Whose will is dominant in salvation, the will of God or yours?
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". . .you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)
- Thread starter thatbrian
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John 10
37“If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
Meaning of this verse please.
It gives me the impression that a NON-BELIEVER aka one who is not his sheep, is being encouraged to BELIEVE aka to become one of his sheep.
If I am wrong please explain this verse.
37“If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
Meaning of this verse please.
It gives me the impression that a NON-BELIEVER aka one who is not his sheep, is being encouraged to BELIEVE aka to become one of his sheep.
If I am wrong please explain this verse.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
Hank has been a self-avowed mugwump as long as I've been a member here.
You know this BB would be a better place if some of you brethren, would start quoting scripture then your own personal opinion... Brother Glen
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
I think you need to study the Grace of God, then maybe you can understand the Will of God... Because without the combined Grace and Will of God alone we would all be in HELL!... Brother Glen
I don't find that an acceptable position for a man.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
You know this BB would be a better place if some of you brethren, would start quoting scripture then your own personal opinion... Brother Glen
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
I think you need to study the Grace of God, then maybe you can understand the Will of God... Because without the combined Grace and Will of God alone we would all be in HELL!... Brother Glen
Romans 10:8-21 for starters
So what is it?... Do you believe to change your heart, or because God alone changes your heart you believe?... Brother Glen
Btw... The natural man is Spiritually discerned!
So what is it?... Do you believe to change your heart, or because God alone changes your heart you believe?... Brother Glen
Btw... The natural man is Spiritually discerned!
So when Jesus says REPENT! he's commanding himself to REPENT?
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
The shepherd makes the first move: He presents them with something they need....FOOD. Then as he walks along, they follow. But it is the sheep who decide to follow. That is how it works.
That doesn't explain why some sheep come, but John 6 does. Some sheep follow Christ because they are the ones given to the Son by the Father. They follow because they recognize His voice.
As not many of us a shepherds, we would likely miss what Jesus is explaining here. Shepherds would pen their sheep in communal pens at night to protect them from harm. In the morning when the shepherd takes his sheep from the pen, he calls to them. Those sheep which are his come to him. They follow him, but the other sheep do not.
Sheep are owned, and they don't choose who owns them. They don't say to themselves, I'll follow this shepherd. . .
Actually, they do.
You may have paid for them; you may have the bill of sale showing ownership; but they follow whoever feeds them.
My calves know my voice; and they know that when I say a certain phrase a certain way, there will be food. They've gotten out a few times and mingled into the neighbor's herd; but when I call them, they respond. Now, here's the kicker: the neighbor's calves know my voice, and that when I call, my calves will be fed, and they respond, too. Even if it's just mooing in frustration that they're not getting fed like my calves.
But they're not mine.
How about for a woman?
My point, Don, which was not well-stated, was that they can't determine ownership for themselves. When Jesus says, "My sheep" He is determining which sheep are His. The sheep don't decide that. According to the text, they follow Him because they are His already. Their following him is a demonstration that they are his. Also, sheep don't eat grain. They eat grass. Shepherds don't feed sheep like you feed your calves.
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I beg your pardon, the natural person has no spiritual discernment. The things of God are foolishness to the unregenerate.
1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
There that's better!... Brother Glen
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
You're just the man I need to help me. Please come to my farm and tell my sheep that they don't eat grain, because they don't know it yet. I'm buying a ton and a half of corn per load and they're eating it like candy. I was feeding them oats too but it is even more expensive. These are mine eating grain at the trough......
I don't know man, I've fed calves from a bottle and fed sheep from a bottle. I've fed calves at a trough and sheep as well. I have fed calves out of my hand many times too. These are some of my sheep.......
Felipe Rios
Member
All of God, but we still make the choice to accept or reject.
So, it is "all of God" but still "some of you?"
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