Wouldn't you want to be blessed by Jesus Himself?

[CatholicConvert]

There could be no eternal advantage to joining certain activities. It didn't keep the thief on the cross or the thousands upon thousands who were saved in bible times without involvement in the Catholic Church out of heaven.

This is an interesting statement, for the people who were in the Old Covenant had certain physical requirements of the faith they had back then.

For instance, if you read Genesis 12 - 17, you will see that God placed a high premium upon circumcision, so high, in fact, that He said that anyone who was not circumcized was "cut off" from the family of God on earth, the kingdom. We see that sins were not forgiven except by the bringing of animal sacrifices.

At one time, a bronze serpent was constructed for the salvation of those who had been bitten by serpents. There is a Temple and all that was associated with the Temple.

These same things would have been used by the thief on the cross next to Jesus. He would have been one of those who would have used them to his benefit. The idea that the Sacraments as found in the Catholic Faith did not benefit the thief is failing to take into consideration that the New Covenant was not begun yet.

Yes, there is a "bare bones" salvation. There is getting into the kingdom with the smell of judgment fire and smoke on your soul. There are also levels of heaven. Why would you wish to settle for the least rather than strive for the best? The Sacraments are that aid to reach higher and higher in our lives, not settle for the crumbs off God's table.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

 

[Singer]

The idea that the Sacraments as found in the Catholic Faith did not
benefit the thief is failing to take into consideration that the New
Covenant was not begun yet.

Ed, you shot your own theory to pieces. Those who believed in Jesus
as the Son of God were receiving salvation on those terms when the
thief was on the cross.....as did he. Was not the old covenant already
kabosh.....much like your theories ?

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by CatholicConvert:
Human closeness, human warmpth and love, expressed in touching, is a faint picture of the blessed union we will have with our Lord forever. I have spoken of this before. The union of two who are married in the marital bed, the pleasure and joy of such intimacy, is a picture and type of the wonderful intimate union of love we will have with God forever. That is why we are called the Bride of Christ.

Then why celibacy in the church?

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by CatholicConvert:

Yes, there is a "bare bones" salvation. There is getting into the kingdom with the smell of judgment fire and smoke on your soul. There are also levels of heaven. Why would you wish to settle for the least rather than strive for the best? The Sacraments are that aid to reach higher and higher in our lives, not settle for the crumbs off God's table.

Please share scripture reference for the quote above.
Murph

 

[CatholicConvert]

Ed, you shot your own theory to pieces. Those who believed in Jesus as the Son of God were receiving salvation on those terms when the
thief was on the cross.....as did he. Was not the old covenant already kabosh.....much like your theories

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

You know, Singer, if'n you knew half as much Bible as you think you do.....you'd become Catholic TOMORROW.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

 

[CatholicConvert]

Then why celibacy in the church?

Celebacy is the voluntary sacrifice of that which is legitimate for a higher service to others. Same thing as fasting. Eating is perfectly legitimate and enjoyable, yet there are times in the year when we eat very little, especially the 40 day Lenten Fast. We do this voluntarily to draw closer to the Lord and examine our lives before Him.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

 

[CatholicConvert]

Yes, there is a "bare bones" salvation. There is getting into the kingdom with the smell of judgment fire and smoke on your soul. There are also levels of heaven. Why would you wish to settle for the least rather than strive for the best? The Sacraments are that aid to reach higher and higher in our lives, not settle for the crumbs off God's table.


Please share scripture reference for the quote above.

Not sure which one you want, so I will do both:

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Saved but as by fire. A very smokey Christian, having gone through the fires of God's cleansing.

Da 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

As opposed to those who do not turn many to righteousness and therefore will not shine as the starts for ever.

There are also different degrees of angels in Heaven, from archangels to the lowest angels. Catholic theology speaks of nine choruses of angels. Peter Kreeft has a good answer for this from his book ANGELS AND DEMONS.

Brother Ed

 

[Singer]

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of
no strength at all while the testator liveth.

You know, Singer, if'n you knew half as much Bible as you think you do.....
you'd become Catholic TOMORROW.

Ed, it seems you mean to say that redemption via faith through Jesus is only
operable after His death and therefore the thief on the cross could not
have been saved by the same faith that saves us today. That's what your
previous posts seem to portray. And here again we see your responsive
personal attacks when someone gets close to upsetting your Catholic Applecart !

*Note*

Understanding the bible doesn't bring one to Catholicism as you mention.
Coersion by Catholics is what brings people to Catholicism.
Jesus never introduced anyone to Catholicism , much the same as Fred Flintstone
never built a Ford. (But he had a vehicle of transportation).

Our vehicle of transportation to heaven is the Man, Jesus Christ.
He has beat out the pope, Mary, Mass, Eucharist and the Catholic Church in
the race.

"No man shall come unto the Father but by Me"

There is no other avenue. Catholicism can preach it's importance all it wants.....
it is falling on deaf ears here.

May God lead you back to where you were.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by CatholicConvert:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Then why celibacy in the church?

Celebacy is the voluntary sacrifice of that which is legitimate for a higher service to others. Same thing as fasting. Eating is perfectly legitimate and enjoyable, yet there are times in the year when we eat very little, especially the 40 day Lenten Fast. We do this voluntarily to draw closer to the Lord and examine our lives before Him.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed </font>[/QUOTE]I believe God's plan was for a man and woman to marry(ref. Mark 10)

BTW, why wait until then to fast? Is this church tradition?


To God be the glory,

HomeBound

 

[LaRae]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by CatholicConvert:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Then why celibacy in the church?

Celebacy is the voluntary sacrifice of that which is legitimate for a higher service to others. Same thing as fasting. Eating is perfectly legitimate and enjoyable, yet there are times in the year when we eat very little, especially the 40 day Lenten Fast. We do this voluntarily to draw closer to the Lord and examine our lives before Him.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed </font>[/QUOTE]I believe God's plan was for a man and woman to marry(ref. Mark 10)

BTW, why wait until then to fast? Is this church tradition?


To God be the glory,

HomeBound </font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps you have forgotten what St Paul had to say about celibacy.....and I don't mean the part about "burning".


LaRae

 

[Singer]

You know, Singer, if'n you knew half as much Bible as you think you do.....you'd become
Catholic TOMORROW.

Billy Graham knows alot more bible than I do and he's not Catholic !!!
Martin Luther " " " " "
Charles Stanley
Chuch Swindall
etc.
etc.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by LaRae:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HomeBound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by CatholicConvert:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Then why celibacy in the church?

Celebacy is the voluntary sacrifice of that which is legitimate for a higher service to others. Same thing as fasting. Eating is perfectly legitimate and enjoyable, yet there are times in the year when we eat very little, especially the 40 day Lenten Fast. We do this voluntarily to draw closer to the Lord and examine our lives before Him.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed </font>[/QUOTE]I believe God's plan was for a man and woman to marry(ref. Mark 10)

BTW, why wait until then to fast? Is this church tradition?


To God be the glory,

HomeBound </font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps you have forgotten what St Paul had to say about celibacy.....and I don't mean the part about "burning".


LaRae </font>[/QUOTE]I have, please refresh my mind.

 

[CatholicConvert]

Billy Graham knows alot more bible than I do and he's not Catholic !!!
Martin Luther " " " " "
Charles Stanley
Chuck Swindoll

Since 1500 years of Christians were of the Catholic Faith, both Latin West and Eastern Orthodox, I think they know very little of the Scriptures other than what they have been taught to believe.

What you do find is that there is a growing number of Protestants who, upon deep and reflective examination of the Scriptures, are returning to the Catholic Faith.

It doesn't take any special knowledge to get a "doctorate". Just learn the passages your denomination teaches you and regurgitate them in front of a committee.

But does that mean you KNOW the Bible.

Nope.

And many, many Protestant preachers are returning Home to the Catholic Faith when they discover the deeper teachings of Scripture.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

 

[LadyEagle]

I already am blest by Jesus Himself. I am blest every day, every breath I take. Jesus is with me all the time, every moment. I don't need some other person to "stand in for Jesus" in order to feel blessed.

Now it's nice to get hugged. That's one thing about Christians. We are a huggie bunch. And when we hug, we are showing the Love of Jesus. My pastor & I hug. And my pastor's wife & I hug. But never once do I think he is standing in for Jesus. Never. He's my brother in Christ & I love him, but he's not Jesus! So why pretend?

When I go to heaven, I don't care about streets of gold. I don't care about mansions. I don't care about the glories of heaven that I can't even imagine.

It'll be nice to see my loved ones and relatives and friends who have gone on before me.

But when I think of heaven, and what I want most of all, is for Jesus, Himself, to hug me. That's it.

In the meantime, I feel blessed just to know Him and know He loves me. And the biggest blessing of all will be when Jesus gives me a great big ole hug. Not a pastor or priest. Not a substitute. But Jesus Himself.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by CatholicConvert:
[QB]

The Sacraments are that aid to reach higher and higher in our lives, not settle for the crumbs off God's table.


Please share scripture reference for the quote above.

 

[Singer]

Since 1500 years of Christians were of the Catholic Faith, both Latin West
and Eastern Orthodox, I think they know very little of the Scriptures other
than what they have been taught to believe.

Ed, what do you supposed happened to those Christians that were operating
outside of the apostle's group when Jesus walked the earth. You must either
think they evolved into Catholics or else died out for 1500 years. We both
know that's an unreasonable assumption.

Quite possibly the RCC killed the most of them, but to think that the Catholic
Church was the only one for 1500 years is a far stretch of the mind.

Look at it this way; Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it
(the church) and even though Catholicism tried its best to suppress the Gospel,
it survived and got new life with the birth of Protestantism and is on the
increase yet today.

Catholicism could have prevailed against the Gospel, but God promised that
would never happen and it hasn't.

 

[GraceSaves]

Singer,

Thank you for your admitted work of fiction (see all the "could haves" and "quite possiblys" in your last post). When fiction becomes an acceptable form of history, remind me not to pursue a bachelor's in that area! In the mean time, good luck impressing those who won't bother to look anything up and trust what you said on face value. I'm not one of those people, fortunately, and I know better.

God bless you,

Grant

 

[Singer]

Why pursue a bachelor's degree at all, Grant. Just continue to fall
hook-line-and-sinker for what you've allowed others to interpret for
you.

It's a No-Brainer......you don't need common sense at all !!

 

[CatholicConvert]

Since 1500 years of Christians were of the Catholic Faith, both Latin West and Eastern Orthodox, I think they know very little of the Scriptures other than what they have been taught to believe.

Ed, what do you supposed happened to those Christians that were operating outside of the apostle's group when Jesus walked the earth.

I hardly know how to respond to such a statement. Jesus established the apostles and gave to them the governance of the Church and yet you would say that there were Christians outside the Church!! I think you are way too influenced by modern Protestant thought which says that if you don't like the leadership in a church you can go somewhere else and start your own body. Jesus established one Church and one Faith, not many.

You must either think they evolved into Catholics or else died out for 1500 years. We both know that's an unreasonable assumption.

"Catholic" comes from the Greek "katholicos" and it means "universal". There was only one Faith for 1500 years - it was the Faith which was universally believed by all You seem to be assuming, if I am reading your post correctly, that there was an "underground church" of true believers who were not of the universal church.

Quite possibly the RCC killed the most of them, but to think that the Catholic Church was the only one for 1500 years is a far stretch of the mind.

Typical slander. I didn't say the Catholic Church. Go back up to the top and re read my quote. I said the CATHOLIC FAITH. That is the universal Faith which resided in the East and the West for 1500 years. It's principle foundations are the 7 Sacraments, which Protestantism does not have.

Yes, there were other bodies claiming to be "Christians". There were Arians, Montanists, Docetists, Sabellians, Monophysites, Monothellites, and a host of others who rejected the Faith Catholic.

The Early Fathers had another name for them -- heretics!!

Cordially in Christ and the Blessed Virgin,


Brother Ed

 

[Singer]

Originally posted by CatholicConvert:

I hardly know how to respond to such a statement. Jesus established the apostles and gave to them the governance of the Church and yet you would say that there were Christians outside the Church!! I think you are way too influenced by modern Protestant thought which says that if you don't like the leadership in a church you can go somewhere else and start your own body. Jesus established one Church and one Faith, not many.

I'm ashamed of you for thinking and stating that there are not Christians outside of the
Catholic Church. You attain these misconceptions by being so geared to the thought
that Catholicism holds some magical power and appointment. If you'd give up trying
to be first in everything, you could see through the haze of reason.

"Catholic" comes from the Greek "katholicos" and it means "universal". There was only one Faith for 1500 years - it was the Faith which was universally believed by all You seem to be assuming, if I am reading your post correctly, that there was an "underground church" of true believers who were not of the universal church.

How would you describe the "others" that Luke 9 explains. You can't even rightfully
consider the faith that John had as Catholic. So who were these of faith who were
with Jesus in this instance (They surely were not Catholics) and who were those
who were casting out devils in "thy name" who John questioned? (They surely were
not Catholics either). So here we have one faith that was in operation that was
recognized by Jesus himself and when questioned, Jesus hereby referred again to
"Whosoever". That is the downfall of those who try to be first in the Kingdom.
The same verse (48) that appoints "Whosoever" as a child of God also reprimands
he who would attempt to be great among you. Catholicism makes those erotic
claims of firstness and greatness and exclusivitity. Jesus may have been warning
us of Catholicism in that verse.

Luke 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my
name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that
sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils
in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against
us is for us.

Yes, there were other bodies claiming to be "Christians". There were Arians, Montanists, Docetists, Sabellians, Monophysites, Monothellites, and a host of others who rejected the Faith Catholic.

There was faith before Catholicism, Ed.

Cordially in Christ regardless of the Ex-virgin, Mary

Singer