Yes, Another Wine Thread!?!

Are you a psychologist by any chance? You certainly sound like one.

 

I guess the church in Corinth was getting drunk on grape juice...
Funny, but Paul didn't correct them over this...at least he could have said, "now you know you shouldn't drink wine, here is some welch's grape juice"

OH wait, he couldn't. Why?

IT WASN'T INVENTED YET!!!! not for another 1800 yrs.

For people that don't like to go back to the Greek, and want to claim English perfection, some are sure squirming on these wine threads, trying to prove their point in Greek and Hebrew.

Isn't that what the Bible calls double-minded?

 

I find it interesting that so many ignore the history of Baptists in regard to taking wine for communion.

First Baptist Dallas at one time used wine in a common cup. So many Baptists today do that in other countries. Isn't it amazing how so many Americans think they are the only people who are able to correctly interpret scripture and call drinking wine sin.

 

Re: Post #39

Brother Bob, you may very well be right. If you are, your point would be strengthened by hearing it first-hand from somebody who's been there. I do think you are right about alcoholics not all reacting the same way.

 

That's why we Americans must reach these heathen Baptists in foreign countries before it is too late...

Some Americans need a world view, and get out of their little communities, and realize we are not always right.

 

ooops wrong thread.

 

as has been pointed out before, the preservation of grape juice was practiced in Bible times.

Historians from that era have recorded such.

 

This method of preserving grape juice must have been in use long before the time of Pliny and Columella, because Cato (234-149 B.C.) mentions it two centuries before them: "If you wish to keep grape juice through the whole year, put the grape juice in an amphora, seal the stopper with pitch, and sink in the pond. Take it out after thirty days; it will remain sweet the whole year."78

78. Marcus Cato, On Agriculture 120, 1.

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/3.html

There are many other references to the preservation of fresh grape juice at this site, but I find this one the most interesting.

 

I'm going to do more later, but after doing a Google, most sites are either trying to "prove" that wine in the Bible wasn't really wine, they use modern methods of preserving them, or they involve fermentation itself or using alcohol as a preservative for fresh grapes. No time to read more than 20 pages right now, though.

 

Hope of Glory,

If you truly are wanting to learn the different kinds of wine in the Bible, Samuel Baccicocci (sp?) shows 33 times where the wine in the Bible is indeed unfermented. He shows other times when it is fermented.

He also explains the different methods of preserving alcohol free wine in ancient times and gives reference to historical quotes and books that quote such.

Read several chapters from his book here:
http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/2.html

 

Hey Hope,

Let me make it easy for you. When the Bible says something bad about wine then it is alcohol, and when it says something good about wine then it is grape juice. There's no need to google, just take my word for it.

 

Just hard to believe that there are people who adhere to the solid and fully Biblical teaching that alcohol is forbidden in the life of a Child of God, huh?

 

If you repented of drinking alcohol, we would welcome you to drink of the Lord's communion after the true Biblical fashion. If you did not, could not participate in the Lord's Communion. You would be drinking of the cup and eating of the bread unworthily.

 

A good and logical question you ask of which I may not be able to adequately answer, i.e. myself. But I believe the Bible has an answer to this question. Upon who did the nation Israel "stumble"? Who made them "stumble"? It was the very Son of God, but they made the choice of miscalculating. I don't find His Table involved in this matter, at this time. He says He will not drink of the "fruit of the vine" until He does it with His Apostles. He doesn't tell them to them stop once they start, and He doesn't tell we Christians to stop. We will all be able to join Him at the appropriate time. But not now. We are to remember Him.

To do His will we should obey Him and remember Him as oft as we will, with the bread and the wine. If "wine" is "wine", the Alcoholic is going to have to bite the bullet and make a decision. Do I, or don't I? It is their problem. We are told what "wine" can do to us if we let it. The recovered one should be able to take that very small amount of "wine" thanking God that they can now partake of His blood, while they remember Christ, and not them.

I gave verses which thus far no one has accused of being contradictory. I just quoted scripture, which I believe shows the "fruit of the vine" has a purpose and it is to make the "heart of man glad". Does "grape juice" do the job, or does "wine"? Somewhere along the line someone is going to have to come up with scripture/s that say otherwise.

I believe the following is on subject, as we do what we want when it comes to His Word.We Christians pat our own backs thinking how in the world could Israel fail to recognize that Jesus was their King? If we had been there would we have done any better? We have scripture, and do we believe it? Or do we make up some so we can do what we want.

Don't we observe the Catholic Holy Days, Christmas and Easter? Is this the Word of God? We all know neither of these is in scripture. We do them because we want to. We want to bow down under a tree we have decked with that which glitters (Jeremiah 10:1-4). We do this to make our "heart glad" in what for some unknown reason thinking we are pleasing Him. But to whom to we bring gifts?

Do we believe God or man when it comes to "wine"? Will the "Muslim" have anything to do with "wine"; Hinduism, Buddhism, Seventh day Adventist's, etc.? Is it not man we believe, instead of God?

I believe scripture. "Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes", Genesis 49:11. On a little donkey He rode into Jerusalem. We know what happened afterwards. We've read the book. He washed His garments in "blood", His own "blood". Can we deny that "wine" represents His Blood? Look at the next verse. Will "grape juice" bring on His "wrath"?

What about Numbers 28:7, "And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the Lord for a drink offering." There is strong wine in the Holy Place. We remember Him, and I do believe scripture tells us "wine" is strong, and we are to drink what He washed His garments in. This is what He "poured out" for us to drink.

 

Giving a recovering alcoholic even a communion cup of alcohol is a very dangerous thing to do. Even that amount can trigger his or her thirst for more.

There has already been the testimony of one whose husband partook of wine in a religious ceremony and when he would get out of the services, would rush off to buy more.

Alcohol in the life of a believer is forbidden and any person who says otherwise is being deceived big time.

 

If you miss the wine, then you truly have not repented.

 

Can you disprove scripture that was given? Kindly show scripture to back up your personal claim.