Ye reject salvation by grace !

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Thanks for making your position clear as mud. So if I am saved I hold to election or I hold to it without knowing I really hold onto it.

I am saved by grace but I do not hold to election as you understand it (or misunderstand it). I know I don't hold to it, so by your definition I must be without hope.

You posts on here remind me of the child who over and over hit just one note. Maybe you need to learn something else so you can become a 2 note pianist. :sleep:

GE:

Whom are you adressing?

I responded to 'savedbymercy'.

I don't say anything about your 'position' or 'understanding' of election; I am talking about SBM's conception of Calvinism.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You are calling salvation by Grace nonesense !

Now he's calling your requirement to have a Supralapsarian view of salvation in order to be saved nonsense. Did the theif on the cross have TULIP worked out or did he just trust Jesus?

 

[savedbymercy]

Now he's calling your requirement to have a Supralapsarian view of salvation in order to be saved nonsense. Did the theif on the cross have TULIP worked out or did he just trust Jesus?

I am witnessing to Salvation by Grace Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by[Election of] grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

You cannot sperate Salvation by Grace from the Election of Grace, I do not care what you think or say, I have scripture for my evidence !

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I am witnessing to Salvation by Grace Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by[Election of] grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

You cannot sperate Salvation by Grace from the Election of Grace, I do not care what you think or say, I have scripture for my evidence !

Its fine that you believe in Grace and Election but if someone is Elect and doesn't hold to your Supralapsarian view it really doesn't matter because they are still Elect and their salvation is assured. So why make the big fuss?

 

[savedbymercy]

Its fine that you believe in Grace and Election but if someone is Elect and doesn't hold to your Supralapsarian view it really doesn't matter because they are still Elect and their salvation is assured. So why make the big fuss?

One of the fundamental Truth's of Christianity is Salvation by Grace !

it really doesn't matter because they are still Elect and their salvation is assured.

Well until they believe the Gospel, there is no basis for fellowship or calling one saved. Why call someone a christian when they reject salvation by Grace ?

 

[Tom Bryant]

GE:

Whom are you adressing?

I responded to 'savedbymercy'.

I don't say anything about your 'position' or 'understanding' of election; I am talking about SBM's conception of Calvinism.

Forgive me, I was addressing the so called savedbymercy who ought to change his screen name to savedbycalvinism.

 

[savedbymercy]

Forgive me, I was addressing the so called savedbymercy who ought to change his screen name to savedbycalvinism.

No, see what it is, You have called Salvation by Grace calvinism, that is on you ! You should be paying attention to the scripture I have witnessed to !

 

[Tom Bryant]

tom bry



Ok, well I understand it the way its written in scripture, to be saved by Grace is to be saved by the being of the Election of Grace ! Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace [Election vs 5], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Sorry, you cannot seperate them, Grace and Election that is !

I am bowing out of this. If this is the position of all Calvinists, and I suspect that it isn't the position of most calvinists, then we will never be able to bridge the gap between our 2 positions.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

One of the fundamental Truth's of Christianity is Salvation by Grace !

Yes but an infralapsarian holds to grace just as well as a Supralapsarian. And even an Arminian holds to the doctrine of Grace. So why the big hubbub about supralpsarian view?

Well until they believe the Gospel, there is no basis for fellowship or calling one saved. Why call someone a christian when they reject salvation by Grace ?

First of all the gospel is contained in the 4 Gospels meaning the good news. The good news is simple: Jesus came and died for our sins and restored us to a right relationship with God for those who believe in Jesus. Not only this but Jesus conqured not only sin but also death and we have the hope of eternal life and our own resurrection from the dead. There is nothing in that statement spelling out Tulip, Irresistable Grace, Unconditional Election, the perserverance of the Saints, limited attonement, or Total depravity. But it does require faith in Jesus total sufficiency. So what's the beef?

 

[DHK]

Can you refute anything in the OP with scripture ?

Most definitely!

Acts 15:11

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

Rom11:5

Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

For starters you have put two Scriptures unrelated to each other together to form your twisted doctrine. That is one mistake.
Your well known bias in believing that salvation is not of faith is revealed in quoting Acts 15:11 instead of Rom.5:1 or Rom.4:3 or Eph.2:8,9, Scriptures which you have a hard time with.

The remnant of jews, the election of grace, are saved no different than from the gentiles who are saved through grace, they too are of the election of the same grace !

They are all saved by grace through faith not of works.
Note well that faith is not a work. Rom.4:3-5 confirms that.

Now those of us who reject the Truth of unconditional election, that God has chosen only a portion out of mankind for grace and glory, and hath purposely decreed from all eternity that the rest shall be hardened and damned in their sins for the Glory of His Justice, the Elect being the Election of Grace, let it be known here and now, we reject Salvation by Grace through Faith !

I am sorry you reject Biblical truth. The clearly stated truth of the word of God cannot be so plain as to say:

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You just said you reject salvation by grace through faith. You believe in heresy. You deny the Word of God outright.

There is no way around it or any other way to put it, it cannot be watered down or rationalized away !

And yet that is what you do with the gospel--water it down and rationalize it away!

Now any of us rejecting the revealed will of God, in how He saves certain sinners, you have no other hope !

Man is saved by putting his faith in the shed blood of Christ. There is no other way!!

If one says this is hyper calvinism, that is fine, but you still have rejected salvation by grace, and therefore for all intents and purposes without hope !

You have rejected the truths of Eph.2:8,9 as well as hundreds of other passages of Scripture in the Bible.
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

…………………
Now those of us who reject the Truth of unconditional election, that God has chosen only a portion out of mankind for grace and glory, and hath purposely decreed from all eternity that the rest shall be hardened and damned in their sins for the Glory of His Justice, the Elect being the Election of Grace, let it be known here and now, we reject Salvation by Grace through Faith ! ………………………

GE:

As I said, you draw an unrecognizable caricature of Calvinism; simply, a FALSE presentment.

The skew and icy features of your figuration could be shoved into better shape …

The Truth of Unconditional Election is, that
God from eternity out of unmerited mercy and undeserved love
had chosen only a portion or small rest
out of fallen, sinful, lost, mankind, for salvation;
and purposely had decreed from all eternity
that the gross of sinful mankind shall in their unprovoked, uncontrolled and uncontrollable sin,
be hardened and damned to the Glory of His Justice, Sovereignty, Order of Purpose and Council of Grace.
“Ye are saved by grace through faith— it [salvation, grace, faith] is the gift of God.” Yes, the gift of God by Christ, through Christ, in Christ and for the sake of Christ, “unto us”.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

TULIP



T: Unregenerate man --- Total depravity

U: God --- Unconditional election

L: Christ --- Limited atonement

I: Holy Spirit --- Irresistible Grace

P: Regenerate man --- Perseverance of the saints.

 

[Yeshua1]

the bib



Well the Truth of Election of Grace Rom 11:5,is the only way one can believe in Salvation by Grace through faith, not of works ! Vs 6



So are you stating that no one has to believe in salvation by Grace to give evidence that they are saved by the Grace of God ?



I am not talking about the five points of Tulip, but salvation by the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 15:11, you cannot separate the person of Christ from Salvation by His Grace !

If someone believes on a Christ that did not die to save exclusively the Election of Grace, then their Faith is not in the Christ of Scripture ! It's impossible. Now you can call it calvinism if you like, nothing is going to change what I just said !

No, we are saying that one is saved by the atonement of Christ upon the Cross the propiation required by god for sin, but hat we MUST have faith in him and that work in order to be the Elect of/by god!

its NOT if we hold to calvinism/arminians views, but if we have received by faith jesus and been saved by the Grace of God!

 

[savedbymercy]

No, we are saying that one is saved by the atonement of Christ upon the Cross the propiation required by god for sin, but hat we MUST have faith in him and that work in order to be the Elect of/by god!

its NOT if we hold to calvinism/arminians views, but if we have received by faith jesus and been saved by the Grace of God!

You can talk all you want, if you reject salvation by being one of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6, then you deny Salvation by Grace ! You cannot seperate Grace from Election of Grace !

we are saying that one is saved by the atonement of Christ upon the Cross the propiation required by god for sin,

You actually deny this. Do you believe the Atonement of Christ alone saved all for whom it was for ? I do, what say you ?

 

[savedbymercy]

GE:

As I said, you draw an unrecognizable caricature of Calvinism; simply, a FALSE presentment.

The skew and icy features of your figuration could be shoved into better shape …

The Truth of Unconditional Election is, that
God from eternity out of unmerited mercy and undeserved love
had chosen only a portion or small rest
out of fallen, sinful, lost, mankind, for salvation;
and purposely had decreed from all eternity
that the gross of sinful mankind shall in their unprovoked, uncontrolled and uncontrollable sin,
be hardened and damned to the Glory of His Justice, Sovereignty, Order of Purpose and Council of Grace.
“Ye are saved by grace through faith— it [salvation, grace, faith] is the gift of God.” Yes, the gift of God by Christ, through Christ, in Christ and for the sake of Christ, “unto us”.

If you reject salvation by one being of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6, then you reject a basic fundamental Gospel Truth of Salvation by Grace !

 

[savedbymercy]

tom

I am bowing out of this

I do not blame you tom, the Truth prevails !

 

[Yeshua1]

You can talk all you want, if you reject salvation by being one of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6, then you deny Salvation by Grace ! You cannot seperate Grace from Election of Grace !



You actually deny this. Do you believe the Atonement of Christ alone saved all for whom it was for ? I do, what say you ?

Its the BASIS of my sdalvations, the means that allows God to justify the ungodly, BUT for Him to declare me a saint, still MUST have faith in jesus and that Work to be saved!

Were you saved by God BEFORE you trusted in christ as your saviour and Lord?

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

For starters you have put two Scriptures unrelated to each other together to form your twisted doctrine.

They are very related, Just because you say they are not means nothing here !

They are all saved by grace through faith not of works.
Note well that faith is not a work. Rom.4:3-5 confirms that.

Peter says it correctly right here ! Acts 15:11; And if you reject Salvation by Being of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6, you also reject Salvation by grace through Faith, not of works !

You just said you reject salvation by grace through faith.

Where did I say that ? Please provide the quote or admit your dishonesty !

Man is saved by putting his faith in the shed blood of Christ.

Thats is a False Gospel of works. Men are saved by the Shed Blood of Christ PERIOD !

 

[DHK]

Thats is a False Gospel of works. Men are saved by the Shed Blood of Christ PERIOD !

The sacrifice of Christ is a free gift of God. It must be received by faith. Otherwise it does no good. Christ shed his blood in vain if it is not received by faith. If you have not received this precious gift by faith, there is no way that you can be saved.

You have refused to give your testimony on this board.
How did you come to Christ?
Are you saved? If so how?

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

The sacrifice of Christ is a free gift of God

Who denied that ? I stated that The Death of Christ saves PERIOD ! Now it appears you deny that !