Wrongly Dividing the Word:

[vooks]

Isaiah 56:6-7 (KJV)
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord,
to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord,
to be his servants,
every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it,
and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain,
and make them joyful in my house of prayer:
their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar;
for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.



Isaiah 66:23 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another,
shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

I lost count of the instances these verses are thrown around by Sabbatarians as 'proof' of sabbath keeping in eternity. Their zeal is founded in either dishonesty, ignorance or both.

Let's start with 56:6-7
It is true sons of strangers are enjoined to keep sabbath. This is used to show that God requires Gentiles as well and not just Jews to keep his sabbath. Is this a smoking gun?
Look at v7- 'their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar;'
The strangers burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted. But we know burnt sacrifices are no part of NT and we don't imagine they will resume in future.

If this verse is proof of sabbath keeping for MANKIND and eternity, it is equally proof of burnt offerings for the MANKIND and eternity. Quite preposterous

And 66:23
Note it is not worshipping God ON sabbath but FROM sabbath to sabbath. This is simply an expression of continuous worship. A similar phrase is 'day after day' as in Acts 5:42. But Sabbatarians counter by saying the very mention of sabbath means it will be kept. Let's work with that. Note the phrase just before - 'from one new moon to another,'

If the context is eternity and sabbath is mentioned, and if it's mention means it is kept, then mention of New moon means the monthly feast is also kept in eternity. Very few Sabbatarians are into Jewish feasts. What's their take? They ignore this.

Much as we are to contend for our faith, supporting our faith using dishonesty is not the way to go. If your doctrine requires lies to prop it, perhaps it is time you discarded it

 

[vooks]

hebrews 9:4 (KJV)
Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant

Revelation 11:19 (KJV)
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

For some,scriptures are not enough; they resort to visions or hallucinations and add to them :tonofbricks:

In the ark, was the golden pot of manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of stone which folded together like a book. [Hebrews 9:4.] Jesus opened them, and I saw the ten commandments written on them with the finger of God. [Exodus 31:18.] On one table was four, and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth (the Sabbath commandment,) shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God’s holy name.[Isaiah 58:13, 14.] The holy Sabbath looked glorious—a halo of glory was all around it. I saw that the Sabbath was not nailed to the cross.

http://egwtext.whiteestate.org/publ...en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=18&m=1

OBSERVATIONS
1.The ark of the covenant is seen in heaven
2. The ark of the covenant contains the stone tablets with the Ten Commandments


CONCLUSION
Sabbath keeping is eternal as it is recorded in heaven!

Sounds smart until you realize there are other commandments which are redundant.

'do not kill'
At resurrection, mortality is clothed with immortality, death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire. So, who risks dying to warrant a commandment against killing?

Honor your father and mother
But I thought at regeneration there is neither marriage nor giving in marriage. Will we have parents in heaven? Or we should honor those who died older than us? Methuselah the oldest guy, if he made it, he gets all the honors seeing he the oldest:laugh:

Do not commit adultery
But there is no marriage and families.

Do not steal
Steal what? BobRyan's bling?

Moving on, what about the other components of the ark? What is the functional value of a budding rod? A confirmation of Aaron as a priest when everyone is a kingdom of priests? What about the manna?

Revelation 21:22-24 (ESV)
22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there

Towards the end, John sees no temple and its absence is promptly explained; God is the temple. and if there is no temple, then all the temple components are non existent; no golden censers, ark, curtains....

There is no night. How would you count days to remember the seventh seeing there are no evenings and mornings?

 

[vooks]

As usual, lame apologies abound and are worth a dime a dozen


Let's look at one attempt to refute the Wisdom with which I have burst their Isaiah 56 arguments.

How then to oppose this part of the word of God - some may ask.
Well if we ignore anything in the OT where people ALSO worship God via animal sacrifice - then we get to toss out a lot of what the NT authors keep referring to as "scripture".

We do not 'ignore anything', we rightly divide the word. A scripture showing Gentiles keeping sabbath alongside another showing them offering animal sacrifices means BOTH of them are as relevant. Unlike BobRyan, God does not mince words. It is clear Isaiah 56 was addressing men under the OT and that's why God included aspects of the Law (currently OBSOLETE to us)

Such eisegetical methods simply do not work.

Yes BobRyan, you cherry pick what God is saying to Gentiles. You toss out animal sacrifices and you keep sabbath. Why? Because you are reading INTO the text. At the back of your funny head, you are thinking, 'animal sacrifices are obsolete, but sabbath is eternal'. You are reading this bias of yours into Isaiah, and then you use it as proof of your bias!

If you want to prove sabbath is for Gentiles, please use something else

The fact that the saints of Heb 11 ALSO offered animal sacrifices is no proof at all that the moral LAW of God is deleted.

Here is how I pick what to keep and what to discard from OT. If it is REPEATED,modified,not forbidden, I keep it, else I discard it. This is why I don't anoint rocks like Jacob and Abraham but I believe and am accounted righteous

You 'still' should not take God's name in vain - even though it is never quoted in the OT - even though saints in the OT that did not take God's name in vain ALSO offered animal sacrifices.

BobRyan is desperate. With such CLEAR warnings against blasphemy, who needs taking the Lord's name in vain spelt out for them? More importantly, Isaiah 56 is no proof of Gentile keeping sabbath any more than it is of them offering sacrifices. Simple...so simple it hurts

The really "sad" part of the post above where the author tries to refute God's Word in Is 56 is that it was "pretended" that only those who keep the Bible Sabbath would even notice these texts that point to the moral obligation on even gentiles to keep the Sabbath Commandment.

There is nothing moral in the sabbath. Bleat it 100000 times and it still remains. You don't bleat morality into a commandment. The context of Isaiah 56 is clearly pre-Calvary. When it 'seemed good' to the Jerusalem Council and Holy Spirit to not impose circumcision to Gentiles, I suppose they were refuting God's word.

In any case, what is a MORAL COMMANDMENT/OBLIGATION?

So then - is it really true that only those who keep the Bible Sabbath would notice this?

in Christ,

Bob

it is Sabbatarians who mercilessly butcher scriptures. They are the ones offering Isaiah 56 as proof of sabbath in eternity not to mention as a requirement for Gentiles. I just responded to this nonsense with the hammer of God and now they are whining

 

[vooks]

You can WRONGLY divide the word by misquoting scriptures or by half-truths. A perfect example of blatant half-truth here. Try and spot it

yet Christ was not at all pleased with even the most minor edit/modify of one of the Ten Commandments -

[FONT=&quot]Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When Christ speaks of one of the Ten Commandments He tells us that they are the “Word of God” – the “Commandment of God” and “Moses said”

[FONT=&quot]Notice that in thi[FONT=&quot]s case in Mark 7 the Jews [FONT=&quot]are "making stuff [FONT=&quot]up" in their [FONT=&quot]baptizing the cups and pots - regar[FONT=&quot]ding what you [FONT=&quot]"eat and [FONT=&quot]drink" - regar[FONT=&quot]ding food and drink - being con[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]taminated[/FONT] by sin - Christ in Mark 7 declares that to be [FONT=&quot]nonsense even before the cross.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]

Seen it?

yet Christ was not at all pleased with even the most minor edit/modify of one of the Ten Commandments -

What is the commandment of God in this verse?

10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

A. Honor thy father and mother
B. Whoso curse the father or mother let him die the death

The answer is BOTH of them. The first one tells you to honor your parents and the other one tells you not to curse them else you should be killed.

But BobRyan ONLY sees Jesus offended at modification of the former which is one of the Ten Commandments. Why is this? If he admitted that Jesus was equally offended at modification of a commandment outside the Ten, he'd be I trouble because as a Christian he lives out innumerable modifications such as circumcision. So he will use Mark to show you that Jesus would not have the Ten modified but not the rest.

How is it a half-truth? It is true Jesus was offended at modification/editing of the Ten Commandment. But it is false that Jesus was offended at just that, he was offended over voiding of any part of the law
Matthew 5:18 (KJV)
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled

Luke 16:17 (KJV)
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

 

[vooks]

Another example. Of wrongly dividing scriptures

Yes that would be helpful.

from page 1 -- scripture that is not always welcome within a given man-made tradition


10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10


=========================

Christ's thinking on the subject of breaking one of God's Commandments by claiming to bend-edit slightly-modify one of them.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

The Ten Commandments are commandments of God according to Nehemiah 10:29

Nehemiah 10:29 (KJV)
They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;
What part of this verse says the Ten Commandments are commandments of God or the Law of God? Who says Nehemiah had the Ten Commandments in mind?
This is the height of desperation. Lord have mercy on them

Mark 7:7-13
We have tackled that. Both honoring and not cursing parents were 'said' by Moses and are commandments but somebody won't have none of that, only one of those is a commandment the other one presumably Moses'opinion

 

[vooks]

Here is another ridiculously lame attempt at spinning Isaiah 66
Isaiah 66:23 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another,
shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

The argument goes like this;
1.Isaiah 66 may be having eternity in mind here
2. Isaiah mentions sabbath

Conclusion
There will be sabbath in eternity

But the same verse mentions new moon. New Moon is not a month but a monthly Jewish feast. Let's study it a bit
Numbers 10:10 (KJV)
Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God: I am the Lord your God.
More details of what is to be offered are found in Numbers 28:11-15. So New moon is a feast.

Now let's watch somebody attempt to wriggle out of this; upholding sabbath from Isaiah 6623 while discarding New Moon

Let's take a look at the verse again, shall we, and see who is actually lying, or really deceived?

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. - Isaiah 66:22

[Remember in Isaiah 56:5, the "everlasting name" given to us by God?, Here it is again as "your name remain", even as the "new heavens and the new earth", "shall remain before" God ever and always. Thus the two passages are connected, even as both mention the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, as being throughout eternity, kept by the "sons" [and "daughters"], the "disciples" of Jesus, etc.]​

And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. - Isaiah 66:23​

Please notice the context, is "from" "one" "new moon" "to" "another", first, which declares a specific day. This is seen in fulfillment in Revelation, in the New Heaven and New Earth, at the Tree of Life:

And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine. - Ezekiel 47:12

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. - Revelation 2:7

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:2

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14

[See also: Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in. - Isaiah 26:2

Thou [art] near, O LORD; and all thy commandments [are] truth. - Psalm 119:151

Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth. - Psalm 119:142

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. - 1 John 2:4]​

Then, we see "and" "from" "one" "sabbath" "to" "another". Notice the language again of specificity, that it is counted "from" "one sabbath", unto all other sabbaths to be had in eternity, unbroken cycles of weeks [culminating in Sabbath] and months [culminating in New Months/Moons]. In order to be "from" that "one sabbath", we must be in that sabbath, even as several Holy 7th Day Sabbaths of the LORD thy God are in every "month" [minimally 4], for the passage specifically includes the Sabbaths of each New Month to be had in eternity.

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name: - Jeremiah 31:35

If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. - Jeremiah 31:36​

Nothing is ignored, except upon the part of those who continually, willfully, stubbornly, and stiffneckedly choose to turn away from the Light given them, in abundance, pressed down and shaken together. The LORD rebuke all who war against His Law, His Character, His Kingdom, His people, in His time, and in His way.

"For we know that the law is spiritual..." Romans 7:14

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. - 1 Corinthians 2:13​

Yet the carnal mind cannot understand God's Law, for it is spiritual, and they do not desire to be subject to it, nor to Him:

Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. - Romans 8:7​

Look at this statement closely.

Then, we see "and" "from" "one" "sabbath" "to" "another". Notice the language again of specificity, that it is counted "from" "one sabbath", unto all other sabbaths to be had in eternity, unbroken cycles of weeks [culminating in Sabbath] and months [culminating in New Months/Moons]. In order to be "from" that "one sabbath", we must be in that sabbath, even as several Holy 7th Day Sabbaths of the LORD thy God are in every "month" [minimally 4], for the passage specifically includes the Sabbaths of each New Month to be had in eternity.

The hapless apologist would have you believe that new moon is not a feast but a calendar month but sabbath is not a mere seventh day of the calendar week but sabbath keeping.

So in the entire scriptures, New Moon means a monthly Jewish feast but in Isaiah, 66:23, it means month. There is a Hebrew word for month and it is not New Moon.

Am not surprised. Peter by inspiration of Holy Spirit aptly describes them
2 Peter 3:16 (KJV)
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
They;
1. are UNLEARNED
2. are UNSTABLE
3. WREST scriptures to their destruction

 

[vooks]

Isaiah 56:6-7 (KJV)
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord,
to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord,
to be his servants,
every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it,
and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain,
and make them joyful in my house of prayer:
their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar;

For the benefit of those joining us allow me to quickly take you through this verse.

Some have vigorously maintained that this is proof of God enjoining Gentiles to keep sabbath and sabbath is to be kept in eternity.

I have wisely pointed to them that the same verse talks of Gentiles offering bunt sacrifices and offerings yet nobody in their right mind imagines burnt offerings and sacrifices in eternity.

The first apologist argued that the verse could be having some moral and ceremonial obligations and we should pick the moral and drop the ceremonial. The problem is If God is talking about eternity, BOTH 'moral' and 'ceremonial' obligations are equally relevant. So it's clear we have not eternity in perspective.

The second apologist is more daring. He insists the sacrifices and the sabbath are both eternal but the sacrifices are 'spiritual' and not burnt offerings as such. You can read about his fickle apology right here;
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2224730&postcount=1
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2224731&postcount=2

I admit they may be spiritual sacrifices. But I ask, why can't the sabbath keeping in question be spiritual as well?:tonofbricks:

Hebrews 4 is quite clear on sabbath rest. Over and above being a memorial for creation, it points forward to our rest in Christ. That's why Colossians 2:16 says it's reality is in Christ.
Hebrews 4:4-5 (KJV)
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Hebrews 4:8-11
(KJV) For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief

Of course being a Sabbatarian, he would NEVER attempt to spiritualize sabbath because that's his identity. It's like stopping a first century Jew from keeping Passover since Christ is our Passover. Little wonder Jewishness pervaded the first century church

 

[vooks]

Apologists need basic bible literacy skills else they be embarrassment to their sects

Excellent and Scriptural observations. Please also take note that the Stone Tables were made of the Blue Sapphire from the very Throne of God itself.

The Ten Commandments were cut from this crystal blue sapphire throne of God [Exodus 24:10,12 [Hebrew: "tables of the Stone"; definite article [Heb. "הָאֶבֶן"; Heb. Tr. "häeven"], question then becomes, What stone? The very blue sapphire stone of the Throne of God in the very same context], and Exodus 28:28,31,37, 31:18, 32:16 "And the tables [were] the work of God, and the writing [was] the writing of God, graven upon the tables." and Exodus 39:21-22,31; Numbers 15:38-41; Ezekiel 1:22,26, 10:1]

Even the Legends of the Jews, by Louis Ginzberg, picked up on this,

"...Moses departed from the heavens with the two tables on which the Ten Commandments were engraved, and just the words of it are by nature Divine, so too are the tables on which they are engraved. These were created by God's own hand in the dusk of the first Sabbath at the close of the creation, and were made of a sapphire-like stone...." - Legends of the Jews, Volume 3, page 258 - http://archive.org/stream/legendsofthejews02881gut/3lotj10.txt

"...state that the sapphire employed for the tables was taken from the throne of Glory..." - Legends of the Jews, Volume 6; page 49 [see also page 59] - https://books.google.com/books?ei=U...+Jews+volume+6&q=sapphire&hl=en#search_anchor​

Also according to the Targum,

"...Then it was said to Moses: 83 "Ascend to the firmament and I will give you two tables of stone, 84 hewn from the sapphire of the throne of My glory, 85 gleaming like fine gold, arranged in lines 86 and written by My finger. 87 Engraved on them are the Ten Words, 88 refined more than silver that has been refined seven times seven [ways] -- that is the sum total of the principles..." - The Aramiac Bible, the Targums; by Phillip Alexander, page 89-90 [especially see Note 85] - https://books.google.com/books?id=hDwnbqLbwqgC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false​

The works of his hands [are] verity and judgment; all his commandments [are] sure. Psalms 111:7​

God carved the Ten Commandments with his own Finger ["...written with the finger of God." Exodus 31:18; "...written with the finger of God..." Deuteronomy 9:10], the very work of His own hands [Exodus 32:16].

They stand fast for ever and ever, [and are] done in truth and uprightness. Psalms 111:8

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever. Psalms 111:10​

God directly spoke the Ten Commandments aloud to all, from Heaven [Deuteronomy 4:12,15,33,36, 5:4,22,23,24,26, 9:10, 10:4, etc]:

My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Psalms 89:34​

Exodus 34:1 (KJV)
And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest

Deuteronomy 10:1 (ESV)
At that time the Lord said to me, Cut for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and come up to me on the mountain


We see God commanding Moses to make two stone tablets just like the first. But somebody would have you believe that the stone table came from a rock in heaven. It is important to note that the first set was destroyed by Moses in anger. And God quickly moved on, the first pair lay in ruins. Whatever was kept in the ark was the second pair which was prepared by Moses. Since God asked him to prepare them before he met him, it is well unlikely that God gave him the rocks before. And secondly, seeing he was to prepare them just like the first suggests he used the same piece of rock, readily available from the mountain bottom. :tonofbricks:

Ellen White ADDED to scriptures, intruding into things unseen, vainly puffed up by her fleshly mind.
Colossians 2:18 (KJV)
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind

Leaving EGW aside, let's also observe blatant misquoting.

Psalms 89:34 (KJV)
34 My covenant will I not break,
nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

This is presented as evidence of perpetuity of the Sinai covenant. Is it? Whether it is perpetual or not, Psalms is not. Talking about it. And besides, circumcision was part of the Sinai covenant as well and nobody circumcises now

Psalms 89:34-38 (KJV)
34 My covenant will I not break,
nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness
that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure for ever,
and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon,
and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

The covenant in question here is the promise God made to David to have a king after him who is Christ and whose reign is eternal.

And finally, another falsehood

God directly spoke the Ten Commandments aloud to all, from Heaven [Deuteronomy 4:12,15,33,36, 5:4,22,23,24,26, 9:10, 10:4, etc]:

Exodus 20:21-26 (ESV)
22 And the Lord said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the people of Israel: ‘You have seen for yourselves that I have talked with you from heaven. 23 You shall not make gods of silver to be with me, nor shall you make for yourselves gods of gold. 24 An altar of earth you shall make for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen. In every place where I cause my name to be remembered I will come to you and bless you. 25 If you make me an altar of stone, you shall not build it of hewn stones, for if you wield your tool on it you profane it. 26 And you shall not go up by steps to my altar, that your nakedness be not exposed on it.’

Here is God speaking from heaven, speaking 'ceremonial laws' and not the Ten Commandments. Note He spoke to Moses not everyone. Why so?
Exodus 20:18 (ESV)
18 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off

And this is right after the Ten Commandments

 

[vooks]

This one makes little sense
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2224738&postcount=7

But by God's eternal grace I will attempt a response

However, notice the words, "Thou shalt not kill." are a promise of God in His so great Salvation!, for notice that Paul says:

Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise - Ephesians 6:2

That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. - Ephesians 6:3​

The 5th Commandment, speaks of the eternal inheritance, of the New Heavens and New Earth:

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. - Exodus 20:12​

How do you jump from earth to New Earth?
Believers in the new earth have ETERNAL life already. Honoring your parents then if at all won't earn you a consecutive eternity. Eternal means without end. How much more will honoring your folks earn you!

Thus, the other commandments on the Second Table that follow it, are also promises. God promises [and who cannot lie, two immutable things], to write His Law within/upon our heart, that we may do them forever, and so, he promises us that we:

...shalt not kill [murder],
... shalt not commit adultery,
... shalt not steal,
... shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour, [near brother] [no lying ever again, for only Truth will remain, no guile found in their mouths, etc]
... shalt not covet...anything that is thy neighbours. [for the life is filled up with self-less service, self-less sacrifice, like as Christ Jesus].​

And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. - Luke 11:2​

And you have done zilch to show how practical they are including explaining whether there will be marriage in heaven. Is there a possibility of sinning in eternity? What happens to sinners in eternity? There will be several other judgements beyond Revelation 20's?

Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. - Isaiah 49:15

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. - Galatians 4:26

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire. - Daniel 7:9

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. - Daniel 7:13

Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. - Daniel 7:22

With the ancient [is] wisdom; and in length of days understanding. - Job 12:12

More nonsensical quotations with zero bearing on the subject.

Always thinking of the carnal, the flesh... it begins in the heart, and includes more than flesh,, for the Law is "spiritual" [Romans 7:14] and adultery includes idolatry, turning away from God, breaking the relationship with Him, for another, etc.

And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. - Jeremiah 3:8

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. - Matthew 5:28

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. - Revelation 2:22

I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, [and] thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when [shall it] once [be]? - Jeremiah 13:27

Plead with your mother, plead: for she [is] not my wife, neither [am] I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts; - Hosea 2:2

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: - Matthew 15:19

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, - Mark 7:21​

You are completely confused. Whereas idolatry is represented as adultery in the scriptures,in the Ten Commandments, adultery means exactly that because you already have a commandment against idolatry unless you mean we actually have 9 commandments with one mentioned twice, once as adultery and the other instance as idolatry.

Time can be stolen. Affection can be stolen, etc. And rebellion is kin to thievery, for notice in Satan's rebellion he took with him in his rebellion very many. Worship can be stolen, robbed of Glory. It is not only monies that can be stolen.

Time stolen and taken where?
You need to start thinking. There will be no sin nor possibility of sinning in heaven.

Stolen waters are sweet, and bread [eaten] in secret is pleasant. - Proverbs 9:17

Thy princes [are] rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them. - Isaiah 1:23

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven..." - Revelation 12:4 [1/3 is symbolical of a great portion]

I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. - Isaiah 42:8​

That is why God said to not make images to bow down and serve them, even of the things in Heaven, or even to portray God through such.

And there will be other judgements in heaven to punish sinners in eternity?

The Rod that budded is the anointed Mediatorship of Christ Jesus. The Manna, His eternal word.

Nonsense.
Jesus' mediation is not eternal, he only mediates TILL eternity. He stands in the chasm between fallen man and God. Once we are reconciled back to God in eternity, his role ceases.
The pot of manna was a memorial, not to be eaten my brother. If the eternal word is locked up in a chest called the ark, then what do you have?

And how comes you can spiritualize everything away except the tablets? You dread seeing the reality of sabbath. You are content with shadows, ignoring the reality that is Christ

Actually John sees no temple "in" the City. See Ezekiel.

Also, only "in" the City, will the redeemed have "no need" of the Sun, though it [as Moon and stars] still shines in eternity, being set for seasons, times, days and years, etc, but because of the Glory of God "in" the city ["therein"], it will outshine them there, and so no "night there", in the city, and they [Sun, Moon and stars] will be put to shame therein. it would be like turning on a flashlight in the middle of the desert noonday sun.

Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. - Isaiah 24:23​

See:

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, - Revelation 21:10

Having the glory of God: and her light [was] like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; - Revelation 21:11

And the twelve gates [were] twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city [was] pure gold, as it were transparent glass. - Revelation 21:21

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. - Revelation 21:22

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof. - Revelation 21:23

And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. - Revelation 21:24

And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. - Revelation 21:25​

You need to get serious.
What EXISTS outside New Jerusalem?
Your idea of New Jerusalem is a giant golden space ship?:laugh:

There is no temple because God is the temple not because the temple is some place outside.

Ezekiel's temple was a conditional promise and Israel never kept their part of the bargain. It will never be built. And in any case, it was full of animal sacrifices which should tell you it was pre-Calvary :smilewinkgrin:

 

[vooks]

More example of wrongly dividing the word.

Isaiah 56 points to gentiles keeping the Sabbath in the OT

At least this one admits Isaiah 56 is OT and not eternal focussed. Animal sacrifices from the same were equally made for Gentiles:smilewinkgrin:

-- making Christ's statement in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind" even more obvious as it is true that even in the OT - the gentiles were to keep the Sabbath.

but of course, it was not made for animals

How interesting then that even a great many pro-SUNDAY groups admit to this basic fact that the Sabbath obligation applieseven to gentiles.

in Christ,

Bob

Shadow boxing with 'pro-Sunday groups' is a terminal illness

 

[vooks]

What apologists thrive at, muddying the subject with mindless and endless quotations while judiciously avoiding the question(s)

All good quotations, and excellent references. Thank you for sharing them. They help demonstrate what is going on in these verses I already cited. I hope one does not think that the Trumpets are going to disappear, for God himself has a Trumpet, as do the angels in Heaven, which they use in worship of God, and so also shall we:

And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south. - Zechariah 9:14

Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. - Psalm 81:3

With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King. - Psalm 98:6

Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. - Psalm 150:3

And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. - Revelation 8:2

And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. - Revelation 8:6

etc.​

No brother, you might have seriously mistaken what was stated, and so I invite you to go back and to re-read what was given, more closely, once more, here - http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2224733&postcount=4

The New Moon [in its "specific day"], as well as The Sabbath [and likewise "the language again of specificity"], in their respective cycles ["sabbaths to be had in eternity, unbroken cycles of weeks [culminating in Sabbath] and months [culminating in New Months/Moons]"], are in eternity, which then also means so are Sun, Moon and stars, to give light upon the earth, in their times, days, seasons, etc, for it is only "in" the city [New Jerusalem], that there will be "no need" of those Heavenly bodies, though they still shine, just eclipsed by the brightness of God's own infinite Glory.

As for "wriggl[ing]", there is someone doing this, to escape the plain reading of the text, in its context(s), which reveals these things kept in eternity, but I am not the one so "wriggl[ing]", but I am settled in the Truth.

Indeed, do so ["look ...closely"], for I have so done, having written it in clear plain terms, based in the Scripture.

Brother, this is the second time, a mistake is made about what was stated in regards the "New Moon", and thus also in connection the Sabbath. Please refer back to the original reply, and to the comments, again made herein. As for the "feast" portion, please refer to the original reply, in the highlighted [blue] portions about the fruit, being food, which is what comes with a "feast", and see also the comments made herein again on that subject. The Sabbath, was connected with the "week" [see Genesis 1-2, for the Biblical week], and stated that the week "culminated in" the Sabbath, being the Holy 7th Day of the LORD thy God.

Mine answer to them that do examine me is this, - 1 Corinthians 9:3

The wicked have laid a snare for me: yet I erred not from thy precepts. - Psalm 119:110

Thou hast rebuked the proud [that are] cursed, which do err from thy commandments. - Psalm 119:21

Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in [their] heart; and they have not known my ways. - Hebrews 3:10​

Never a statement, nor intimation thereof, was ever given by myself, and I honestly ask anyone to show me by quotation and direct citation, otherwise.

Brother, I am simply going to cite the King James Concordance [E-Sword App], and hope you do not miss how the singular word ['chodesh'] is translated throughout the entire Scripture:

"H2320
חדשׁ
chôdesh

Total KJV Occurrences: 296

month, 218

Gen_7:11 (2), Gen_8:4-5 (4), Gen_29:13-14 (4), Exo_12:2-3 (3), Exo_12:6, Exo_12:18 (2), Exo_13:4-5 (2), Exo_19:1 (2), Exo_23:15, Exo_34:18 (2), Exo_40:2, Exo_40:17 (2), Lev_16:29 (2), Lev_23:5-6 (2), Lev_23:24 (2), Lev_23:27,

months, 37

Gen_38:24, Exo_12:2, Num_28:10-11 (2), Num_28:14, Jdg_11:37-39 (3), Jdg_19:2, Jdg_20:47, 1Sa_6:1, 1Sa_27:7, 2Sa_2:11, 2Sa_5:5, 2Sa_6:11, 2Sa_24:8, 2Sa_24:13,

new, 20

1Sa_20:5, 1Sa_20:18, 1Sa_20:24, 2Ki_4:23, 1Ch_23:31, 2Ch_2:4, 2Ch_8:13, 2Ch_31:3, Ezr_3:5, Neh_10:33, Psa_81:3, Isa_1:13-14 (2), Isa_66:23, Eze_45:17, Eze_46:1, Eze_46:3, Eze_46:6, Hos_2:11, Amo_8:5

moons, 11

1Ch_23:31, 2Ch_2:4, 2Ch_8:13, 2Ch_31:3, Ezr_3:5, Neh_10:33, Isa_1:13-14 (2), Eze_45:17, Eze_46:3, Hos_2:11

moon, 9

1Sa_20:5, 1Sa_20:18, 1Sa_20:24, 2Ki_4:23, Psa_81:3, Isa_66:23, Eze_46:1, Eze_46:6, Amo_8:5

monthly, 1

Isa_47:13 "​

You may also see that here - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H2320&t=KJV

However, even with that, my replies are not that the "New Moon" of Isaiah 66:23, are in itself a whole month, for I have stated clearly, that therein it refers to a "specific day", and "culminating in", etc. Clearly cited as: "from" "one" "new moon" "to" "another". The time of the 'month' is inbetween each "new moon" occurrence, even as the common work days of the week [days 1-6] are inbetween each Holy 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God occurrence. Thus, "and" "from" "one" "sabbath" "to" "another".

The question is quite simple. In Isaiah 66:23, is the NEW MOON the monthly Jewish feast?

Supposing it means month and not the monthly feast. It means the month is a just a reference point highlighting CONTINUITY of worship, just as the sabbath. In other words, sabbath is ONLY as special as the month as reference points

1 Samuel 1:7 (KJV)
And as he did so year by year, when she went up to the house of the Lord, so she provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat.
Here ,'year' is the reference point for Hannah's visits.

So if it means the monthly Jewish feast, the apologists are damned because they can't explain New Moon in eternity and if it means monthly, they are equally damned because sabbath is a mere reference point just as the month.


As a bonus, let's look at why new moon means the Monthly jewish feast. Context. Wherever BOTH sabbath and new moon are mentioned together, it is the monthly feast that is ALWAYS meant.

Amos 8:5 (KJV)
5 Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn?
and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat,
making the ephah small, and the shekel great,
and falsifying the balances by deceit?

2 Kings 4:23 (KJV)
And he said, Wherefore wilt thou go to him to day? it is neither new moon, nor sabbath. And she said, It shall be well

Isaiah 1:13 (KJV)
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me;
the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with;
it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Isaiah 45:17 (KJV)
And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel

2 Chronicles 2:4 (KJV)
And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel

Nehemiah 10:33 (KJV)
For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God

Hosea 2:11 (KJV)
11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease,
her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

2 Peter 3:16 aptly describes them;
1. UNSTABLE
2. UNLEARNED
3. they WREST scriptures to their damnation

 

[vooks]

They are so skilled at mutilating scriptures, you'd think that's a spiritual gift

Isaiah 66:23 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another,
shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Look at this one again;
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2225311&postcount=11

He burns so much energy 'proving' that new moon in this verse is 'month' and not a Jewish feast.

What if he spent a fraction of the same realizing that sabbath might as well be a 'week' and not sabbath day? God would then be telling us that, 'from month to month and from week to week, all shall come and worship'

 

[vooks]

Brother, the Ten Commandments, all of them, are already "spiritual"
.

It is good to bear in mind these are UNSTABLE, UNLEARNED and they WREST scriptures to their perdition just as Peter described them.

Sabbath is as spiritual as Passover. Here's why;

1. Passover and sabbath are ceremonies; they both commemorate past events.
2. Passover and sabbath are both backward and forward looking; they look back to deliverance from Egypt and God's rest from creation respectively, and thy look forward to Christ sacrifice and Christ salvation respectively

Conclusion
Passover and sabbath are SHADOWS,their REALITY is in Christ- Colossians 2:17

Lord have mercy on these Pharaisical shadow chasers who esteem days above others and judge those who don't contrary to Romans 14:4-6

Selah!

 

[vooks]

Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. 1 Chronicles 22:9

Is not the LORD your God with you? and hath he not given you rest on every side? for he hath given the inhabitants of the land into mine hand; and the land is subdued before the LORD, and before his people. 1 Chronicles 22:18

For David said, The LORD God of Israel hath given rest unto his people, that they may dwell in Jerusalem for ever: 1 Chronicles 23:25

And all Judah rejoiced at the oath: for they had sworn with all their heart, and sought him with their whole desire; and he was found of them: and the LORD gave them rest round about. 2 Chronicles 15:15

So the realm of Jehoshaphat was quiet: for his God gave him rest round about. 2 Chronicles 20:30

Therefore he said unto Judah, Let us build these cities, and make about them walls, and towers, gates, and bars, while the land is yet before us; because we have sought the LORD our God, we have sought him, and he hath given us rest on every side. So they built and prospered. 2 Chronicles 14:7

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. Isaiah 11:10

And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, Isaiah 14:3

Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Isaiah 56:6

If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Isaiah 58:13

Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Jeremiah 6:16

Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest. Jeremiah 31:2

Their Redeemer is strong; the LORD of hosts is his name: he shall throughly plead their cause, that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon. Jeremiah 50:34

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. Hebrews 4:1​

In Fact, the Ten Commandments are Jesus Commandments, see John 14:15 and Exodus 20:6. We know that to come short of God's glory [Romans' 3:23], is sin [1 John 3:4], which is transgression of the Holy Law of God, the Ten Commandments [Romans 7:7,14, etc].

Colossians 2:17, speaks about "shadow" and "body" [substance], of that which is in the previous verses. We shall come to Colossians 2 in its context, in a bit, and therein demonstrate, from Scripture, what it deals with in its "handwriting of ordinances", that were "against", etc, and then see where Paul is directly citing from in the texts of Genesis to Malachi, and for what purpose.

Frankly, I am surprised brother vooks, that you did not lump Romans 14 [one of the most misused passages in all of Scripture for those that want to do whatever they want and call it holiness], Galatians 3-5, etc in there also. Nevertheless, these shall all be gone over in their contextual details.

Let's briefly [for the moment, to come back to later] take a look a the Sabbath passages of the Matthew - Revelation texts:

The many times that the Holy 7th Day the "Sabbath" of the LORD thy God is given in the New Testament:

Matthew 12:1,2,5,8,10,11,12, 24:20, 28:1;

Mark 1:21, 2:23,24,27,28, 3:2,4, 6:2, 7:6-9, 15:42, 16:1;

Luke 4:16,31, 6:1,2,5,6,7,9, 13:10,14,15,16, 14:1,3,5, 23:54,56;

John 5:9,10,16,18, 7:22,23, 9:14,16, 19:31;

Acts 1:2, 13:14,27,42,44, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4;​

Additional references are:

Hebrews 4:9; [Greek: sabbatismos, literal sabbath-keeping]

Revelation 1:10 [kuriake hemera, "the Lord's Day" [the weekly 7th Day Sabbath, not directly "the Day of the Lord" [being the final 1,000 years. millennium], this is totally different in the Greek, but is a miniature of the Great Week "with" [2 Peter 3:8] God, 6,000 years ending [the mystery of God should be finished] entering into in the final 7,000th year in Heaven], see Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Deuteronomy 5:12:15, Isaiah 58:13, 66:23, Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:27,28; Luke 6:5 ], 10:6 [see also Exodus 20:11, 31:17 Nehemiah 9:6; Psalms 146:6; Acts 4:24, 14:15, Revelation 14:7]; 14:7 [see previous], etc​

Additionally, further references in the Greek are [every single obviously stated 'first [day] of the week' text from Matthew to Revelation, proves the ongoing perpetuity of the 7th Day Sabbath, in which the whole week pointed to and culminated in]:

Matthew 28:1 - oye de sabbatwn and eiV mian sabbatwn
Mark 16:2 - kai lian prwi ths mias sabbatwn
Mark 16:9 - anastas de prwi prwth sabbatou
Luke 24:1 - th de mia twn sabbatwn
John 20:1 - th de mia twn sabbatwn
John 20:19 - th mia twn sabbatwn
Acts 20:7 - en de th mia twn sabbatwn
1 Corinthians 16:2 - kata mian sabbatwn​

Additional reference is in the Sabbath before Jesus' death, wherein Jesus, the disciples and Lazarus, all were at Lazarus' house, six days before the Passover, the very next day being the Triumphal entry:

Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. John 12:1​

For further evidence of that see - http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99234

...to be continued...

Bear in mind they are
1. UNLEARNED
2. UNSTABLE
3. WREST scriptures to their damnation

The frequency of sabbath in NT is no substitute for a sabbath command. NT is set almost entirely in regions UNDER Moses so sabbath keeping is natural. Note, it is not the only feast mentioned. We have Passover, Pentecost as well. Only the unthinking would keep Passover merely because it is MENTIONED. But our apologists don't . They are hypocrites

 

[vooks]

We continue demolishing the UNSTABLE and UNLEARNED with the Word of God

As stated before, it indeed is. We are going to be looking indepth from this reply onward.

Thank you for the tacit admission that it [the Holy 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God] is indeed "being" [present tense] "a memorial for creation..."

Memorials [especially present tense ones, "being"], always point to the Past event, which is why they are called "memorial" [Exodus 13:9, etc], and the 4th Commandment begins with the word "Remember" [Exodus 20:8].

Brother, Christ Jesus said:

Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. - Matthew 11:28

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. - Matthew 11:29

For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light. - Matthew 11:30​

Of which was already coming from the Genesis to Malachi texts:

And he said, My presence shall go [with thee], and I will give thee rest. - Exodus 33:14​

Please take notice in Matthew 11:28, Jesus stated that He Himself is the one which "give(s)" [Exodus 16:29] us the "rest". He is the one which gives the Holy 7th Day Sabbath [of the LORD thy God], for He made it [at Creation; Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15, etc], and it being "made for ["the"] man" [Mark 2:27, see Greek, "και ελεγεν αυτοις το σαββατον δια τον ανθρωπον εγενετο ουχ ο ανθρωπος δια το σαββατον"], who was Adam, & thus all in him.

What is the "rest" that Christ Jesus "give(s)"? Rest from Sin ["Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." - 1 John 3:4]. Please notice that "is" [present tense], not "was" [past tense]. Afterall, is there not the glorious hymn, "Power in the Blood"?, Would you be free from the burden of sin...

This was why there was to be no "burdens" borne upon the Holy 7th Day Sabbath day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, for the Day is the Sign of freedom from the burden of Sin, and Sin is the transgression of His Holy Law, the Ten Commandments!

And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day. Nehemiah 13:19

Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; Jeremiah 17:21​

There are two yokes,

[1] the yoke of Jesus Christ, and His ways, obedience to His Holy Law, liberty from sin
[2] or the yoke of the devil, and his, in the bondage, burden of sin, guilt, etc.​

Those which laboured, laboured under the burden, the "laden" of several things,

[1] Sin -

Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Isaiah 1:4

There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin. Psalms 33:8

For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me. Psalms 38:4

Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Isaiah 58:6

For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. Acts 8:23

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; John 8:31

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:32

They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? John 8:33

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. John 8:34​

...and because of their iniquities, corrupt men came in and ladened even further with false practices and ways to overcome sin, rules, regulations of worthlessness, which further nullified the commandments of God.

[2] Pharisaical, Lawyers, etc rules of works, traditions which negated the Law of God, and the Salvation of God, separating them from the pure and simple faith of Scripture -

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. Matthew 23:4

And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. Luke 11:46​

[3] Fear of Eternal Death, because of sin, which is transgression of His Holy, Just and Good Law -

And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. Hebrews 2:15

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6:16​

God/Jesus delivers from these, and gives Rest, which is the bringing us back into harmony with Himself, and His Ways and His Law, thus no longer at enmity, no longer in bondage, no longer servants of satan, but chilren of the Living God:

I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Exodus 20:2

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:6

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Exodus 20:8

Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: Exodus 20:9

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Exodus 20:10

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11​

For True Rest, is found in obeying God in His Law, not rebelling against Him in His Law. It is fully trusting in His saving Grace and Power to deliver from Sin/Selfishness, that we put away our own works for deliverance, put away sins, which are transgressions of His Holy Law, by that same Grace, but Rest with Him in His Rest, For He Delivers. The 7th Day Sabbath is the Sign of the Finished Work of Jesus, not only in Creation, but also in Salvation, Redemption in His death, He Rested. Who will trust and believe in His Finished Work with us?

Lucifer in Heaven, brought discord, strife and unrest when he rebelled and sinned in Heaven. And he again brought the same to our first parents, Adam/Eve. He [satan] brings the same to all who will refuse God, and refuse rest with Him [God/Jesus] in the 7th Day of His own choosing.

...to be continued...

So REST=OBEYING COMMANDMENTS
Hebrews 3:18-19 (KJV)
And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Did God refuse Israel from keeping his commandments because he swore they would not enter into his Rest?

 

[One Baptism]

... apologies, incorrect location.

 

[One Baptism]

See - http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99751

 

[vooks]

The UNSTABLE and the UNLEARNED.

In reverse:Like unto my LORD God, for in the 7th Day He rested, being the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, even Jesus Christ, "as his custom", see also Paul [Acts 17:2, "as his manner was"].

The fickle apologist imagines to be following Jesus in keeping sabbath but He quickly slithers in the opposite direction when it comes to Weeks, Tabernacle, Pentecost and Passover

Brother, as demonstrated the Law of God, the Ten Commandments are "spiritual" [For we know that the law is spiritual ..." Romans 7:14], not to be "spiritualized" away into nothing/vanity/aether.

"Spiritual" does not mean ethereal, of non-substance, frittered away:

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. - Galatians 6:1​

There is always to be demonstration of the faith, for a fruit tree bearing no fruit, in the time of fruit, having only leaves, is pretentious, false witness.

And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: - 1 Corinthians 2:4​

Thus it is the same with those who say they keep the 'spirit' of the Sabbath, and yet in the very Holy 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God, they refuse to cease from their work(s) as God has commanded, calling all men everywhere to repent [Acts 14:15, 17:30, 26:20, etc], and thus refuse the rest wherewith Christ Jesus in His righteousness offers in its place, yet they would choose their own way, their own self-righteousness, their own man/self-made law over God's. They say effectively to God, "No, God, not your way... my way and you must accept it as true."

Christ is my REST, He is my sabbath.:tonofbricks:

Christ Jesus is the pattern man, and he said, "follow me..."

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: - 1 Peter 2:21​

So why don't you keep the rest of the Jewish feasts? Why stop at sabbath? I rebuke ignorance from your life in Jesus name!

Yes, Christ Jesus is "our Passover" [1 Corinthians 5:7], and this because He is the "Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world" [John 1:29,36], even the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" [Revelation 13:8], but brother, show me a single text where Jesus is the "day" of Passover, instead of being the "Passover [the sacrifice]". And contrary to the point, it was man/devil-made traditions which were pervading throughout, which undercut all the Holy Law of God, the Ten Commandments and His Testimony:

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. - Colossians 2:8​

More:

But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? - Matthew 15:3

And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. - Matthew 15:6

For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. - Mark 7:8

And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. - Mark 7:9

etc.​

Why won't I keep Passover, Weeks,Tabernacles ,sabbath and all the works?
It is because all they are COMMANDMENTS of God pure and perfect, just not for me. Circumcision is a great commandment just not for me.
You can either make up (like BobRyan is wont to remind us) commandments and substitute God's commandment, or you can relentlessly pursue shadows missing Christ who is the reality.

Apologists are professional shadow hunters. They don't know Christ, they have no assurance of salvation, they are always in fear of losing salvation they never have, they are always trying to impress God with their works. Their sins are not forgiven, and if they are, they risk being 'unforgiven'. They are miserable animals

 

[vooks]

The UNSTABLE and the UNLEARNED are at it again

The word for "rest" in Hebrews 4:9, is:

Sabbatis-mos [literally: Sabbath - keeping] is a specialized word [from Sabbatizo, verb - Exodus 16:30; Leviticus 23:32, 26:34; 2 Chronicles 36:21, see also the LXX in all its uses; like as is the word Baptis-mos [G909], utilized [Mark 7:9, etc "βαπτισμους", literally thoroughly or totally washing] from Baptizo].

"Σαββα^τ-ισμός , ὁ,
A.a keeping of days of rest, Ep. Hebr.4.9, cf. Plu.2.166a (codd., βαπτισμούς Bentley)." - http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...ext:1999.04.0057:entry=*sabbatismo/s-contents

"Σαββατισμός 1
a keeping of days of rest, NTest.

1 Σαββα^τισμός, οῦ, ὁ," - http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...ext:1999.04.0058:entry=*sabbatismo/s-contents​

...in the extant Greek literature, always, in every single case, means a literally keeping of the Sabbath Day:

Plutarch, De Superstitione 3 (Moralia 166A)

Justin, Dialogue with Trypho 23:3

Epiphanius, Adversus Haereses 30:2:2

Martyrium Petri et Pauli 1

Apostolic Constitutions 2:36:2​

These are merely additional helps to what is already given in Scripture itself, but let us dwell here and see what may be gleaned, and come back:

Neither Christ Jesus, nor Paul, etc, anywhere give 'rest' from the keeping of the Ten Commandments, the Moral/Spiritual, Holy, Just and Good and Perfect Law of God, which would include the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord thy God.

If these [the Ten Commandments] are not kept by the powerful grace of God, then we shall never enter into Heaven, for nothing defiling shall enter there, and Lucifer was cast out from there for his transgressions, even as Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden on earth for theirs...

...therefore "Labour" [by overcoming even as He overcame] to enter into it...

...to be continued...

σαββατισμός [Def, Origins, etc] - http://en.wiktionary.7val.com/wiki/σαββατισμός
or: http://zikkir.net/words/Σαββατισμός

List of Books by Plutarch: http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupname?key=Plutarch​

Plutarch, Moralia, Volume II, de Superstitione

Plutarch, De Superstitione 3 (Moralia 166A) [in certain critical editions, reads “βαπτισμούς” [an emendation], but others “σαββατισμούς”]:

“ οὐδὲν κακὸν ἐχούσης ὕπαρ ἐξαπατῶσιν ἑαυτοὺς καὶ δαπανῶσι καὶ ταράττουσιν, εἰς ἀγύρτας καὶ γόητας ἐμπεσόντες λέγοντας

ἀλλ᾽ εἴτ᾽ ἔνυπνον φάντασμα φοβεῖ, 1
χθονίας θ᾽ Ἑκάτης κῶμον ἐδέξω,

τὴν περιμάκτριαν κάλει γραῦν καὶ βάπτισον σεαυτὸν εἰς θάλασσαν καὶ καθίσας ἐν τῇ γῇ διημέρευσον.

ὦ βάρβαρ᾽ ἐξευρόντες Ἕλληνες κακά

τῇ δεισιδαιμονίᾳ, πηλώσεις καταβορβορώσεις βαπτισμούς, 2 ῥίψεις ἐπὶ πρόσωπον, αἰσχρὰς; προκαθίσεις, ἀλλοκότους προσκυνήσεις. δικαίῳ τῷ στόματι τοὺς κιθαρῳδοὺς ἐκέλευον ᾄδειν οἱ τὴν νόμιμον μουσικὴν

1 Nauck p. 698
2 βαπτισμούς Bentleius: σαββατισμούς
Plutarch. Moralia. Gregorius N. Bernardakis. Leipzig. Teubner. 1888. 1.” - http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0188:stephpage=166a​

or Picture here:

- http://archive.org/stream/moralia01plut#page/406/mode/2up​

Also same here:

- http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101054396377;view=1up;seq=522​

See also note 4, here:

“4 βαπτισμούς Bentleius: σαββατισμούς” - http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0188:section=3#note-link4​

or here:

“2 βαπτισμούς Bentley: σαββατισμούς.” - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/H/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/De_superstitione*.html#ref2​

*Bentleius, Richardus is Richard Bently​

See also notation here:

- http://books.google.com/books?id=6r...X&ei=ZB6oUcfvJo6PigL_wIHACg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwADgK​

One version [Goodwin. (English)] of this in English gives:

“...[p. 171] as tumbling in mire, rolling themselves in dunghills, keeping of Sabbaths, monstrous prostrations, long and obstinate sittings in a place, and vile and abject adorations, and all for vain superstition! ...” - http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...410A0?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0190:section=3​

Again:

“...as tumbling in mire, rolling themselves in dunghills, keeping of Sabbaths, monstrous prostrations, long and obstinate sittings in a place, and vile and abject adorations, and all for vain superstition! ...” - http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php?title=1211&layout=html​

Again:

“...through your own superstition, such as smearing with mud, wallowing in the mire, Sabbath-keeping ...” - http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/plu/pte/pte09.htm with subnote: “261:1 A remarkable allusion to the influence of Judaism amongst the Greeks of the second century.” - http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/plu/pte/pte09.htm#fn_350​

Others confirm this reading in the Greek:

“ὦ βάρβαρ᾽ ἐξευρόντες Ἕλληνες κακά [Note: In the Loeb edition of Plutarch's Moralia, vol. 2, “On Superstition,” this reads κακα, not κατα], τῇ δεισιδαιμονίᾳ, πηλώσεις καταβορβορώσεις, σαββατισμούς, ῥίψεις ἐπὶ πρόσωπον, αἰσχρὰς; προκαθίσεις, ἀλλοκότους προσκυνήσεις. δικαίῳ τῷ στόματι τοὺς κιθαρῳδοὺς ἐκέλευον ᾄδειν οἱ τὴν νόμιμον μουσικὴν” - [Chap. 3. CHAPTER III: Of the Force of Humour in Religion.—Support of our Author’s Argument in his Essay on the Freedom of Wit and Raillery.— Zeal discuss’d. Spiritual Surgeons: Executioners: Carvers.—Original of human Sacrifice.— Exhilaration of - Anthony Ashley Cooper, Earl of Shaftesbury, Characteristicks of Men, Manners, Opinions, Times, vol. 3 [1737] – footnote 142] - http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=...&layout=html&Itemid=27#lf5989_footnote_nt_142​

...to be continued...

Hebrews 3:10-19 English Standard Version (ESV)

10 Therefore I was provoked with that generation,
and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart;
they have not known my ways.’
11 As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest.’”
12 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. 13 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. 15 As it is said,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
16 For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.

Can any thinking primate insist that God swore Israel would not keep sabbath?

Canaan is a type of God's REST and that's why those who disobeyed fell in the wilderness. As we will see in Chapter 4, even those who made it to Canaan did not enter into God's true REST as evidenced by a second call TODAY many years after Canaan.

 

[vooks]

Hebrews 4:1-11 English Standard Version (ESV)

4 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.[a] 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,

“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”
although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5 And again in this passage he said,

“They shall not enter my rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God Would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.

REST is not the weekly sabbath because;
1. The REST is a PROMISE, not a commandment

2. God Swore the disobedient would NEVER enter into the REST

3. The REST is a state hence the 'entering' for which Canaan is a shadow

4. 'If Joshua had given'.....sabbath existed long before Joshua, why would there be a possibility of Joshua GIVING it?

5. Remember Joshua gave the then obedient something just that it was not REST. We know they must have been sabbath keepers as they got into Canaan seeing they were obedient yet they never entered REST. So whatever REST Joshua could not give them was not the weekly sabbath.

5. There is a tone of PERMANENCE. You don't keep on entering into rest, you enter ONCE, 'cease from your works'. A sabbath keeper is not resting.

6. There remains a sabbath Rest (sabbatismos) BECAUSE Joshua had not given them REST (katapausis) as evidenced by the fact that long after Joshua, we are still being told 'today....'. So the promise of entering his REST(katapausis) remains-v1. In short, katapausis=sabbatismos

Selah!