You may be teaching Justification by the Law !

[savedbymercy]

Evasion, and rabbit trail...

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Thats you !

 

[savedbymercy]

Justified freely by His Grace !

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Many calling themselves believers or christians do make a claim to believe this Truth of " Justification freely by the Grace of God" , but its my privilege to tell ya that they really dont believe it at all ! No they only pretend to in words, but if we examine their Testimony 1 Jn 4:1;Matt 7:20 it is finally discovered that their supposed Justification by Grace freely, in reality is Justification because of their act of faith or belief, but sorry that doesn't qualify to being freely Justified by His Grace !

The word freely is very important here in this solemn declaration of truth, its the word dorean and means :

as a free gift, without payment, freely,something freely done (as gratis), i.e. without "cause"; unearned (undeserved); freely given (without cost) hence not done out of mere obligation or compulsion.

for naught

Now Listen, it cannot be truly freely , without cause, for naught if indeed my act of believing or faith is the real cause, and that is why those who are not Justified remain so, because they did not meet the qualification of exercising faith or belief; So hence, its either freely without cause or its not, cannot straddle the fence here !

Yet Paul explains why its without cause and by Grace, why its a Gift reckoned upon the Justified ones based solely the Redemption that is by Christ's Blood [being Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9]; They were Justified freely by His Grace as a Gift, because Christ's Redemptive Death freed them from the penalty of their sins ! Redemption does that. Lets look at Heb 9:12 to prove this vital point :

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The word redemption here, the greek word lutrósis :

(in the Old Testament: ransoming from imprisonment for debt, or from slavery, release from national misfortune, etc.), liberation, deliverance, release. redemption from the penalty of sin:

Yes Redemption from the penalty of sin, equates to Justification from all sin, and that freely solely by the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Blood Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This verse says the very exact thing as does Rom 3:24 only here forgiveness of sins equals Justification, Justification from the penalty of our sins and forgiveness of them are the same, and is according to the Riches of God's Grace !

All this is True because He, the Lord Jesus Christ, by His Blood shedding Death for them, satisfied all of God's vengeful Law and Justice He rightly had against all their sins against Him, So it was no cause or condition in them that influenced God to Justify them freely by His Grace, the cause was solely in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ in their stead.

So lastly again, if we say that we believe in being Justified freely by His Grace, and yet at the same time make our act of faith to be the condition and cause why God Justified us, them we do lie and believe not the Truth, we don't believe the Truth of being Justified freely by His Grace as presented in Rom 3:24 or Titus 3:7 for that matter where it reads Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[savedbymercy]

Justified by His Blood !

Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This Truth is denied continually by all those who insist that mans Faith is the condition he must perform in order to be Justifed before God and by God, which totally disregards the Precious Truth of having been Justified before God solelt by the Blood of Christ, or the Death of Christ, as its clearly stated here.

In fact Rom 5:9 here is the same exact Truth Paul taught earlier in Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption [by blood] that is in Christ Jesus !

Because of the Redemption that is in His Blood, which added is by Grace and that freely without no conditions, no cause in us !

In fact its a True Fact even while the redeemed ones are still being enemies Rom 5:10,19 !

Faith in Christ is not required to be Justified before God by the Blood of Christ ! The Only Faith that was required for complete that Transaction before God, was Christ's Faith or Faithfulness, His Obedience unto the Death !

 

[plain_n_simple]

So much for Jesus being the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our Faith.

 

[Don]

So much for Jesus being the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our Faith.

Actually, she's saying Jesus is the author and finisher of ALL faith.

 

[savedbymercy]

So much for Jesus being the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our Faith.

Evasion and Rabbit trail away from the points I made with scripture !

 

[PreachTony]

Evasion and Rabbit trail away from the points I made with scripture !

That's the problem, savedbymercy. You quote scripture to make a point. Every time we come back at you with scripture to make our point, you accuse our use of scripture as "Evasion and Rabbit Trail."

Several times over members of this forum had supplied you with scripture to refute your points. If you were indeed looking for discussion and debate, you would answer these points, as we have answered you. Instead, you accuse us of evading you because we don't go point-by-point or answer your asinine "YES or NO" questions.

Just admit it, no argument we make is ever going to be good enough for you. You would rather we just blindly support your erroneous interpretation of scripture and go along with your horrifying misapplication of doctrine, wouldn't you?

 

[savedbymercy]

Posts 182 and 183 have both made points that no one is able to prove wrong, just make evasive rabbit trail comments away from the points !

 

[savedbymercy]

It would be helpful if you cross checked the scripture you quote against translations other than the KJV. Nearly all of them (perhaps every one) say "faithfulness" rather than "faith" like the KJV does. So no, faith is not a work of the law.

Yeah, Faith is a work of the Law that ought to have been done ! Matt 23:23 !

 

[BobRyan]

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

What is your view today ?

My view is "you are justified by faith" Eph 2. Which Paul says is not a claim that the lost are saved by the works of the law. So your wild claim that "faith is the works of the law" is of course - never found in scripture.

"Having been justified by faith we have peace with God" Rom 5:1

And no matter how you spin/bend/wrench that -- it is not salvation by works.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

According to Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Is Faith something of the weightier matters of the LAW that ought to be DONE ? Yes or No ?

Sadly for you "mercy and faith" are never called "works of the Law" by anyone in the NT.

That they are in harmony with the Law is not a surprise - but when Paul condemns "Works of the Law" he never condemns faith or mercy nor calls them "works of the Law".

He says that about tithing, he says it about circumcision -- but never about faith or mercy. The lost cannot "tithe their way to salvation" neither can they "opt-in" to salvation by joining the Jewish nation. But though a lost person have mercy - that mercy is not condemned.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Don]

Yeah, Faith is a work of the Law that ought to have been done ! Matt 23:23 !

Yes and no. No, faith is not a work of the law. Yes, faith is something that the pharisees ought to have done.

In fact, folks, and I don't know why it took me this long to figure out how to refute her, SBM shot herself in the foot by using this verse. You see, SBM has been using this verse to justify her interpretation of "faith is a work of the law"; when the verse is actually Jesus telling the hypocritical pharisees that they need to place their hope of salvation in mercy and faith, rather than their tithes and offerings. Their tithes of mint and cumin wouldn't earn or buy their place in heaven; only faith (or as the same passage in Luke puts it, love of God) and God's mercy.

The very meaning of what's being said and why negates SBM's conclusion.

We could go further and talk about faith being a feminine/passive word; but do we need to?

Sad part is, she's got me on ignore, so I won't get the usual "rabbit trail and evasion" or "faith is too a work of the law that ought to have been done!" responses.

 

[InTheLight]

Yes and no. No, faith is not a work of the law. Yes, faith is something that the pharisees ought to have done.

In fact, folks, and I don't know why it took me this long to figure out how to refute her, SBM shot herself in the foot by using this verse. You see, SBM has been using this verse to justify her interpretation of "faith is a work of the law"; when the verse is actually Jesus telling the hypocritical pharisees that they need to place their hope of salvation in mercy and faith, rather than their tithes and offerings. Their tithes of mint and cumin wouldn't earn or buy their place in heaven; only faith (or as the same passage in Luke puts it, love of God) and God's mercy.

The very meaning of what's being said and why negates SBM's conclusion.

That's a nice take on it.

Sad part is, she's got me on ignore, so I won't get the usual "rabbit trail and evasion" or "faith is too a work of the law that ought to have been done!" responses.

It will be seen now.

 

[PreachTony]

Yes and no. No, faith is not a work of the law. Yes, faith is something that the pharisees ought to have done.

In fact, folks, and I don't know why it took me this long to figure out how to refute her, SBM shot herself in the foot by using this verse. You see, SBM has been using this verse to justify her interpretation of "faith is a work of the law"; when the verse is actually Jesus telling the hypocritical pharisees that they need to place their hope of salvation in mercy and faith, rather than their tithes and offerings. Their tithes of mint and cumin wouldn't earn or buy their place in heaven; only faith (or as the same passage in Luke puts it, love of God) and God's mercy.

The very meaning of what's being said and why negates SBM's conclusion.

We could go further and talk about faith being a feminine/passive word; but do we need to?

Sad part is, she's got me on ignore, so I won't get the usual "rabbit trail and evasion" or "faith is too a work of the law that ought to have been done!" responses.

SBM has made it clear that he's a man. How we all got off on the trail of thinking SBM was a she, I'm not sure. I know someone referred to him as "her/she" and was not refuted, so I even went with it for a time.

That said, we've been pushing for a while now to show SBM the error of his doctrine and we are all soundly accused of evasion. Even when we answer with scripture, we are told to stop evading his use of scripture. It's becoming more and more obvious that SBM does not seek discussion or debate, but rather just wants everyone to agree with his take on the scripture. It's okay for him to ignore how the scripture is worded, because his ignoring the wording allows him to apply whatever meaning his little heart desires to the scripture, hence we ended up with "faith is a work" and "the gospel is permanently hidden to the lost" and "people are born already saved or already damned."

 

[Yeshua1]

Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This Truth is denied continually by all those who insist that mans Faith is the condition he must perform in order to be Justifed before God and by God, which totally disregards the Precious Truth of having been Justified before God solelt by the Blood of Christ, or the Death of Christ, as its clearly stated here.

In fact Rom 5:9 here is the same exact Truth Paul taught earlier in Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption [by blood] that is in Christ Jesus !

Because of the Redemption that is in His Blood, which added is by Grace and that freely without no conditions, no cause in us !

In fact its a True Fact even while the redeemed ones are still being enemies Rom 5:10,19 !

Faith in Christ is not required to be Justified before God by the Blood of Christ ! The Only Faith that was required for complete that Transaction before God, was Christ's Faith or Faithfulness, His Obedience unto the Death !

Did jesus and any of His Apostles teach to us that we were already all right to God, or that we MUST receive Jesus thru faith to get saved?

 

[savedbymercy]

You may be teaching Justification by the Law ! 4

I'm going to subtitle this :

Gal 3:10

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Lets make no mistake about it, anyone claiming to be saved and or Justified before God based upon their faith, or their act of believing, you very well may be under the curse of the Law, simply because, faith whether you believe it or not, is a work of the Law Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Faith Jesus says to these religionists, is one of the more weightier matters of the Law THAT OUGHT YE HAVE DONE !

John Gill on this verse and the word Faith in this context writes:

"Faith" may not only design faithfulness in a man's keeping his word and promise, and fidelity to a trust reposed in him; but also faith in God, as the God of providence, and as the God of grace and mercy; believing in his word and promises, and worshipping him, which the law requires; and the rather this seems to be intended, because Luke, instead of "faith", puts "the love of God", which faith includes, and works by, and is the end of the commandment, arising from faith unfeigned: so that Christ instances in the weightier matters of both tables of the law, which these men neglected, and the latter, as well as the former; not believing the revelation of the Gospel, nor the Messiah, who was promised, and prophesied of by God, in the writings of the Old Testament:

The Purpose of the Law was to be a Schoolmaster to Faith in Christ, yeah even under the Mosaic Administration Gal 3:24

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

So, now if we believe that our act of Faith in Christ is the reason why God Justified us, we are claiming that God Justified me because I obeyed the Law, did that which I ought to have done !

And once our thinking is there, we fall into the ripe condition of our text Gal 3:10

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

That means if we are under the impression that by doing Faith, a work of the Law, is the basis why God saved or Justified me, we are then obligated to continue to be in obedience to the Law perfectly, if we are to saved from the penalty of our sins, and one false move to complete obedience to the Law, in act, thoughts, or speech disqualifies us from Eternal Life, and must be Eternally Cursed as these Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

That word cursed here is the same word in Gal 3:10 ! So they are cursed for not keeping God's Law as they ought to have done ! And so are we if we continue in the thinking that , God Justifies me because of my act of Faith or Believing, which i ought to have done !

 

[plain_n_simple]

Mercy must also be a work of the law according to your understanding?

 

[savedbymercy]

Mercy must also be a work of the law according to your understanding?

Whatever Jesus says in Matt 23:23 is one of the weightier matters of the Law that ought to be DONE is a work of the Law that ought to be done. Is Mercy included in that statement ? Yes or No ? Here it is Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So Thats my answer buddy, its what Jesus said !

 

[PreachTony]

Whatever Jesus says in Matt 23:23 is one of the weightier matters of the Law that ought to be DONE is a work of the Law that ought to be done. Is Mercy included in that statement ? Yes or No ? Here it is Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So Thats my answer buddy, its what Jesus said !

I wrote this to you in another thread where you've used that verse. Please consider:

Let's break it down, SBM.
Jesus begins the verse by saying the Pharisees are hypocrites. Why? Because they pay tithes essentially in pride. He then says your most mis-applied part of the verse:
"and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith:"
Consider how that is written. If "judgment, mercy, and faith" were actually the weightier matters of the law, the scripture would appear thus:
"and have omitted the weightier matters of the law : judgment, mercy, and faith:"
But it doesn't. One way to consider this verse, SBM, is to look at it as though Jesus is saying "and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, [the weightier matters of] judgment, [the weightier matters of] mercy, and [the weightier matters of] faith:"
The phrase "weightier matters" applies to all four things Jesus mentions. It is not a means of including judgment, mercy, and faith as works of the law.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Whatever Jesus says in Matt 23:23 is one of the weightier matters of the Law that ought to be DONE is a work of the Law that ought to be done. Is Mercy included in that statement ? Yes or No ? Here it is Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So Thats my answer buddy, its what Jesus said !

This verse means: weightier matters of the law
weightier matters of judgement
weightier matters of mercy
weightier matters of faith
It cannot mean faith is a matter of the law, faith is stopped by the law, is in opposition to the law, Galatians, Romans, Hebrews tell us this.
Nowhere in the bible does it say this except if you strive to make it say such