession because they were Christians. It was oppression and Satan was a mere squatter.

Who do you think that Paul was warning in II Corinth. 10:4-5?

4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Question: Where are those 'strongholds? Outside or inside the believers mind?

Where are your imaginations? Inside or outside of your mind?

Where are your thoughts? Inside or outside of your mind?

Now if you will just be honest then there is NO other conclusion than the fact that Christians can have their minds invaded by strong men(devils) who build and man strongholds in the mind of believers who have the presence of unconfessed of sin. THERE IS NOT OTHER POSSIBLE CONCLUSION about this matter. It is not ambiguous nor is it hard to understand, it is just that most Christians like yourself cannot grasp the truth of it because of an inward prejudice....not because the scriptures don't teach it.

 

[Van]

The gospels and Acts reveal it quite a few times. The rest of the New Testament explains it doctrinally. You missed the point of both Eph. 4:27 & II Corinthians 10: 4-5. I have seen it quite a few times.

Best wishes.

1) The issue is not that demonic possession did not occur during the lifetime of Christ and His Apostles. However, this truth is non-germane to the issue, i.e. present day possession.

2) The doctrine of spiritual warfare is not in dispute either. But whether demonic possession exists today.

3) I may well have missed "the point" but I did address what those verses actually teach, which does not support your contention.

4) I have seen individuals who seemed not in their right minds, but instead seemed to be under the influence of demonic forces. But, being unable to discern with certainty their spiritual condition, I make no claim they were possessed or were not possessed.

 

[Calypsis4]

1) The issue is not that demonic possession did not occur during the lifetime of Christ and His Apostles. However, this truth is non-germane to the issue, i.e. present day possession.

2) The doctrine of spiritual warfare is not in dispute either. But whether demonic possession exists today.

3) I may well have missed "the point" but I did address what those verses actually teach, which does not support your contention.

4) I have seen individuals who seemed not in their right minds, but instead seemed to be under the influence of demonic forces. But, being unable to discern with certainty their spiritual condition, I make no claim they were possessed or were not possessed.

I do. Because I have seen it dozens of times.

I have already given quite a few examples of the presence of demonic spirits and/or possession. There is NO scripture that teaches it does not exist beyond the time of Jesus in the N.T.

 

[Yeshua1]

Friend, as I pointed out to you before, it is NOT possession....it is oppression that affects believers and that oppression can and does involve the lives of every believer who deliberately sins against God. It can and often does look just like possession.

Acts 5:1-3 Ac 5:1 ¶ But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land

Do not try to rationalize this; this Christian couple connived to cheat God of what they promised to give; WHY? because Satan had filled their hearts to do so. The Greek word for 'filled' is pleroo πληρόω which means to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow) (Strongs Exhaustive Concordance). Oh, yes, Satan was inside of Ananias and Peter said so. But that was not possession because they were Christians. It was oppression and Satan was a mere squatter.

Who do you think that Paul was warning in II Corinth. 10:4-5?

4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Question: Where are those 'strongholds? Outside or inside the believers mind?

Where are your imaginations? Inside or outside of your mind?

Where are your thoughts? Inside or outside of your mind?

Now if you will just be honest then there is NO other conclusion than the fact that Christians can have their minds invaded by strong men(devils) who build and man strongholds in the mind of believers who have the presence of unconfessed of sin. THERE IS NOT OTHER POSSIBLE CONCLUSION about this matter. It is not ambiguous nor is it hard to understand, it is just that most Christians like yourself cannot grasp the truth of it because of an inward prejudice....not because the scriptures don't teach it.

Do you hold that a real Christian can have God living in him in his soul, and yet have somehow satan in his mind?

 

[Calypsis4]

Do you hold that a real Christian can have God living in him in his soul, and yet have somehow satan in his mind?

Yes. Like the owner of a home who discovers the presence of a thief in his closet...and stands face to face with him: Yet they do not occupy the same space even though they are in the same house.

Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Acts 5: 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost...

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes. Like the owner of a home who discovers the presence of a thief in his closet...and stands face to face with him: They do not occupy the same space even though they are in the same house.

Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Acts 5: 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost...

Satan has NO legal hold over a Christian though, as they have been placed in the Kingdom of God, and do you really think that the Holy Spirit cannot overpower satan on behalf of a child of the Father?

 

[Calypsis4]

Satan has NO legal hold over a Christian though, as they have been placed in the Kingdom of God, and do you really think that the Holy Spirit cannot overpower satan on behalf of a child of the Father?

Of course the Holy Spirit overcomes Satan. He does so all the time........but only when the believer surrenders and confesses whatever sin the devils are standing on. Otherwise the strongholds only get stronger with time as the sins are repeated.

Best wishes and thank you for your sincere inquiries.:flower:

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course the Holy Spirit overcomes Satan. He does so all the time........but only when the believer surrenders and confesses whatever sin the devils are standing on. Otherwise the strongholds only get stronger with time as the sins are repeated.

Best wishes and thank you for your sincere inquiries.:flower:

Is that stronghold something fue to the christian not walking in obedience to jesus, but is still external thing, not that a Demon ever can get within them then?

 

[Calypsis4]

Is that stronghold something fue to the christian not walking in obedience to jesus, but is still external thing, not that a Demon ever can get within them then?

Well, my sincere inquiring friend, it is evident from the scriptures that the warfare (at least part of it is within the mind and/or heart).

Why should this worry you so? I have had strongholds before and all I had to do was admit my sin, confess it to the Lord and the stronghold was eliminated.
But nothing evil or violent happened to me and there were no supernatural manifestations when I did get things right with God. That's the way it is for most believers who live for Jesus Christ like they should. A minority manifest demons in some obvious way.

The woman I mentioned who underwent deliverance in 1994 had been playing around with witchcraft after she accepted Christ...so she paid the price of disobedience with some pretty violent attacks and she blacked out on us quite a few times with other personalities speaking through her.

 

[Van]

There is NO scripture that teaches it does not exist beyond the time of Jesus in the N.T.

Again, do we believe what is taught by scripture, or what is not precluded by scripture. For example, there is NO scripture that denies God did not put invisible pink elephants in orbit around Mars. But does that mean we should claim it is true? Of course not.

 

[Calypsis4]

Give us the time frame and/or date that demonic activity (possession & oppression) ceased in our world. Document it, please.

 

[Van]

Again, the issue is whether or not demonic possession has or has not ceased. No one (I know of) is claiming demonic activity (oppression) has ceased.

 

[Calypsis4]

Again, the issue is whether or not demonic possession has or has not ceased. No one (I know of) is claiming demonic activity (oppression) has ceased.

Then perhaps you need to restate the point you are trying to make.

Best wishes.

 

[Van]

Several verses suggest Satanic, and therefore possible demonic, on-going active. Ephesians 2:2, for example tells us of evil oppression among the sons of disobedience. Then we find Acts 5:3 where Satan has "filled the heart" of Ananias. We are for sure in a spiritual battle with the forces of evil. But to claim this still includes possession has little support. But we cannot rule it out either.