Scripture?
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You can be a Christian and deny essential doctrine
- Thread starter evangelist6589
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Post the passage and we can go through it.
Perhaps it is something from this?
https://www.crossway.org/tracts/paid-in-full-2802/
or from here:
(I removed this because it seems to be linked to the Garner Ted Armstrong group.)
anyone ever been penalized for being paid a wage?
Isaiah 53:3-10
Clearly the prophet is foretelling here under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that the coming Messiah will die in the stead of the people of God, taking on their sin debt/penalty, and would be crushed/bruised/wounded for our sake, but taking the very wrath of God due to us as lost sinners!
How about this example:
A man stands on trial for murder. He is found guilty of the crime but has repented and turned from crime. The judge sentences the man to death as required by the law, but then tells the officer to release the prisoner. He steps down and takes the punishment himself, satisfying the demands of the law while having mercy on the guilty.
And the families of the children slaughtered by the man rejoice because this justice glorifies the judge as just and righteous.
Retributive justice just does not work. I understand why Calvin articulated the Atonement within that context, and I can even understand why we do today. But I can't for the life of me understand how we could be blind to the fact it is not actually stated in the Bible.
See # 164
Unless you believe that the punishment the lost will experience at Judgment is to be beaten and nailed to a cross by their fellow countrymen your argument is void.
You are assuming that God was being wrathful to Jesus by punishing Him with what the lost will experience at Judgment. Isaiah does not state this and nowhere (until late in history) did the Church interpret it this way.
God was NOT wrathful towards Jesus due to Jesus doing sinning, but God WAS indeed pouring out the wrath on Jesus, as He was taking upon Himself all that meant while bearing sin on the Cross!
ECF saw it that way, many of them, as have many reformers and others....
I didn't say "due to Jesus doing sinning". The point is that nowhere in Scripture does God appear as being wrathful towards Christ (God was pleased to crush him, to offer him as a guilt offering....BUT he is eternally God's beloved and God's righteous).
Difference between belief and blood concerning the final estate:
If the wrath of God in the final judgement is based upon sins, then there would of necessary be and end to the punishment. For that is most certainly the terms of justice when using retributive system thinking. Such resolves to the RCC, Mormons, and others who project that eternal flames are have some type of retributive purifying effect that one day all end up in heaven.
However, if the wrath of God in the final judgement is based upon unbelief, there is no finality to the torment, but forever.
If the wrath of God in the final judgement is based upon sins, then there would of necessary be and end to the punishment. For that is most certainly the terms of justice when using retributive system thinking. Such resolves to the RCC, Mormons, and others who project that eternal flames are have some type of retributive purifying effect that one day all end up in heaven.
However, if the wrath of God in the final judgement is based upon unbelief, there is no finality to the torment, but forever.
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