Ye reject salvation by grace !

[savedbymercy]

Acts 15:11

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

Rom11:5

Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


The remnant of jews, the election of grace, are saved no different than from the gentiles who are saved through grace, they too are of the election of the same grace !

Now those of us who reject the Truth of unconditional election, that God has chosen only a portion out of mankind for grace and glory, and hath purposely decreed from all eternity that the rest shall be hardened and damned in their sins for the Glory of His Justice, the Elect being the Election of Grace, let it be known here and now, we reject Salvation by Grace through Faith ! There is no way around it or any other way to put it, it cannot be watered down or rationalized away ! Now any of us rejecting the revealed will of God, in how He saves certain sinners, you have no other hope ! If one says this is hyper calvinism, that is fine, but you still have rejected salvation by grace, and therefore for all intents and purposes without hope !

 

[mandym]

So is it your position that non-Calvinists are not saved?

 

[savedbymercy]

Can you refute anything in the OP with scripture ?

 

[12strings]

Acts 15:11

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

Rom11:5

Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

-Agreed!

The remnant of jews, the election of grace, are saved no different than from the gentiles who are saved through grace, they too are of the election of the same grace !

-Agreed!

Now those of us who reject the Truth of unconditional election, that God has chosen only a portion out of mankind for grace and glory, and hath purposely decreed from all eternity that the rest shall be hardened and damned in their sins for the Glory of His Justice, the Elect being the Election of Grace, let it be known here and now, we reject Salvation by Grace through Faith ! There is no way around it or any other way to put it, it cannot be watered down or rationalized away ! Now any of us rejecting the revealed will of God, in how He saves certain sinners, you have no other hope ! If one says this is hyper calvinism, that is fine, but you still have rejected salvation by grace, and therefore for all intents and purposes without hope !

1. One can accept Salvation by Grace through faith based on Ephesians 2:8-9, and the verses you have listed, yet disagree with the interpretation of election as unconditional and individual, yet ascribe their salvation to the grace of God which they received by faith, which is the same way a Jew or Gentile is saved. Such a person cannot be said from scripture to be rejecting the Gospel and without hope. Perhaps you might be better to say they mis-understand certain aspects of how a person comes to the point of having faith. This does not make them a non-believer.

2. Though I have questions about whether or not you are a hyper-calvinist, What you are saying here is not even what those that some call hyper-calvinists would say because they would say that such a person will be saved eternally if they are elect whether or not the EVER give agreement to salvation by grace through faith.

3. Didn't you have a really long thread earlier that was arguing the point that faith is NOT a requirement for salvation? Are you changing your tune now to say that not only faith in Christ, but faith in unconditional election are required for salvation?

 

[mandym]

Can you refute anything in the OP with scripture ?

I am trying to get clarification on your position. Is it your position that only Calvinists are saved?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I'm pretty sure Calvinist claim to be saved by Grace. The only difference between your view and their view is that Calvinist hold that Grace is irresistable and you don't. You cannot reject Grace according to Calvin. My question to you is (as a calvinist would ask) is how can you even have the ability or desire to Choose God if you weren't regenerated to begin with? God's grace must make you alive to even consider his salvation because as scriptures says "you were dead in your sins" -

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[d] alive with Christ.

Col 2:13 - God had to do something first so that you could be alive to even choose him. Eph 2:1

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

And its clear in verse 5 I think that in order for salvation to even occur to you; you must have been made alive by grace

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved

So how do you get to the point of accepting Jesus as your personal savior save by election?

 

[Tom Bryant]

Now any of us rejecting the revealed will of God, in how He saves certain sinners, you have no other hope ! If one says this is hyper calvinism, that is fine, but you still have rejected salvation by grace, and therefore for all intents and purposes without hope !

You seem to be saying that those of us who do not believe in your 5 point calvinism are not saved and are withouT hope. Is that what you are saying? If not, please tell us.

btw, i have reported this post.

 

[The Biblicist]

Acts 15:11

If one says this is hyper calvinism, that is fine, but you still have rejected salvation by grace, and therefore for all intents and purposes without hope !

Hogwash! Most people of God when they are saved do not even understand the doctrine of grace and yet they are still saved. One does not have to embrace the theology of grace to be saved! Nowhere does the scripture say "Beleive in the theology of Grace and thou shalt be saved" or "believe in unconditional election and thou shalt be saved" or "believe in limited atonement and thou shalt be saved" or "believe in total depravity and thou shalt be saved."

The only thing necessary for anyone to be saved is to see themselves as a sinner and Christ as God's sufficient provision to save them and receive and rest upon that provision by faith.

You do teach a hyper-Calvinism that is false and misleading and distorts the true doctrine of grace and your conclusions are just as hyper and false.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Hogwash!

Hog wash nothing, If one does not believe in the Election of Grace, which is unconditional Election apart from works Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

If salvation is not by election of grace, then it is no more by grace !

 

[savedbymercy]

You seem to be saying that those of us who do not believe in your 5 point calvinism are not saved and are withouT hope. Is that what you are saying? If not, please tell us.

btw, i have reported this post.

I am saying that anyone who believes in salvation by Grace , they must believe it not apart from the Election of Grace ! Otherwise they do not believe in salvationby Grace. Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace[Election], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Grace and Election are the same !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



Hog wash nothing, If one does not believe in the Election of Grace, which is unconditional Election apart from works Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

If salvation is not by election of grace, then it is no more by grace !

I did not dispute the theological truth of unconditional election. What I said hogwash to and disputed was YOUR APPLICATION of that truth. No one has to BELIEVE IN UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION to be saved - NNE! Christ alone is the object of faith not the five points of TULIP.

 

[savedbymercy]

I am trying to get clarification on your position. Is it your position that only Calvinists are saved?

Well, you need to deal with what I posted in the OP or maybe this thread is over your head, The other Two Posters who responded did not need any clarification, I posted what I posted loud and clear !

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

I did not dispute the theological truth of unconditional election.

Well the Truth of Election of Grace Rom 11:5,is the only way one can believe in Salvation by Grace through faith, not of works ! Vs 6

No one has to BELIEVE IN UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION to be saved

So are you stating that no one has to believe in salvation by Grace to give evidence that they are saved by the Grace of God ?

Christ alone is the object of faith not the five points of TULIP.

I am not talking about the five points of Tulip, but salvation by the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 15:11, you cannot separate the person of Christ from Salvation by His Grace !

If someone believes on a Christ that did not die to save exclusively the Election of Grace, then their Faith is not in the Christ of Scripture ! It's impossible. Now you can call it calvinism if you like, nothing is going to change what I just said !

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I am saying that anyone who believes in salvation by Grace , they must believe it not apart from the Election of Grace ! Otherwise they do not believe in salvationby Grace. Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace[Election], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Grace and Election are the same !

It seems to me that if you hold to a Hyper Calvinistic view (Such that even Calvin himself did not hold) and you are a Supralapsarian then it doesn't matter what an individual believes as long as they are elect. If Elect a person can hold to just about any Christian view and have no worries as to their personal eternity. And if someone were not elect then it doesn't really matter what they believe. So why the instance on your view?

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



Well the Truth of Election of Grace Rom 11:5,is the only way one can believe in Salvation by Grace through faith, not of works ! Vs 6



So are you stating that no one has to believe in salvation by Grace to give evidence that they are saved by the Grace of God ?



I am not talking about the five points of Tulip, but salvation by the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 15:11, you cannot separate the person of Christ from Salvation by His Grace !

If someone believes on a Christ that did not die to save exclusively the Election of Grace, then their Faith is not in the Christ of Scripture ! It's impossible. Now you can call it calvinism if you like, nothing is going to change what I just said !

Are you telling us that you comprehended and beleived the whole five points of grace BEFORE you could express Biblical faith in Jesus Christ as Savior????

If not, then why force that logic upon anyone else??? Does "teaching them" occur BEFORE or AFTER they are saved and baptized in the Great Commission???

Sinners do not have to know anything about TULIP or understand anything about TULIP to be saved! They don't even have to have a theological understanding of grace to be saved by grace. They simply need to perceive themselves as sinners and the gospel as sufficient to save them from their sins - period!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Acts 15:11

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

Rom11:5

Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


The remnant of jews, the election of grace, are saved no different than from the gentiles who are saved through grace, they too are of the election of the same grace !

Now those of us who reject the Truth of unconditional election, that God has chosen only a portion out of mankind for grace and glory, and hath purposely decreed from all eternity that the rest shall be hardened and damned in their sins for the Glory of His Justice, the Elect being the Election of Grace, let it be known here and now, we reject Salvation by Grace through Faith ! There is no way around it or any other way to put it, it cannot be watered down or rationalized away ! Now any of us rejecting the revealed will of God, in how He saves certain sinners, you have no other hope ! If one says this is hyper calvinism, that is fine, but you still have rejected salvation by grace, and therefore for all intents and purposes without hope !

GE:


This is Calvinism in no manner or form whatsoever. You definitely do not know what you are talking about, not even that you are talking absolute nonsense.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Thanks for making your position clear as mud. So if I am saved I hold to election or I hold to it without knowing I really hold onto it.

I am saved by grace but I do not hold to election as you understand it (or misunderstand it). I know I don't hold to it, so by your definition I must be without hope.

You posts on here remind me of the child who over and over hit just one note. Maybe you need to learn something else so you can become a 2 note pianist. :sleep:

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Are you telling us that you comprehended and beleived the whole five points of grace BEFORE you could express Biblical faith in Jesus Christ as Savior????

This is not about me, but salvation by Grace ! If one is not preaching Salvation by the Grace of God , which includes the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6, then they are preaching another Gospel !

Sinners do not have to know anything about TULIP or understand anything about TULIP to be saved!

Are you saying that anyone does not have to believe the Gospel to be saved ? Because the Truth's of Tulip are all Gospel Truth's !

When Paul preached the Gospel to the Corinthians in 1 Cor 15:1-4 and vs 3 states:

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Whose the OUR SINS here Paul is talking about ?

 

[savedbymercy]

tom bry

I am saved by grace but I do not hold to election as you understand it (or misunderstand it).

Ok, well I understand it the way its written in scripture, to be saved by Grace is to be saved by the being of the Election of Grace ! Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace [Election vs 5], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Sorry, you cannot seperate them, Grace and Election that is !

 

[savedbymercy]

GE:


This is Calvinism in no manner or form whatsoever. You definitely do not know what you are talking about, not even that you are talking absolute nonsense.

You are calling salvation by Grace nonesense !