LOL...let me add..EMPHASIS MINE!The Underlined Version!
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Yes, it is possible to reconcile all of the New Testament Scriptures
- Thread starter Browner
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You just don't have the first clue what Romans 6:16-23 is all about.
Very quick summary of what Paul is explaining and warning:
These born-again believers have been set free from sin's bondage!
But, if they continue to be slaves of sin, eternal death awaits them!
Today's believers are so brainwashed and deceived
by Satan and their churches that:
-- they only see the passages they like
-- they ignore the troubling passages
You do not even see the oxymoron of your own statement!
"These born-again believers have been set free from sin's bondage! But, if they continue to be slaves of sin..."
Are they set free or are they still slaves? "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed" (John8:36)
The reason you error in your understanding is you do not allow for the false professing Christian. The scriptures allow for the false believer to exist and this is why Paul and the others make distinctions as to who will and who will not be saved. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (1Jo2:19)
The scripture even declares that a true believer may error in making judgments as to who is saved and who is not, so we are to be very careful in whom we root up and cast out. "So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them." (Matt13:27-29)
Remember Paul doubted the salvation of the Corinthians because of their sinful behavior and told them to "examine themselves" whether or not they had Jesus Christ in them, which would be Eternal life. "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates." (2Co13:5)
True believers will be convicted and repent as they grow and learn what is sin and what Jesus Christ wants them to do. This is a life long sanctification process. One is either born of God or one is not. There is no being born of God and still being hell bound, or bound by sin.
"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ...... (And for the true believer)........Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." (1Th5:23-24)
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First, it is questionable whether being born again ...
... just means having the Spirit inside.
Second, God will NOT overcome FOR believers ...
... who CHOOSE to live in habitual sin.
All kinds of overcoming verses ...
... Jesus said we must overcome like He overcame.
All kinds of enduring to the end verses ...
... to receive eternal life.
What do you think all of the dire warnings are for?
To prick the consciences of God's elect (the wheat)
... so they will get with God's program.
The tares will not.
So, you've got things partially right.
Brother, what is the definition of "Grace" ?
Are you saying these are the "aspects" involved? Please clarify...
As you consider your answer brother Browner, keep in mind this definition of merit:
mer·it
ˈmerət/
noun
noun: merit
1.
the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward.
"composers of outstanding merit"
synonyms: excellence, quality, caliber, worth, worthiness, credit, value, distinction, eminence
"composers of outstanding merit"
antonyms: inferiority
verb: merit; 3rd person present: merits; past tense: merited; past participle: merited; gerund or present participle: meriting
1.
deserve or be worthy of (something, especially reward, punishment, or attention).
"the results have been encouraging enough to merit further investigation"
synonyms: deserve, earn, be deserving of, warrant, rate, justify, be worthy of, be worth, be entitled to, have a right to, have a claim to/on
"the accusation did not merit a response"
mer·it
ˈmerət/
noun
noun: merit
1.
the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward.
"composers of outstanding merit"
synonyms: excellence, quality, caliber, worth, worthiness, credit, value, distinction, eminence
"composers of outstanding merit"
antonyms: inferiority
- a feature or fact that deserves praise or reward.
plural noun: merits
"the relative merits of both approaches have to be considered"
synonyms: good point, strong point, advantage, benefit, value, asset, plus
"the merits of the scheme"
antonyms: fault, disadvantage - British
a pass grade in an examination denoting above-average performance.
"if you expect to pass, why not go for a merit or a distinction?" - Law
the intrinsic rights and wrongs of a case, outside of any other considerations.
plural noun: merits
"a plaintiff who has a good arguable case on the merits" - Theology
good deeds regarded as entitling someone to a future reward from God.
plural noun: merits
verb: merit; 3rd person present: merits; past tense: merited; past participle: merited; gerund or present participle: meriting
1.
deserve or be worthy of (something, especially reward, punishment, or attention).
"the results have been encouraging enough to merit further investigation"
synonyms: deserve, earn, be deserving of, warrant, rate, justify, be worthy of, be worth, be entitled to, have a right to, have a claim to/on
"the accusation did not merit a response"
Yes, just one question, s'il vous plait?
Are you out of your mind?
No, my mind is just fine. Why do you ask?
Brother Browner, I understand how facing the definition of Grace becomes very difficult when one believes they must do good in order to be saved. This is not about winning an argument as much as it is about making certain we are standing on God's truth.
The Scriptures have to harmonize with Grace through Faith. Thus, there is only one option concerning these "warning" passages. A born-again Christian, who is saved by Grace through Faith, cannot then lose their salvation due to their bad deeds. Sin has many consequences and ALL wrong doing is sin. The distinction between the lost sinner and the saved sinner is faith alone is Jesus Christ.
There are false Christians, the scriptures allow for this. There are many deceived folks who may say or think they are Christians, the scriptures allow for this. But the truly born of God Christians are saved by grace through faith, not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. These Christians cannot lose what has been freely given. They can shipwreck their faith, make a mess of their lives, do shame to the cross of Christ, the scriptures allow for this, but they cannot become un-born of God.
Many true Christians are simply strays, needing a shepherd to help bring them into the light of holy living for Christ. I have witnessed to hundreds of professing Christians. You can tell which ones have not met Jesus Christ and which ones have just by their responses to the scriptures you share with them. True Christians respond positively to the Word of God. They feel conviction and will agree with God's Word concerning sins and Christian living. They will repent either immediately or work towards repentance depending on their situation (and their are thousands of situations, we must not make it our way, but allow the Holy Spirit to perform His works in His timing).
When I sense a person is a false Christian (and most false Christians are simply ignorant of what makes one a Christian) I change gears from preaching genuine Christian living (sanctification) to giving them the Gospel of Jesus Christ, explaining "ye must be born-again" and just what that means according to the scriptures.
It's all about preaching and teaching according to a correct understanding that their are truly born of God Christians, who are in many different situations for many different reasons, and their are false Christians who are usually just ignorant of what the scriptures teach on how one becomes a true Christian.
It's not about losing salvation. Once born of God always born of God. But their are many other situations the scriptures reveal to us. We must evaluate each situation we witness in.
Blessings!
The Scriptures have to harmonize with Grace through Faith. Thus, there is only one option concerning these "warning" passages. A born-again Christian, who is saved by Grace through Faith, cannot then lose their salvation due to their bad deeds. Sin has many consequences and ALL wrong doing is sin. The distinction between the lost sinner and the saved sinner is faith alone is Jesus Christ.
There are false Christians, the scriptures allow for this. There are many deceived folks who may say or think they are Christians, the scriptures allow for this. But the truly born of God Christians are saved by grace through faith, not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. These Christians cannot lose what has been freely given. They can shipwreck their faith, make a mess of their lives, do shame to the cross of Christ, the scriptures allow for this, but they cannot become un-born of God.
Many true Christians are simply strays, needing a shepherd to help bring them into the light of holy living for Christ. I have witnessed to hundreds of professing Christians. You can tell which ones have not met Jesus Christ and which ones have just by their responses to the scriptures you share with them. True Christians respond positively to the Word of God. They feel conviction and will agree with God's Word concerning sins and Christian living. They will repent either immediately or work towards repentance depending on their situation (and their are thousands of situations, we must not make it our way, but allow the Holy Spirit to perform His works in His timing).
When I sense a person is a false Christian (and most false Christians are simply ignorant of what makes one a Christian) I change gears from preaching genuine Christian living (sanctification) to giving them the Gospel of Jesus Christ, explaining "ye must be born-again" and just what that means according to the scriptures.
It's all about preaching and teaching according to a correct understanding that their are truly born of God Christians, who are in many different situations for many different reasons, and their are false Christians who are usually just ignorant of what the scriptures teach on how one becomes a true Christian.
It's not about losing salvation. Once born of God always born of God. But their are many other situations the scriptures reveal to us. We must evaluate each situation we witness in.
Blessings!
The problem with your scenario is that ...
You ignore the Scriptures which warn of believers:
actually losing eternal life (my favorite is Romans 6),
gaining eternal death,
not being allowed into the kingdom of God/heaven,
not being allowed into the New Jerusalem,
having their names erased from the Book of Life,
etc.
Happy New Year!
You have a "favorite" passage that you believe tells God's children they will be cast into hell?
You think Romans 6 declares those who have been saved can lose their salvation? Where? Not one sentence says any such thing. In fact it declares OSAS. You won't find any scriptures that declare the saved by grace may be lost due to merits. Go and learn what grace means.....
Yes, I have that revelation, while you are spiritually blind.
Just tell us why Paul warns the Roman believers 3 times in 8 verses
(Romans 6:16-23) that sin results in (eternal) death. WHY?
I understand grace (God's unmerited favor)
... because I have that revelation also:
(1) Grace that anyone at all can make heaven
(2) Grace that some were chosen to believe
(3) Grace that the repentance of on-going sins
of the chosen is accepted
This was written for others who may be open to the Truth,
which IMO, you are not.
It's interesting that Paul spent quite a bit of his writings addressing the contrast between Grace and the Law. Just as we see even today, even after having received Paul's letters, many believers in Jesus Christ just couldn't grasp the concept that God would totally justify a person apart from any kind of obedience to the Law.
Browner,
Do you understand when you speak of sin you are speaking of disobedience to the Law?
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." (1Jo3:4)
Do you understand obedience to the Law is called works of the Law?
Brother, I could post almost the entire book of Romans to support the point that Grace and Obedience to the Law are polar opposites for God's justification unto eternal life.
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified". (Gal2:16)
Do you see that brother? Do you understand that your obedience to the Law plays no part in your justification unto life?
Here is a good place to start...
"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference; For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (Ro3:21-24)
You say you understand Grace. Do you?
Blessings!
Careful Steaver......you have posted in a way to make Cals like your post.....lol.......you are swinging over....lol
So you highlight in bold "practice righteousness". So you think practicing righteousness, which is practicing works of the law, is what saves you? Regardless that Paul said " by works of the law shall no flesh be justified". And you say you are reconciling the scriptures???? How so?
Part of this "practicing righteousness" is what
you purposely have FAILED to address ...
Yes Steaver, I have that revelation, while you are spiritually blind.
Just tell us why Paul warns the Roman believers 3 times in 8 verses
(Romans 6:16-23) that sin results in (eternal) death. WHY?
Yes, I have that revelation, while you are spiritually blind.
Just tell us why Paul warns the Roman believers 3 times in 8 verses
(Romans 6:16-23) that sin results in (eternal) death. WHY?
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