BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Clearly it will serve the RC postion best in 1Cor 11 if we don't "actually" look at it.Originally posted by Born Again Catholic:
With 1 Cor 11:29 think of the enormity of the punishment damnation for not discerning the body damnation, that alone should clue you in that something big is going on here.
Ironically you say that "They are taking it in as regular bodily food for their nourishment, and it does nothing for them spiritually. They eat and drink to their own damnation"
"Obviously" this is a "memorial" service and not a "continual sacrifice".1Cor 11
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread;
24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, ""This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.''
25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, ""This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.''
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.
But "if we could ignore that part"...
"Still" we notice here that the "judging" is not "of the bread" as if - - "its what you eat that saves you but you don't know it" -- rather the point is "judging yourself" -- seeing if the PERSON is ready to partake of the memorial symbols - NOT seeing if the BREAD is really changed into God.1Cor 11
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
Notice - "again" it is "juding ourselves" not "judging the bread" or making some "determination about the bread"1Cor 11
29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.
30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
NOR is there any reference to "thinking that bread REALLY is God".
How 'different' this text is from what the RC doctrines "need it to be" -- eh?
Nope that would not be the clear and obvious use of bread in the Gospels as a symbol.Originally posted by Born Again Catholic:
Here is a passage from John 6, using the symbolic meaning for eat my body drink my blood as taught in the Bible.
John 6(symbolically)
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you persecute, assault, destroy, slander Me (Jesus), you have no life in you. 54Whoever persecutes assaults, destroys, slanders me I will raise him up at the last day.
RATHER it is clearly established in Matt 16 - bread is symbolic of "teaching".
In John 6 Christ said it is "THE WORD" that gives life NOT "what you eat".
Notice that when the faithLESS disciples of John 6 take him too literally - "they leave" - nobody "bites Christ".
Notice that when the faithFULL disciples of Matt 16 take his reference "too literally" they are chastized.
Christ chastises the disciples for not understanding that the “symbol” of bread – is “teaching” and “Word” even as the “Bread of Heaven” illustration Christ uses in John 6.Matt 16
5 And the disciples came to the other side of the sea, but they had forgotten to bring any bread.
6 And Jesus said to them, ""Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.''
7 They began to discuss this among themselves, saying, ""He said that because we did not bring any bread.''
8 But Jesus, aware of this, said, "" You men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves that you have no bread?
9 ""Do you not yet understand or remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets full you picked up?
10 ""Or the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many large baskets full you picked up?
11 ""How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.''
12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Obviously using the symbolic sense of this language would work perfectly in John 6 - just as it does in Matt 16.
In Christ,
Bob