You’ve Been Catfished!

[utilyan]

Tomorrow Roman Catholics celebrate the feast of Mary Queen of Heaven.

I ask our two wafer worshipping warriors a simple, uncomplicated question:

Why is it that Mary, who allegedly holds the title, ‘Queen of Heaven,’ not mentioned once in the many descriptions of Heaven given in the Revelation; nor is she mentioned by the Apostle John, who is the very disciple to whom Jesus entrusted her welfare while she remained alive on earth?

Certainly seeing Mary enthroned next to her Son would be reason enough for John to share such a glorious site with all Christians.

And would not the Holy Spirit, who inspired John's writing, also want to glorify her in the sight of God's people by making a point of mentioning her radiant beauty sitting on her throne as Queen, ever interceding for sinners?

Jewish custom the Mother of the King is the Queen. western custom is wife is the queen. Mary getting title of Queen isn't dependent on revelations.

Who the woman is in revelations could be Mary and a lot more.

Remember chapters and verses were added later. There is a work up, a climax in revelation 11 as the lost ark which is highly revered among Jews appears.
Rev 11
19And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm.
Rev 12
1A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; 2and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.


Rev 12
5And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron;

The child the woman is pregnant with is Jesus Christ. The woman is Mary, The Ark, Israel, The Church.

It would be pretty tough to not have Mary represent Israel and Church given she gave birth to Christ.

If nothing in existence was called King only Jesus Christ, Mary would be Queen in the truest sense.

The TITLE queen of heaven is laughable next to the reality that she gave birth to Jesus Christ, an honor, prize, gift, privilege, exultation incomprehensible.

If you could take the entire universe and make it bite size so Mary could eat it and not truckload of those would carry the praise of giving birth to Jesus Christ.

Folks might be offended If I claimed Mary was President of the church or the planet, and yet all of it would be worthless next to the fact she gave birth to Jesus Christ.

If we all decide unanimously that Mary is not queen, not Israel, not the ark, not mentioned in revelation, The God given praise of mothering Jesus Christ makes everything else look like trash.

Mary has WON, in every sense of the word win. And if you want help not believing Mary won you have to dump the value of Jesus Christ.

Your surprised Jesus delivered Honor your Father and Mother a tad bit better then other folks?


What title or claim given can top handed Jesus Christ infant in your care. The proportion is measured by what Jesus means to you.

If you don't care about Jesus you might be offended if Mary is called Queen of Walmart. But if you value Jesus#1 it makes more sense to be offended with Mary being allowed to be Mother of Jesus at all.

Its like if I gave you a patch you put on your shirt "GOD's Best Friend" vs BEING GOD's Best Friend.

The TITLE is NOTHING. She gave birth to Jesus Christ, She mothered him, She changed his diapers!

 

[Protestant]

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Sounds like the Blessed Mother to me.

Use a shred of common sense.
Was the mother of Jesus in Heaven or was she in a stable giving birth to Jesus?
Where in the Gospels does a great red dragon stand before the woman, Mary, delivering Jesus?
Where in the Gospels does it state Mary fled into the wilderness?
And why does the Holy Spirit speaking through John not use Mary's name, if this woman was, indeed, Mary?
Why the anonymity?

Sounds like you've been Catfished to me.

 

[DHK]

The Jews don't believe the bible with New Testament addition. He believes the word of your bible has been corrupted and only that which remains in the old testament is true. The Jews don't believe in the deity of Christ therefore does not believe in the same God you do. Some believe that Christ was a good rabbi, not even a prophet. THEREFORE, can any of the old testament and modern Jews be worshipping the same God and be called a child of God when he denies the very one who makes him a child.

^Same logic applied.

You went to anti-Islam website to tell you what Muslims believe. Did you go to a Nazi website to find out what Jews believe?

Jesus Christ is Jewish.

You know what go back thinking your the only child of God, and then GROW UP, your probably more right then you want to be.
You let us handle the Muslims and Jews.

First , the Jews rejected Christ as their Messiah, and don't believe in His deity.
The Bible says:
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Judaism is a false religion just as Islam is.
The God of the Jews is not the same as the God of the Bible; the same goes for Islam. Both reject the true God--The Lord Jesus Christ.

Second, I never went to any "anti-Muslim" site. I went to a site that gives you the etymology of the word "Allah," otherwise almost everyone on this board knows what Islam believes, and that their god is not the God of the Bible, but rather in direct opposition to Christianity--a Satanically inspired religion created to spread fear and heresy among those that don't believe. It is a religion of Satan, not of God.

 

[utilyan]

I think you might have things a bit backward here brother. We believe in the same God that the Jews believe in, except we believe that the same God was incarnated here on earth in the form of Jesus Christ. Both are still the same deity and the fact that the Jews reject Him (Christ) in no way removes them from salvation. They (the Jews) are His people and will remain so forever.

Our friend makes a good point when he says the God the Muslims believe in just might not be the same God. To believe that, one would have to believe that the words Muhammad wrote were true, that he was giving mankind God's words you know, all those things about how us infidels should be treated and fighting a holy war against us and such. We believe in a God of love and mercy, our Father in heaven, quite unlike the Muslims who see God as their master - there is no familial relationship between Him and them as there is with us.

Is this the same God? Only time will tell for sure.

Perhaps we should see the Holy Father's opinion in this area as somewhat of a mistake, even though I am sure he does have a good reason for his particular viewpoint.

I'm not sure if you were addressing me. I believe in the same God the Jews believe in. I'm just applying the logic he used to the Jews. Read what I'm replying to. If Jesus is not God then it has to be another God according to his logic.


We worship the same God. The Muslim intention is God of Abraham a faith revealed by Arch Angel Gabriel.

Do I think they are wrong about our relationship with God , you bet. Just like I think Calvinist got a completely different character of God then I do. Intentionally its Jesus though which is a notch better then Muslims in terms of God being incarnated.

A Muslim can tell me God is not a Father and in the same breathe say God's love for humanity is greater then a parent.



Scripture shows there is a sufficient grace applied to all beliefs even non-beliefs like Atheism

Romans 1

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

 

[utilyan]

First , the Jews rejected Christ as their Messiah, and don't believe in His deity.
The Bible says:
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Judaism is a false religion just as Islam is.
The God of the Jews is not the same as the God of the Bible; the same goes for Islam. Both reject the true God--The Lord Jesus Christ.

Second, I never went to any "anti-Muslim" site. I went to a site that gives you the etymology of the word "Allah," otherwise almost everyone on this board knows what Islam believes, and that their god is not the God of the Bible, but rather in direct opposition to Christianity--a Satanically inspired religion created to spread fear and heresy among those that don't believe. It is a religion of Satan, not of God.

Samaritan reject Christ as their messiah. Are you going to share the DAMNED SAMARITAN NOW?

 

[DHK]

Samaritan reject Christ as their messiah. Are you going to share the DAMNED SAMARITAN NOW?

As I said before, I never referred to any such thing. You brought that up. I don't know where it came from except from your own lips (or keyboard). Therefore you must tell it. It is your obligation, not mine.

 

[DHK]

I

We worship the same God. The Muslim intention is God of Abraham a faith revealed by Arch Angel Gabriel.

When did you renounce Christianity and become a Muslim?
That is what I conclude from the above statement. It is not what Christianity believes, and is not the God of Christianity or of the Bible. So are you a Muslim now, as you admit "We worship the same God." I certainly don't.

 

[utilyan]

When did you renounce Christianity and become a Muslim?
That is what I conclude from the above statement. It is not what Christianity believes, and is not the God of Christianity or of the Bible. So are you a Muslim now, as you admit "We worship the same God." I certainly don't.

The only thing worth concluding is you don't know how to read. You get me wrong all the time its no wonder you got the bible all screwed up.

 

[utilyan]

As I said before, I never referred to any such thing. You brought that up. I don't know where it came from except from your own lips (or keyboard). Therefore you must tell it. It is your obligation, not mine.

Samaritans reject Christ as their Messiah, hence they are Samaritans rather then Christians.

 

[DHK]

The only thing worth concluding is you don't know how to read. You get me wrong all the time its no wonder you got the bible all screwed up.

You said:

We worship the same God.

And though you tried to explain yourself this statement in and of itself is heretical. We do not worship the same God. Far from it. To worship the same God is paganism, idolatry, even the worship of Satan, for it is a Satan-inspired religion. They are not the same God. How do you expect to work yourself out of that statement??

 

[DHK]

Samaritans reject Christ as their Messiah, hence they are Samaritans rather then Christians.

Yes, Samaritans rejected Christ as their Messiah.
Christians did not; they accepted Him as their Messiah.
Therefore who believes in Christ as Lord and Savior?
Certainly not the Samaritans. They believe in a different god, don't they? They have a false religion.

 

[utilyan]

You said:

And though you tried to explain yourself this statement in and of itself is heretical. We do not worship the same God. Far from it. To worship the same God is paganism, idolatry, even the worship of Satan, for it is a Satan-inspired religion. They are not the same God. How do you expect to work yourself out of that statement??

Acts 17

22So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. 23“For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. 24“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’ 29“Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. 30“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”


No Paul its not like how their poets/scripture has said, they are not God's children. No they don't worship Jesus Christ, the pagans......Sorry Paul you can't do this Paul. What are you doing Paul?

He tells them what they worship in ignorance he has come to proclaim to them.

You wouldn't have preached this way to pagans, just like you did now you would just damn them and call them false religion.

Paul is NOTHING like you. That's a Christian in action.

He is agreeing with PAGAN POETS that is PAGAN SCRIPTURE.

He is quoting PAGAN SCRIPTURE that says "FOR WE ALSO ARE HIS CHILDREN"

You NEVER quote the Quran to promote Christianity. NO WAY. You are not like Paul at all.


I can tell Paul makes you sick so folks try to rewrite that pagans are like some 2nd class children of God. Yeah makes a lot of sense except he is QUOTING THE PAGAN SCRIPTURES which totally trashes your foundation.



Oh and it gets better.


Paul says:

27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

God gave everyone the sufficiency to FIND HIM. And that God wasn't far from any of them.
EACH ONE OF US.


All God's Children. God desires ALL to seek and grope for him. God is not far from each one of us.

Paul is not saying this only to believers, Because despite this some sneered and rejected Paul.

 

[DHK]

Acts 17

22So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. 23“For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. 24“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’ 29“Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. 30“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”


No Paul its not like how their poets/scripture has said, they are not God's children. No they don't worship Jesus Christ, the pagans......Sorry Paul you can't do this Paul. What are you doing Paul?

He tells them what they worship in ignorance he has come to proclaim to them.

You wouldn't have preached this way to pagans, just like you did now you would just damn them and call them false religion.

Paul is NOTHING like you. That's a Christian in action.

He is agreeing with PAGAN POETS that is PAGAN SCRIPTURE.

He is quoting PAGAN SCRIPTURE that says "FOR WE ALSO ARE HIS CHILDREN"

You NEVER quote the Quran to promote Christianity. NO WAY. You are not like Paul at all.


I can tell Paul makes you sick so folks try to rewrite that pagans are like some 2nd class children of God. Yeah makes a lot of sense except he is QUOTING THE PAGAN SCRIPTURES which totally trashes your foundation.



Oh and it gets better.


Paul says:

27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

God gave everyone the sufficiency to FIND HIM. And that God wasn't far from any of them.
EACH ONE OF US.


All God's Children. God desires ALL to seek and grope for him. God is not far from each one of us.

Paul is not saying this only to believers, Because despite this some sneered and rejected Paul.

Paul is speaking to the unsaved in Acts 17:28,29.
Here is what the verses say in the KJV

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Compare this with John 1:12 when John uses the word "children" to refer to a child of God, one who comes to Christ by faith:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Or,
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Now look at these verses in the Greek:

Acts 17:28 εν αυτω γαρ ζωμεν και κινουμεθα και εσμεν ως και τινες των καθ υμας ποιητων ειρηκασιν του γαρ και γενος εσμεν
29 γενος ουν υπαρχοντες του θεου ουκ οφειλομεν νομιζειν χρυσω η αργυρω η λιθω χαραγματι τεχνης και ενθυμησεως ανθρωπου το θειον ειναι ομοιον

The word is "genos."
Strong gives this definition.
genos
ghen'-os
From G1096; “kin” (abstractly or concretely, literally or figuratively, individually or collectively): - born, country (-man), diversity, generation, kind (-red), nation, offspring, stock.
Total KJV occurrences: 21
IOW, we all come from God. All generations of people; all nations, originate from God. There is no man that has not been created from God.

Now consider the bolded words in John 1:12 and Romans 8:16, both speaking of Christians:

John 1:12 οσοι δε ελαβον αυτον εδωκεν αυτοις εξουσιαν τεκνα θεου γενεσθαι τοις πιστευουσιν εις το ονομα αυτου

Romans 8:16 αυτο το πνευμα συμμαρτυρει τω πνευματι ημων οτι εσμεν τεκνα θεου

The bolded word is "tekna" which is translated "sons" in Jn.1:12, and "children" in Rom.8:16.
Strong's says:
tek'-non
From the base of G5098; a child (as produced): - child, daughter, son.
Total KJV occurrences: 99

This is the word that is used for child, son or daughter.
In Romans 8:16 it is used in the plural and with God, meaning "children of God."
It has a completely different meaning than "ethnos" where we get our word "ethnic" Gentile, nations.

They were created by God but did not serve the same God that the Bible speaks of. Therefore Paul told them of that God who saves so that they could be saved.
The conclusion:

Acts 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
--Not all believe.

Acts 17:34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
--but some do.

 

[utilyan]

Paul is speaking to the unsaved in Acts 17:28,29.
Here is what the verses say in the KJV

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Compare this with John 1:12 when John uses the word "children" to refer to a child of God, one who comes to Christ by faith:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Or,
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Now look at these verses in the Greek:

Acts 17:28 εν αυτω γαρ ζωμεν και κινουμεθα και εσμεν ως και τινες των καθ υμας ποιητων ειρηκασιν του γαρ και γενος εσμεν
29 γενος ουν υπαρχοντες του θεου ουκ οφειλομεν νομιζειν χρυσω η αργυρω η λιθω χαραγματι τεχνης και ενθυμησεως ανθρωπου το θειον ειναι ομοιον

The word is "genos."
Strong gives this definition.
genos
ghen'-os
From G1096; “kin” (abstractly or concretely, literally or figuratively, individually or collectively): - born, country (-man), diversity, generation, kind (-red), nation, offspring, stock.
Total KJV occurrences: 21
IOW, we all come from God. All generations of people; all nations, originate from God. There is no man that has not been created from God.

Now consider the bolded words in John 1:12 and Romans 8:16, both speaking of Christians:

John 1:12 οσοι δε ελαβον αυτον εδωκεν αυτοις εξουσιαν τεκνα θεου γενεσθαι τοις πιστευουσιν εις το ονομα αυτου

Romans 8:16 αυτο το πνευμα συμμαρτυρει τω πνευματι ημων οτι εσμεν τεκνα θεου

The bolded word is "tekna" which is translated "sons" in Jn.1:12, and "children" in Rom.8:16.
Strong's says:
tek'-non
From the base of G5098; a child (as produced): - child, daughter, son.
Total KJV occurrences: 99

This is the word that is used for child, son or daughter.
In Romans 8:16 it is used in the plural and with God, meaning "children of God."
It has a completely different meaning than "ethnos" where we get our word "ethnic" Gentile, nations.

They were created by God but did not serve the same God that the Bible speaks of. Therefore Paul told them of that God who saves so that they could be saved.
The conclusion:

Acts 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
--Not all believe.

Acts 17:34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
--but some do.

READ my post I already mentioned "2nd class children". I already know the "offspring" argument.

If all your MAMA's offspring are all idiots who am I talking about? The stuff in the toilet?

 

[DHK]

READ my post I already mentioned "2nd class children". I already know the "offspring" argument.

If all your MAMA's offspring are all idiots who am I talking about? The stuff in the toilet?

Your conclusion is still wrong. Paul wasn't speaking to any believers. There weren't any there.
This presupposition of yours is also wrong:

I can tell Paul makes you sick so folks try to rewrite that pagans are like some 2nd class children of God. Yeah makes a lot of sense except he is QUOTING THE PAGAN SCRIPTURES which totally trashes your foundation.

What on earth would make you think that?
You are one confused individual.

BTW, Paul didn't quote from any pagan scriptures whatsoever. He quoted from a poet, a piece of Greek literature, and that is all. Neither he nor they considered it inspired. What would give you the idea that they did?

 

[utilyan]

Your conclusion is still wrong. Paul wasn't speaking to any believers. There weren't any there.
This presupposition of yours is also wrong:

What on earth would make you think that?
You are one confused individual.

BTW, Paul didn't quote from any pagan scriptures whatsoever. He quoted from a poet, a piece of Greek literature, and that is all. Neither he nor they considered it inspired. What would give you the idea that they did?

Brother if you want learn from pagan scripture, you might pick up a POET named Homer.

The Poet or Bard that is the equivalent of pagan culture, Even in Islam the Quran is a recitation first prior to be written down. The words on the statue are scripture on the statue.

You want to force a square peg, believers only, into a round hole, children of God. Instead of extracting the truth from scripture you want to imprint your "truth" to scripture and ITS NOT HAPPENING.

I'm showing you why with this question. Squirm and twist all you want.

Who is your Mother's offspring?

 

[DHK]

Brother if you want learn from pagan scripture, you might pick up a POET named Homer.

Homer lived in the 800's though some argue for the 600's BCE. he was a Greek philosopher, a poet, who wrote the Illiad and the Odyssey. They are two famous works of literature, but do not compare to any scripture. They were and are not scripture.

Paul quoted from a poet. He states that he quoted from a poet. He never once even infers that this poet was one of their prophets, or part of their scriptures. You are wrong to infer such.

The Poet or Bard that is the equivalent of pagan culture, Even in Islam the Quran is a recitation first prior to be written down. The words on the statue are scripture on the statue.

A poet is divorced from a prophet. The two are not the same, though some prophets are able to write poetically like David was able to do.
Pagans without inspiration from any spirit can write poetry. All poetry is not scripture. That is the implication or even your conclusion that you are giving. It is not rational.
If I write poetry, does that make me a prophet, whether or not I am saved??

You want to force a square peg, believers only, into a round hole, children of God. Instead of extracting the truth from scripture you want to imprint your "truth" to scripture and ITS NOT HAPPENING.

The truth is in Scripture. You refuse to believe it.

I'm showing you why with this question. Squirm and twist all you want.

Who is your Mother's offspring?

The Bible was written in Greek not English. Your question is irrelevant. Go back and reread the explanation along with the Greek words and their definitions. The NT was originally written in Greek. Paul did not use the KJV!

 

[utilyan]

Homer lived in the 800's though some argue for the 600's BCE. he was a Greek philosopher, a poet, who wrote the Illiad and the Odyssey. They are two famous works of literature, but do not compare to any scripture. They were and are not scripture.

Paul quoted from a poet. He states that he quoted from a poet. He never once even infers that this poet was one of their prophets, or part of their scriptures. You are wrong to infer such.


A poet is divorced from a prophet. The two are not the same, though some prophets are able to write poetically like David was able to do.
Pagans without inspiration from any spirit can write poetry. All poetry is not scripture. That is the implication or even your conclusion that you are giving. It is not rational.
If I write poetry, does that make me a prophet, whether or not I am saved??


The truth is in Scripture. You refuse to believe it.


The Bible was written in Greek not English. Your question is irrelevant. Go back and reread the explanation along with the Greek words and their definitions. The NT was originally written in Greek. Paul did not use the KJV!

Squirm and twist all you want.
Who is your Mother's offspring?

 

[utilyan]

They fashioned a tomb for you, holy and high one,
Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies.
But you are not dead: you live and abide forever,
For in you we live and move and have our being.

--Pagan Scripture. Minos addressing Zues.


"for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said" --Paul Acts 17

Oh you thought the quote was Just the Children oh I mean "offspring" part.


It gets BETTER.

Epimenides wrote it first. Cretica is the poem.

This "POET" gets mentioned again.

Titus 1
12One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”


Did he just call my buddy a prophet?

Why are the quoting pagan prophets?


Buddy you don't want to find the truth. You got your own idea and you want to force into the bible.

That is taking something pagan and Christianizing it. And if Paul was here today he would be doing this to Muslims.

Yeah you are right, its like you says Al-Wadud God is Love, and this is what I'm here to proclaim to you, that God so loved the world he gave his only son Jesus Christ that who so believes will not die but have everlasting life.

The inscription is to a unknown god or goddess

 

[DHK]

To quote from Believers Bible Commentary:
1:12 Here Paul reminds Titus of the kind of people he is dealing with. The unusually blunt and caustic description was true of the false teachers in particular and of the Cretans in general. He quotes Epimenides, one of their own poetic spokesmen who lived around 600 b.c., as calling them inveterate liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons. It seems that every people has national characteristics, but few could beat the Cretans in depravity. They were habitual and compulsive liars. They were like fierce animals, living to indulge gross and wild passions. Allergic to work and addicted to gluttony, they lived lives that were all kitchen and no chapel!

Robertson says:
A prophet of their own (idios autōn prophētēs). “Their own prophet.” Self-styled “prophet” (or poet), and so accepted by the Cretans and by Cicero and Apuleius, that is Epimenides who was born in Crete at Cnossos. It is a hexameter line and Callimachus quoted the first part of it in a Hymn to Zeus. It is said that Epimenides suggested to the Athenians the erection of statues to “unknown gods” (Act_17:23).

Paul seems to use the term both derisively and sarcastically. How can a person who always lies be a prophet?