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You cannot trust the NIV!

E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
ex-nihilo: //I checked the link out and I'm still looking
for evidence in the KJVO crowd is part of the New Age Movement.//

The link had nothing to do with my statement
that the KJVO Movement is a subset of the New Age Movement.

xdisciplex said:
...
Oh, and by the way. Who is the morning star?
Can anybody answer this question?
Click to expand...
Nobody is the morning star.
Persons are persons, the Morning star is a planet.
The Morning Star is the Second Planet from the Sun
(the earth is the third) when it rises before the Sun.
It is called the Evening Star when it follows the Sun
as they both set. It is called the Day Star becasue at times
you can see that planet shining in the sky.

Look up similie and metaphor at this location:

http://www.godstruthfortoday.org/Library/bullinger/FiguresOfSpeech.html#omission

Isaiah 14:12 (NIV):
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star,
son of the dawn! You have been cast down
to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

The NIV Bible compares the King of Babylon to the Morning
Star - it is a simile. Some say the image is also applicable
to Satan, the accuser, AKA: ol' mealy mouth, Father of Lies, etc.

Revelation 22:16 (NIV):
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this
testimony for the churches. I am the Root
and the Offspring of David,
and the bright Morning Star."

The NIV Bible compares the Messiah Jesus to the Morning
Star - it is a simile

As with all similes the simileis only applicable to
certain, specified, application.
Satan is the false Morning Star; Jesus is the true Morning Star.
The NIV is trustworthy.

What about the KJV?

Isa 14:12 (KJV1611 Edition):
How art thou fallen from heauen, ||O Lucifer,
sonne of the morning? how art thou cut downe to the ground,
which didst weaken the nations?

Translator Sidenote:
||Or, O daystarre.

The original KJV clearly denotes that the Translators knew
that the Second Planet from the Sun was literally
spoken of (and that the King of Bablyon was being figuratively
/as a similie/ spoken of).

Unfortunately some who misunderstand the 'similie', believe that
the name of Satan is (some 'was') 'Lucifer'.
But this is building part of one's doctrine on one
and only one verse, sadly, a misunderstanding of one
and only one verse.
The KJV is Trustworthy, some folks reading of the KJV
is NOT trustworthy :(
 
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E

ex-nihilo

New Member
The link had nothing to do with my statement
that the KJVO Movement is a subset of the New Age Movement.
Click to expand...


My mistake....I'll try again. I don't see where you have provided any evidence that the KJVO movement is part of the New Age Movement whether that be within your posts you have submitted here or with links that you have provided.

J.
 
A

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
ex-nihilo said:
My mistake....I'll try again. I don't see where you have provided any evidence that the KJVO movement is part of the New Age Movement whether that be within your posts you have submitted here or with links that you have provided.

J.
Click to expand...

Well, I think what he's saying is, from that list he had of new age evidences, number 5 (I think it was) said "create own reality". The fact that the KJVO belief is not based in fact, and many of the arguments are great stretches, he's saying that they are creating their own reality - their own truth. In doing so, it is similar to the New Age movement.
 
E

Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
I already posted this in the thread of Bible Versions but someone may have not noticed it, and so I post it here.


I prefer KJV to any other versions and use it as the main Bible for my study and daily readings. It doesn't mean that I don't read any other Bibles. I was saved while I was reading one of the modern Bibles like NIV.
The main reasons for choosing KJV as the main text are :

1) I believe the Underlying Basic Texts for KJV are better and more accurate than others for modern versions, which means Masoretic Text and Textus Receptus have preserved the Words of God in the best manner.
Nothing in the world takes place without the will of God or the indirect providence of God. The inspiration for the translation may be far less than the inspiration for Bible writers, but the Holy Spirit still worked there as He helps us every day.
Regardless of any argument, I trust Erasmus and his work more than Westcott and Hort and their work.

2. I get much more spiritual understandings which I can apply to my life, from KJV than from other Bibles.

When I read Acts 9:5-6, we notice " it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks, and he TREMBLING and ASTONISHED said what will thou have me to do?" in KJV, which is not found in MV's. I was deeply thrilled to find the reaction by a sinner to the Words of God.
I would ask many people whether they had this kind of experience.

When I read Colossians 1:14 in KJV, we read " In whom we have the redemptiobn through His blood" Modern Bible says simply,
" In whom we have the redemption"
I don't say that Modern Bibles say we obtained the redemption without His blood. But His blood is too precious and important to be omitted and it conforms to all the other Bible statement.

When I read Ephesians 3:9,
"mystery which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ"
The Creator-ship of Jesus Christ is clearer here in KJV than in Modern Versions which omits "by or thru Jesus Christ". In this case more than 500 manuscripts support KJV while only a few support MV's.

3. As for NKJV, I would say it is far, far better than any other Modern Versions/Translations. It is basically based on the same texts as KJV, but modified reflecting Septuagint and many revisions. I have not counted all the verses that altered from KJV, but heard that it modified KJV in about 1700 verses.
I personally made some study on hundreds of verses and shortly want to show you some.
Acts 12:4 - KJV states Easter, NKJV states Passover. I know there are lots of controversy about which is correct and we dealt with this issue separately in other thread some time ago. P Jensen made a lot of study in his Cosmologie der Babylonie about the customs of worshipping Ishtar, goddess of Middle East which was actually Astatrte or Ashera.
Hebrew word Pesach or Greek Paska were used for this Ishtar festival which was just few days later than Passover-Pesach.
Otherwise we cannot understand why Acts 12:3-4 say that it was already Days of Unleavened Bread and Heroth wanted to hand over Peter after Passover, because Passover must have passed if it was already Day of Unleavened Bread since Passove was the first day of Day of ULB.
NKJV or any other modern versions don't give this much doctrinal lessons while KJV do.
One may not agree with my explanation about Ishtar(Easter) festival, but one thing no one can deny is that NKJV is not the same as KJV in this regard.

Recently I had a debate about who pulled up Joseph from the pit and sold to Ishmeelites in Genesis 37:28.
KJV states "there passed by Midianites and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver"
NIV and NKJV say " his brethren"
Problem is that there is no word for his brethren or Brethren in the sentence of the original language Hebrew. Both versions NIV and NKJV added the words which do not exist in the original Bible.
Now the question is who are they?
NIV, NKJV may have thought that Midianites were the same as Ishmeelites as we read Gen 37:36 saying Midianites sold him to Egypt.
Jews know the history and they know Midianites were totally different from Ishmeelites which were part of Egyptians. Moreover, Joseph's own confession is very much important.
" I was stolen away out of land of Hebrews" (Gen 40:15) Why does he say so? 37:29 say Reuben returned to the pit and found Joseph nowhere there. If his brethren sold Joseph, why didn't Reuben know about it?
I have made a lot of study on this matter. If you want to have it, PM me. It is about 500KB.

KJV gives a good spiritual lessosn in so many verses, while other versions are like simple story telling novels.

4. There is an apparent problem with KJV due to the inconvenience of the language and I believe it shows the laziness of our generation, but the spiritual advantage excels the inconvenience of language update problem. Actually nothing comes without pain, especially in the field of spiritual matters.
But if children or any foreigners with limited English skills have problems with KJV archaic language, I would recommend NKJV.

This is my view and I don't force anyone, but I am sure that I will not regret about my choice at any time, even at the Seat of the Judgment.
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I don't think God has graciously provided us with the translations of
Watch Tower Bible ( Jehovah's Witness) and Mormon's Bible.
There are some limits and the degree of accuracy.
I told you that I wasn't born again by reading KJV.
Please try to compare between KJV and others in here:

1) Daniel 9:26
2) Isaiah 53:10
3) Acts 8:37
What was the answer by Philip when you read MV's?
Did Philip answered by action and by silence?
Could anyone defend Infants Baptism by admitting Acts 8:37 is the part of genuine Bible?

There are hundreds more.
Show me any verse where KJV is wrong spiritually and MV's show more spiritual lessons!
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C

Claudia_T

New Member
I think the example of the Morning Star is kinda silly. I dont think there is anything wrong with that in the NIV personally


I also think its goofy and unfair to try to equate the King James Only movement with the New Age Movement


I wish I knew what "MV" means though.
 
X

xdisciplex

New Member
Did Erasmus base his translation only on a few texts which could have been manipulated and added to and later on the TR was made from Erasmus' text? What if church authorities indeed added to the bible? :(

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Due to the errors in the Hebrew and Greek texts from which the KJV were translated, the KJV contains some texts that are not consistent with Jesus' genuine teachings and other genuine New Testament teachings, as represented in the earliest Greek texts of the New Testament. For example:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](1) In Matthew 19:29 and Mark 10:29, the earliest and best available Greek manuscripts conclusively show that the words "or wife" (Greek: e gunaika, Strong's: #2228 and #1135) were not in the original Greek text and are contrary to Jesus' consistent, genuine teachings about marriage. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] (2) In Matthew 5:22, "without a cause" (Greek: eike, Strong's: #1500) was not in the original Greek text of Matthew. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](3) In some cases whole verses or large parts of verses, such as 1 John 5:7-8 (as noted above), were added at the behest of church authorities who, according to some very reputable scholars, presented to Erasmus forged manuscripts in order to include texts that justified their teachings. [/FONT]
 
R

rbell

Active Member
xdx, why aren't you posting references to this? Did you come up with this yourself? Why have you stopped quoting your sources?

Especially if you're gonna post the more inflammatory stuff, the least you can do is cite your works...
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
annsni said:
Well, I think what he's saying is, from that list he had of new age evidences, number 5 (I think it was) said "create own reality". The fact that the KJVO belief is not based in fact, and many of the arguments are great stretches, he's saying that they are creating their own reality - their own truth. In doing so, it is similar to the New Age movement.
Click to expand...
Thank you Sister Annsni. You said in a few sentences what I was
trying to say in a huge essay.

I have this problem :(people ask me what time it is and I tell
them how to build a clock and the history of clock building with
opinons of various ways to build clocks.
 
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E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
xdisciplex said:
Isn't this interesting? Do you know that the "NIV guys" also bring out the satanic bible? Very trustworthy, indeed. :thumbsup:

http://truthinheart.com/Zondervan.htm
Click to expand...
And by the same logic, my copy of the NIV I ordered from
Amazon came in the same package handling organixation
that delivers porn. While true, it proves nothing.
BTW, I bought my last KJV1873 Edition from the same vendor.
So the same publisher that publishes the KJV also publsihed
the Satanic Bible.

Your statement exposts a mile wide DOUBLE STANDARD.
The DOUBLE STANDARD is whre
you judge the KJVs by one standard and you judge the NIV
by a second standard. Sorry, that isn't good logic and doesn't
prove anything.

You can trust the NIV with the fate of your Eternal Soul.
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Eliyahu said:
...
Show me any verse where KJV is wrong spiritually and MV's show more spiritual lessons!
Click to expand...
Even though you aren't a Baptist, you participate
in the Bible Versions/Translations Forum at:

http://www.baptistboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13

In that location we are providing the data you request.
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Claudia_T said:
that doesnt matter about the Satanic Bible either
Click to expand...

Your are RIGHT ON there Sister Claudia.

Personally I've been defeating these lame KJVO arguments
for four years over at the Baptist debate place called:
"Bible Versions/Translations" at:

http://www.baptistboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13

While non-Baptists aren't invited to debate there, they
can read there.

I could (and doubtless will, if this topic goes to a second volume)
list the valid arguments of the KJV's superiority over the
NIV on one hand of a Walt Disney character.

As our Sister Claudia has pointed out (among other lame
arguments), the Satanic Bible is a
lousy and incorrect argument.

You can Trust the the NIV with your Children's Eternal Souls.
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Eliyahu: //But if children or any foreigners with limited English skills have problems with KJV archaic language, I would recommend NKJV.//

After 12 years studying from the NIV I also went to the
nKJV (new King James Version, 1979). The nKJV
majors on the same sources the
translator of the KJV1611 used (while documenting
major parts of sources not available to the KJV Translators.
So that is a good choice for new Christians or those to
whom you are witnessing.

For international (i.e. not in the United Kingdom, Canada,
USofA, or Austriala) English users, the NIV is still the
best, most reliable, most understandable,
MOST TRUSTWORTHY version.
 
C

Claudia_T

New Member
These changes kinda bother me though:


KJV: "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:16).
NIV: "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed." (James 5:16).


KJV: "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." (Matthew 6:7).
NIV: "And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words." (Matthew 6:7).

I was just looking in Google on websites showing bible changes in the NIV and to me there are lots more verses the NIV bible changes that seem more bothersome, in my opinion than the stuff that xdisciplex has been giving.
 
E

ex-nihilo

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by annsni
Well, I think what he's saying is, from that list he had of new age evidences, number 5 (I think it was) said "create own reality". The fact that the KJVO belief is not based in fact, and many of the arguments are great stretches, he's saying that they are creating their own reality - their own truth. In doing so, it is similar to the New Age movement.




Ed Edwards said:
Thank you Sister Annsni. You said in a few sentences what I was
trying to say in a huge essay.

I have this problem :(people ask me what time it is and I tell
them how to build a clock and the history of clock building with
opinons of various ways to build clocks.
Click to expand...

Ed stated that the KJVO movement IS part of the New Age Movement. I asked what the evidence was for that statement and I have yet to see it. It seems you are doing the very thing you are complaining about regarding people making statements about verses being removed from the NIV without presenting the evidence.

Sorry, but there is a big difference between someone stating that something IS and someone stating that something is similiar as indicated above.

J.
 
A

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ed Edwards said:
Thank you Sister Annsni. You said in a few sentences what I was
trying to say in a huge essay.

I have this problem :(people ask me what time it is and I tell
them how to build a clock and the history of clock building with
opinons of various ways to build clocks.
Click to expand...

No problem - I have 2 little ones who I need to explain things in simple ways. LOL!
 
E

ex-nihilo

New Member
I needed a reminder why I refrained from contributing on this board. And on that note, carry on without me..... I'm done here.

J.
 
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