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You must hear this... thoughts please.
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
- Start date
Tali...
... He's trying to split off some Southern Baptists (the "narrow gate") into "Lordship Salvation." Trying to get em lost so they can be saved by works (the "narrow path").
It is interesting that "Lordship" Reformers end up just like their Catholic predecessors. Only their "sacraments" distinguish the 2.
1) Both start with a regeneration you mostly do nothing about --- Catholicism starts with infant baptismal regeneration, Reform starts with "passive," monergistic regeneration not attributable to any act on our part.
2) Then both require works to "prove" the effecaciousness of initial salvation/regeneration -- Catholics through sacraments, Reform through certain biblical, NT behaviors.
To me, it's just Augustinianism come round full circle.
skypair
... He's trying to split off some Southern Baptists (the "narrow gate") into "Lordship Salvation." Trying to get em lost so they can be saved by works (the "narrow path").
It is interesting that "Lordship" Reformers end up just like their Catholic predecessors. Only their "sacraments" distinguish the 2.
1) Both start with a regeneration you mostly do nothing about --- Catholicism starts with infant baptismal regeneration, Reform starts with "passive," monergistic regeneration not attributable to any act on our part.
2) Then both require works to "prove" the effecaciousness of initial salvation/regeneration -- Catholics through sacraments, Reform through certain biblical, NT behaviors.
To me, it's just Augustinianism come round full circle.
skypair
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This was posted several months ago here, and I listened to it. I believe Washer is sincere and cares about people very much.
But he is too legalistic in his theology. He needs to dig into the scriptures that speak of our freedom in Christ, and our justification being through through faith alone.
God certainly wants us to live consistantly with who we are in Christ, but only from the perspective of our complete security, and never based on fear.
These are the New Covenant truths that our standing before God is based upon.
Mike
But he is too legalistic in his theology. He needs to dig into the scriptures that speak of our freedom in Christ, and our justification being through through faith alone.
God certainly wants us to live consistantly with who we are in Christ, but only from the perspective of our complete security, and never based on fear.
These are the New Covenant truths that our standing before God is based upon.
Mike
xdisciplex
New Member
I can't open the link but is this a Paul Washer video?
I have heard and see stuff from him before and some of it is pretty scary. He can easily make you doubt your salvation.
In 1 sermon Washer said he can tell wether you're saved or not by going in your room and looking at what you have there.
And then this whole "you can't get saved when you accept Jesus only as savior" stuff. This is scary, because then everybody can ask himself if he's really saved and if he has really made Jesus Lord enough. What if he's not enough Lord? Then you can forget it.
I have heard and see stuff from him before and some of it is pretty scary. He can easily make you doubt your salvation.
In 1 sermon Washer said he can tell wether you're saved or not by going in your room and looking at what you have there.
And then this whole "you can't get saved when you accept Jesus only as savior" stuff. This is scary, because then everybody can ask himself if he's really saved and if he has really made Jesus Lord enough. What if he's not enough Lord? Then you can forget it.
TaliOrlando
New Member
xdisciplex said:I can't open the link but is this a Paul Washer video?
I have heard and see stuff from him before and some of it is pretty scary. He can easily make you doubt your salvation.
In 1 sermon Washer said he can tell wether you're saved or not by going in your room and looking at what you have there.
And then this whole "you can't get saved when you accept Jesus only as savior" stuff. This is scary, because then everybody can ask himself if he's really saved and if he has really made Jesus Lord enough. What if he's not enough Lord? Then you can forget it.
Well, thats not what he is saying. Let me give you an example. Let's say I am overweight, and someone says you need to get on a diet because if not you might get ill. Then I say ok, and the Doctor says repeat after me: " I accept this diet and I will promise to live for you Diet and continue to walk in you and live for you. You and only you Diet can save me from this obesity"
Well, I can say that until I am blue. However, if I am not doing it from the heart. I just wasted my time and fooled my self. See, many accept Jesus and continue to live their lives as if nothing. They use grace as a license to sin and they are only fooling himself. When one truly gives his life to Christ there is a change in that person and he will have a true hunger for Christ and to become transparent so that when people look at you brother they want what you have and what do we have JESUS. Thats all he is saying... and nothing else. You dont hear this at many churches now and days though. Its mostly all sugar coated gospel. Sin all you want and just because you prayed the prayer of salvation you are ok. That is a lie of the Devil, a true person who has prayed the prayer of salvation from the heart has a change within him and that change is that Jesus is now a part of him. He will try his best to avoid sinning, its impossible because we all sin but we must try our best to continue to be holy for Christ. Even when we do sin, we must simply ask God for forgiveness and repent. God is our father and wants whats best for us. Its like me and my daughter, sometimes she does whats not correct and correct her. She understands that he actions were not correct and apologizes and repents for her actions and continues on. See its about having a personal relationship with Christ.
Its about giving our best, Able gave his best to God and thats what God wants from us. Our Best, every single day. To do right thing in private and God will bless you in public. Praise God... we are saved my Brother. Dont doubt it, just enjoy it and continue to seek Christ.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
There are those in the Baptist church that do not fall for the error of OSAS - they would certainly see the wisdom of Christ's Words in Matt 18 regarding "Foregiveness revoked" or in the words of Matt 7 regarding the narrow way.
There are thos who DO fall for the error of OSAS but who ALSO accept the Bible truth regarding the doctrine of perseverance and "holding firm" (as Paul states in Col 1) - They TOO would be inclined to accept Christ's words in Matt 7 regarding the need of obedience and perseverance and following the "narrow way".
How then is this "news" ??
Only 4 point calvinists who reject the Bible teaching on Pereverance and those Arminians that join them in doing that - in their beliefs in OSAS would find this teaching in Matt 7 to be a problem...
This is what I gather from the comments made so far
What am I missing?
in Christ,
Bob
There are thos who DO fall for the error of OSAS but who ALSO accept the Bible truth regarding the doctrine of perseverance and "holding firm" (as Paul states in Col 1) - They TOO would be inclined to accept Christ's words in Matt 7 regarding the need of obedience and perseverance and following the "narrow way".
How then is this "news" ??
Only 4 point calvinists who reject the Bible teaching on Pereverance and those Arminians that join them in doing that - in their beliefs in OSAS would find this teaching in Matt 7 to be a problem...
This is what I gather from the comments made so far
What am I missing?
in Christ,
Bob
xdisciplex
New Member
I agree, that you have to see a change in people which are saved but then again what about christians which do not show enough change according to Washer?
How can he determine who is saved and who isn't and who's only having a bad time?
How can he determine who is saved and who isn't and who's only having a bad time?
xdx,xdisciplex said:
You don't have to answer to Washer - You have to answer to Christ.
If the creator of universe has taken up residence within someone (which happens at salvation), He will bring about change that pleases Christ. It may take a little longer in some, but it will happen.
xdisciplex
New Member
But what if you're not making any more progress? Is it up to us to basically keep us making progress and if we fail and trip on the spot then we're at danger of being removed because we bear no fruit?
TaliOrlando
New Member
xdisciplex said:
xdiciplex, if you werent bearing any fruit you wouldnt be here seeking God's True Gospel. There is something in you brother that is awesome and thats Jesus. We must answer to Jesus but sometimes xdiciplex we need preachings like these to get us back on track and get us to understand whats really importance in life.
If you see that in your life there are things that might needed a little bit changing, then ask God to help you in those areas. Ask God with an open heart to come in and change those things that need to be changed. The Holy Spirit will guide you and you will see brother that with Christ all things are possible. It takes time...
When I first started in Christ my vocabulary was pretty rush and a couple of curse words came out and very often to be honest. I just gave that aspect of my life to Christ and from there on everytime I sinned the Holy Spirit would correct me and I just felt a thug in my spirit and little by little he has correct that aspect of my life. Its about giving your best.... my best was cursing less and seeking him more.. that mean that if i cursed 30 times yesterday, today my goal was to curse 29 times and little by little.. when we least expect it we are living a life that is transparent. My primary language is Spanish so I might not have wroted in the best way I wanted to explain it but I did my best. lol :laugh:
xdisciplex
New Member
Hi Tali,
but the thing is that most of the time I feel bad about myself and I can't tell if this is just me feeling bad about myself for whatever reason or if this because it's true and I'm really as bad as I think I am and then God might feel the same way about me as I do. If I only knew what God thinks but I don't. This drives me insane sometimes.
but the thing is that most of the time I feel bad about myself and I can't tell if this is just me feeling bad about myself for whatever reason or if this because it's true and I'm really as bad as I think I am and then God might feel the same way about me as I do. If I only knew what God thinks but I don't. This drives me insane sometimes.
We all feel that way sometimes. Some folks more than others. If you're are on this board long enough, you will read some post which applies to your sin thus the conclusion must be that you're not saved.
God looks at the heart, only he knows whether you are saved. It's his decision.
Being saved isn't a feeling. Your posts reflect a saved person imo.
God looks at the heart, only he knows whether you are saved. It's his decision.
Being saved isn't a feeling. Your posts reflect a saved person imo.
xdisciplex,
We are not saved by being "good enough", but rather by acknowledging that we can never be good enough, and that we need a savior. We then place our faith in Christ, embracing Him through faith alone.
The thief on the cross:
Christs verdict?
The publican in the temple:
Christs verdict?
Paul:
Fruit follows justification, but it has no part in the attaining of our justification. I get the impression, not just from this thread but other threads of yours as well, that you are spending too much time fretting, and worrying....and not enough time PRAISING, WORSHIPPING, and THANKING Him for what He has done on your behalf.
Luke 12:32...
Would you mind posting a testimony concerning how you were drawn to, and embraced Christ, and how your life changed as a result?
Thanks!
God bless,
Mike
We are not saved by being "good enough", but rather by acknowledging that we can never be good enough, and that we need a savior. We then place our faith in Christ, embracing Him through faith alone.
The thief on the cross:
Christs verdict?
The publican in the temple:
Christs verdict?
Paul:
Fruit follows justification, but it has no part in the attaining of our justification. I get the impression, not just from this thread but other threads of yours as well, that you are spending too much time fretting, and worrying....and not enough time PRAISING, WORSHIPPING, and THANKING Him for what He has done on your behalf.
Luke 12:32...
Would you mind posting a testimony concerning how you were drawn to, and embraced Christ, and how your life changed as a result?
Thanks!
God bless,
Mike
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