Ylt?

[Rippon]

In translation work, though we translate from the Hebrew and Greek, it is still helpful to refer to translations in both English and the target language.

English = the target language. The target language is the language the original language is being translated into.

That's like you saying :"It's still helpful to refer to translations in both Japanese and the target language." Japanese and the target language are one and the same.

 

[John of Japan]

Yes, of course. I would expect that a translator would do so. But it sounded like you had found the overly literal YLT "helpful" in some sort of unique way.

Sorry for the confusion. I only ever consult it when trying to help my Japanese partner understand.

 

[preacher4truth]

Any body use this translation? Thoughts? What little I have read of it is really good. I started reading in the book of John...

It's a very good study help. I use it often via e-sword.

 

[John of Japan]

English = the target language. The target language is the language the original language is being translated into.

That's like you saying :"It's still helpful to refer to translations in both Japanese and the target language." Japanese and the target language are one and the same.

In my case Japanese is the target language, but I consult English translations, with English being the target language for their translators, but not for mine. Get it?

 

[Eliyahu]

YLT
YLT is a good translation faithful to the original texts in Hebrew and in Greek.
But sometimes it is excessively strict to the Hebrew text, causing some misunderstanding in the English translation.
For example, in Exodus 25:8 God commanded Moses to make a tabernacle so that He may dwell among Israel.
YLT translated it as a Perfect tense because the Hebrew text is in perfect tense. In this aspect, YLT made both of the tenses of Hebrew and English coincide each other.
However, the Perfect tense of Hebrew in this verse meant the divine commandment.
Therefore KJV used the Imperative for this verse. This will reduce the misunderstanding.
Exodus 25
8 And they have made for Me a sanctuary, and I have tabernacled in their midst;</SPAN> (YLT)
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. (KJV)
Exodus 28
2 and thou hast made holy garments for Aaron thy brother, for honour and for beauty;</SPAN> (YLT)
And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. (KJV)
6 and have made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen, work of a designer;</SPAN> (YLT)
6 And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work (KIV)

Grammatically, Hebrew text is in the Perfect tense as YLT, but the meaning is not the completed one but the divine commandment as in KJV.

This kind of cases takes place in many verses.
Another case is the YLT is strict to the singular/plural of the subject, while KJV is not.

For example, the context of the Hebrew original is often singular but the meaning is plural, then YLT rendered it as <he>, while KJV <they>

In some verses YLT has chosen better words for the contexts than KJV did.
For example, Zech 10:4
Zech 10 :4
From him [is] a corner-stone, From him a nail, from him a battle-bow, From him goeth forth every exactor together.</SPAN>
KJV : every oppressor
Here, YLT matches better than KJV, I believe.

YLT - Clergy System

In NT, YLT is very accurate in many verses..
Ephesians 4
11 and He gave some [as] apostles, and some [as] prophets, and some [as] proclaimers of good news, and some [as] shepherds and teachers,</SPAN>

KJV rendered Poimen as Pastors while YLT Shepherds.
KJV made a room for the Clergy system, mono-pastoral system which is from Catholic priest-clergy system
YLT correctly stays with Shepherd here.
YLT uses Oversight ( Overseer) for Acts 1:20 and 1 Tim 3:1 while KJV uses Bishops which is a product of Roman Catholic Clergy System.

Acts 1:20
for it hath been written in the book of Psalms: Let his lodging-place become desolate, and let no one be dwelling in it, and his oversight let another take.</SPAN>

YLT - Lord’s Supper

25 In like manner also the cup after the supping, saying, `This cup is the new covenant in my blood; this do ye, as often as ye may drink [it] -- to the remembrance of me;'</SPAN>
26 for as often as ye may eat this bread, and this cup may drink, the death of the Lord ye do shew forth -- till he may come;
YLT and KJV reflects the <Often> here as Greek Hosakis means, while NIV omits <often>.
Omission of this <Often > makes the churches replace the Lord Supper with the human sermons by pastors.
Doctrinally, I would say YLT is quite sound in many aspects, but it needs further thoughts about its excessively literal rendering of the tenses and the singular/plurality from Hebrew into English.

July 12, 2014
Eliyahu
Mississauga, ON

 

[convicted1]

YLT
YLT is a good translation faithful to the original texts in Hebrew and in Greek.
But sometimes it is excessively strict to the Hebrew text, causing some misunderstanding in the English translation.
For example, in Exodus 25:8 God commanded Moses to make a tabernacle so that He may dwell among Israel.
YLT translated it as a Perfect tense because the Hebrew text is in perfect tense. In this aspect, YLT made both of the tenses of Hebrew and English coincide each other.
However, the Perfect tense of Hebrew in this verse meant the divine commandment.
Therefore KJV used the Imperative for this verse. This will reduce the misunderstanding.
Exodus 25
8 And they have made for Me a sanctuary, and I have tabernacled in their midst;</SPAN> (YLT)
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. (KJV)
Exodus 28
2 and thou hast made holy garments for Aaron thy brother, for honour and for beauty;</SPAN> (YLT)
And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. (KJV)
6 and have made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen, work of a designer;</SPAN> (YLT)
6 And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work (KIV)

Grammatically, Hebrew text is in the Perfect tense as YLT, but the meaning is not the completed one but the divine commandment as in KJV.

This kind of cases takes place in many verses.
Another case is the YLT is strict to the singular/plural of the subject, while KJV is not.

For example, the context of the Hebrew original is often singular but the meaning is plural, then YLT rendered it as <he>, while KJV <they>

In some verses YLT has chosen better words for the contexts than KJV did.
For example, Zech 10:4
Zech 10 :4
From him [is] a corner-stone, From him a nail, from him a battle-bow, From him goeth forth every exactor together.</SPAN>
KJV : every oppressor
Here, YLT matches better than KJV, I believe.

YLT - Clergy System

In NT, YLT is very accurate in many verses..
Ephesians 4
11 and He gave some [as] apostles, and some [as] prophets, and some [as] proclaimers of good news, and some [as] shepherds and teachers,</SPAN>

KJV rendered Poimen as Pastors while YLT Shepherds.
KJV made a room for the Clergy system, mono-pastoral system which is from Catholic priest-clergy system
YLT correctly stays with Shepherd here.
YLT uses Oversight ( Overseer) for Acts 1:20 and 1 Tim 3:1 while KJV uses Bishops which is a product of Roman Catholic Clergy System.

Acts 1:20
for it hath been written in the book of Psalms: Let his lodging-place become desolate, and let no one be dwelling in it, and his oversight let another take.</SPAN>

YLT - Lord’s Supper

25 In like manner also the cup after the supping, saying, `This cup is the new covenant in my blood; this do ye, as often as ye may drink [it] -- to the remembrance of me;'</SPAN>
26 for as often as ye may eat this bread, and this cup may drink, the death of the Lord ye do shew forth -- till he may come;
YLT and KJV reflects the <Often> here as Greek Hosakis means, while NIV omits <often>.
Omission of this <Often > makes the churches replace the Lord Supper with the human sermons by pastors.
Doctrinally, I would say YLT is quite sound in many aspects, but it needs further thoughts about its excessively literal rendering of the tenses and the singular/plurality from Hebrew into English.

July 12, 2014
Eliyahu
Mississauga, ON

So, in your opinion, does the YLT do any harm to the verses you posted? What I can see, it doesn't. But I would value your opinion....thanks..

 

[Van]

YLT
YLT is a good translation faithful to the original texts in Hebrew and in Greek.
But sometimes it is excessively strict to the Hebrew text, causing some misunderstanding in the English translation.
For example, in Exodus 25:8 God commanded Moses to make a tabernacle so that He may dwell among Israel.
YLT translated it as a Perfect tense because the Hebrew text is in perfect tense. In this aspect, YLT made both of the tenses of Hebrew and English coincide each other.
However, the Perfect tense of Hebrew in this verse meant the divine commandment.
Therefore KJV used the Imperative for this verse. This will reduce the misunderstanding.
Exodus 25
8 And they have made for Me a sanctuary, and I have tabernacled in their midst;</SPAN> (YLT)
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. (KJV)
Exodus 28
2 and thou hast made holy garments for Aaron thy brother, for honour and for beauty;</SPAN> (YLT)
And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. (KJV)
6 and have made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen, work of a designer;</SPAN> (YLT)
6 And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work (KIV)

Grammatically, Hebrew text is in the Perfect tense as YLT, but the meaning is not the completed one but the divine commandment as in KJV.

This kind of cases takes place in many verses.
Another case is the YLT is strict to the singular/plural of the subject, while KJV is not.

For example, the context of the Hebrew original is often singular but the meaning is plural, then YLT rendered it as <he>, while KJV <they>

In some verses YLT has chosen better words for the contexts than KJV did.
For example, Zech 10:4
Zech 10 :4
From him [is] a corner-stone, From him a nail, from him a battle-bow, From him goeth forth every exactor together.</SPAN>
KJV : every oppressor
Here, YLT matches better than KJV, I believe.

YLT - Clergy System

In NT, YLT is very accurate in many verses..
Ephesians 4
11 and He gave some [as] apostles, and some [as] prophets, and some [as] proclaimers of good news, and some [as] shepherds and teachers,</SPAN>

KJV rendered Poimen as Pastors while YLT Shepherds.
KJV made a room for the Clergy system, mono-pastoral system which is from Catholic priest-clergy system
YLT correctly stays with Shepherd here.
YLT uses Oversight ( Overseer) for Acts 1:20 and 1 Tim 3:1 while KJV uses Bishops which is a product of Roman Catholic Clergy System.

Acts 1:20
for it hath been written in the book of Psalms: Let his lodging-place become desolate, and let no one be dwelling in it, and his oversight let another take.</SPAN>

YLT - Lord’s Supper

25 In like manner also the cup after the supping, saying, `This cup is the new covenant in my blood; this do ye, as often as ye may drink [it] -- to the remembrance of me;'</SPAN>
26 for as often as ye may eat this bread, and this cup may drink, the death of the Lord ye do shew forth -- till he may come;
YLT and KJV reflects the <Often> here as Greek Hosakis means, while NIV omits <often>.
Omission of this <Often > makes the churches replace the Lord Supper with the human sermons by pastors.
Doctrinally, I would say YLT is quite sound in many aspects, but it needs further thoughts about its excessively literal rendering of the tenses and the singular/plurality from Hebrew into English.

July 12, 2014
Eliyahu
Mississauga, ON

Very informative, I learned several things I had not known. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

 

[Eliyahu]

YLT is worthwhile for the reference, but it may be difficult to use it as the main text for the OT portion. It can be used for the comparison with KJV.
Compared to YLT, KJV is not faithful with the principle of word to word translation
One example in NT.

Matthew 1:20
YLT :
And on his thinking of these things, lo, a messenger of the Lord in a dream appeared to him, saying, `Joseph, son of David, thou mayest not fear to receive Mary thy wife, for that which in her was begotten (is) of the Holy Spirit,</SPAN>

KJV
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost</SPAN>

Darby
but while he pondered on these things, behold, an angel of [the] Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, son of David, fear not to take to [thee] Mary, thy wife, for that which is begotten in her is of [the] Holy Spirit.</SPAN>

HCSB, NKJV, NIV, ESV, and others rendered <genao> verb into conceive.
However, genao verb has been rendered mostly <beget> <begotten> i.e
Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob,.. All these begot was the translation of genao verb.
Therefore, YLT and Darby are correct! Jesus was already begotten in Mary before He came out of her! This rejects the theory of Biological motherhood of Mary but supports the idea that Mary was just a surrogate mother. Jesus didn’t have 50% of DNA from Mary and 50 % from God.
Jesus was just another Adam before the Fall. Adam before the Fall was made in the likeness of Jesus.
So, Jesus Himself received 100% from the Father, 100% for the divine nature and for the human nature, nothing from Mary, as He was born already in her as a perfect human being.
Jesus was not the product of the fertilization between Mary’s ovum and God’s sperm.
Regardless of this kind of theology, YLT and Darby have been faithful with the Word to Word translation.

Eliyahu
July 15, 2014

 

[Eliyahu]

So, in your opinion, does the YLT do any harm to the verses you posted? What I can see, it doesn't. But I would value your opinion....thanks..

YLT is worthwhile for the reference, but it may be difficult to use it as the main text for the OT portion. It can be used for the comparison with KJV.

( I forgot to use Quote and Edit system of BB as I don't come often)

 

[Van]

Just a quick note to point out the Christology presented in the above post #28 is not a mainline view.

The Greek word "gennao" (Strong,s G1080) is used to refer both to "fathering" i.e. such and such fathered such and such and to being conceived, i.e. spiritually born anew.

Using this widely accepted meaning, then Joseph was told the baby had been fathered by the Holy Spirit.

The YLT does have the draw back of using archaic English words, but that represents a small hindrance compared with more thought for thought translations where the message is sometimes obscured or obliterated.

 

[convicted1]

Thank you Brothers Van and Eliyahu(sp?) for your imput on this thread....

 

[Eliyahu]

Just a quick note to point out the Christology presented in the above post #28 is not a mainline view.

The Greek word "gennao" (Strong,s G1080) is used to refer both to "fathering" i.e. such and such fathered such and such and to being conceived, i.e. spiritually born anew.

Using this widely accepted meaning, then Joseph was told the baby had been fathered by the Holy Spirit.

The YLT does have the draw back of using archaic English words, but that represents a small hindrance compared with more thought for thought translations where the message is sometimes obscured or obliterated.

Van, Thanks for the comment.

As you meant, I don't want to extend the discussion to the Christology here either.
However, to point out the Word to Word principle by which the people understand KJV is translated instead of Dynamic Equivalence,
KJV rendered genao verb into < beget> in the verses from Mt 1:2-16, but it rendered the same genao verb into <conceive> in verse 1:20.

The problem is that most of the readers do not know that the same original word is underlying both <beget > and < conceive>, giving the different thoughts between v 2-16 and v 20.

Please imagine the translation like this:

Abraham conceived Isaac, Isaac conceived Jacob,..

In that aspect, YLT maintained the consistency in rendering unless there is a specific and clear reason for the deviation.

Also, YLT revealed the important truth that Jesus Christ was already born inside Mary een before He was born in v 1:25.