Young Punks and Old Codgers

[abcgrad94]

I respect the elderly as a general rule. Many of them have faced more "real life" than we younger people will ever know. I especially have a deep respect for our WWII veterans and their spouses, because they made so many sacrifices that the rest of us take for granted from day to day.

Now on the rare occasion when an elderly person is deliberately hateful (not due to illness or dementia, but just plain old SIN) I won't quietly put up with it.

I think the scriptures posted here aren't just about respecting people simply because they are old. I think it goes deeper than that. We should VALUE all life, especially the aged and helpless, and look out for their protection and well-being in a respectful manner. I would treat the mentally handicapped in the same manner, whether elderly or not.

 

[mcdirector]

I voted show respect. Not all older people are worthy of respect, but I can still act respectful regardless of their behaviors.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Along the line of lip service respect, since Bill Clinton and his shennanigans, respect for the office of POTUS has diminished greatly. But Americans used to say, "Let's respect the office even if we disagree with the man's position. I haven't heard that lately. (But then I'm in Japan, not America. :smilewinkgrin

It doesn't matter that you are in Japan. I haven't heard it much over here either. I think we've had so many presidents in a row that have been so removed politcally from what "we the people" believe that the position itself is losing respect. I haven't voted FOR a presidential candidate yet. I'm too busy voting AGAINST the worst of the worst to be able to vote for the 'best of the best'.

 

[John of Japan]

It doesn't matter that you are in Japan. I haven't heard it much over here either. I think we've had so many presidents in a row that have been so removed politcally from what "we the people" believe that the position itself is losing respect. I haven't voted FOR a presidential candidate yet. I'm too busy voting AGAINST the worst of the worst to be able to vote for the 'best of the best'.

You said a mouthful!

 

[tinytim]

A false doctrine???

Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head, and honour the face of the old man, and fear thy God: I am the LORD. (Leviticus 19:32)

Now Elihu had waited till Job had spoken, because they were elder than he. (Job 32:4)

And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion. (Job 32:6)

The hoary head is a crown of glory, if it be found in the way of righteousness. (Proverbs 16:31)

The glory of young men is their strength: and the beauty of old men is the gray head. (Proverbs 20:29)

Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren; The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity. (1 Timothy 5:1-2)

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant by a false doctrine...

I don't care how old a person is, if they are 15 or 85 and they start preaching salvation by works, (a false doctrine) I'm going to call him on it...

If it is a younger person I would be more bold (like a brother)
If it is a older person, I would treat them as if I was correcting my father of an error.

 

[tinytim]

Tinytim voted that no one deserves respect just because they are old, but he also said that he respects everyone, so I'm not sure what's going on there. Tim, did you check one of the first two as well?

.

No.. what I mean is, that I try to treat EVERYONE with the same respect no matter what age they are.. .

I teach the Senior Citizens' Sunday School class.. and I love it.. they love me... I love them.. And they have told me that one of the reasons they like my teaching is because I don't pamper them just because they are older than me.. .

I treat them with respect and they treat me with respect.. we joke, they treat me as an equal, as I do them. Just today I threatened (jokingly of course) to put an 85 yr old lady in the corner for talking in class out of turn!.. Of course she laughed, adn said, "YOu know what Pastor, you are not to old for me to put you over my lap and whip you!"..

It's that kinda relationship that grows people..
ALL people deserve respect.. EVEN Young people..

It bothers me to hear people talk about how slow and ignorant the Older generation is..

It bothers me to hear people generalize and say, "The young people of today have no respect".. that is just as bad as saying the old people are stupid.

Because I know 3 teen sons.. (MINE) that have respect.. NOT JUST for the elderly.. but for EVERYONE.

As I said before, just because someone is older than others means we should respect them more than others.. that is playing favorites.. and with God there is no favorites. WE are all equal in his eyes.. HE love the teen with a heart for missions as much as he love the senior saint that served in the nursery all her life.. and now is shut in..

Funny story..
Next week I'm going to be starting to pastor a different church. Today was the last Sunday for me here. This afternoon I visited the nursing home.. to visit one of shutins there.. she is 83 yrs old, and is full of spunk. she fell in March and broke her hip, so she is in the long term recovery unit. Her son was there and the nurse came in and was teasing her saying 'aunt polly" was caught running naked in the rain the other day.. (OF course she wasn't) ... her son and i started teasing her, and she just lit up!.. with laughter..

When I prayed for her before I left, I aske God to heal her, and then said, "IF you do, she promises not to chase men while running naked in the rain.".. after I was done.. she said, "Pastor Tim, you lied, I never once promised that!!!".. and we all laughed.. and it was a special time..

Maybe the last time I see her on this Earth again..
Did I respect her more because of her age? NO.. she earned respect by being a great christian lady in our community for many, many yrs... She and her husband would take in traveling missionaries and evangelists...

She earned respect.
And I love that old lady..
I also love the teens that were crying today when they left the church because this was my last Sunday with them..

We are called to respect EVERYONE.

 

[John of Japan]

No.. what I mean is, that I try to treat EVERYONE with the same respect no matter what age they are.. .

I teach the Senior Citizens' Sunday School class.. and I love it.. they love me... I love them.. And they have told me that one of the reasons they like my teaching is because I don't pamper them just because they are older than me.. .

I treat them with respect and they treat me with respect.. we joke, they treat me as an equal, as I do them. Just today I threatened (jokingly of course) to put an 85 yr old lady in the corner for talking in class out of turn!.. Of course she laughed, adn said, "YOu know what Pastor, you are not to old for me to put you over my lap and whip you!"..

It's that kinda relationship that grows people..
ALL people deserve respect.. EVEN Young people..

It bothers me to hear people talk about how slow and ignorant the Older generation is..

It bothers me to hear people generalize and say, "The young people of today have no respect".. that is just as bad as saying the old people are stupid.

Because I know 3 teen sons.. (MINE) that have respect.. NOT JUST for the elderly.. but for EVERYONE.

As I said before, just because someone is older than others means we should respect them more than others.. that is playing favorites.. and with God there is no favorites. WE are all equal in his eyes.. HE love the teen with a heart for missions as much as he love the senior saint that served in the nursery all her life.. and now is shut in..

Funny story..
Next week I'm going to be starting to pastor a different church. Today was the last Sunday for me here. This afternoon I visited the nursing home.. to visit one of shutins there.. she is 83 yrs old, and is full of spunk. she fell in March and broke her hip, so she is in the long term recovery unit. Her son was there and the nurse came in and was teasing her saying 'aunt polly" was caught running naked in the rain the other day.. (OF course she wasn't) ... her son and i started teasing her, and she just lit up!.. with laughter..

When I prayed for her before I left, I aske God to heal her, and then said, "IF you do, she promises not to chase men while running naked in the rain.".. after I was done.. she said, "Pastor Tim, you lied, I never once promised that!!!".. and we all laughed.. and it was a special time..

Maybe the last time I see her on this Earth again..
Did I respect her more because of her age? NO.. she earned respect by being a great christian lady in our community for many, many yrs... She and her husband would take in traveling missionaries and evangelists...

She earned respect.
And I love that old lady..
I also love the teens that were crying today when they left the church because this was my last Sunday with them..

We are called to respect EVERYONE.

Very good post. And I agree that we should respect everyone. But it seems like then you could have very easily voted the #2 option on the poll as well as the other.

 

[David Lamb]

Disrespect (whether of elderly people, or of people in general) sadly seems common here in the UK. I know you were asking about America, but I hope you won't mind me answering from the "other side of the pond".

Of course, the details of how respect is to be shown will vary from country to country. For example, I think I am correct in saying that in America, a teenager, particularly a boy boy, shows respect by addressing his father as "sir". However respectful they are, teenage boys here do not address their fathers in that way.

 

[tinytim]

Very good post. And I agree that we should respect everyone. But it seems like then you could have very easily voted the #2 option on the poll as well as the other.

Yes.. I could have.. duh!.. when i first read 1 and 2, I didn't see much difference, now I do ... I"M SLOW>>>> PLEASE FORGIVE THIS YOUNG HOODLUM!.. :laugh:

 

[John of Japan]

Yes.. I could have.. duh!.. when i first read 1 and 2, I didn't see much difference, now I do ... I"M SLOW>>>> PLEASE FORGIVE THIS YOUNG HOODLUM!.. :laugh:

Only if you'll get a Japanese tattoo! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[John of Japan]

Disrespect (whether of elderly people, or of people in general) sadly seems common here in the UK. I know you were asking about America, but I hope you won't mind me answering from the "other side of the pond".

Thanks for the input, David. So maybe it's a world wide phenomenon. In Japan, in my opinion, it started when the parents and schools abandoned corporal discipline. In both the USA and Japan nowadays, discipline seems to consist of just talking.

Of course, the details of how respect is to be shown will vary from country to country. For example, I think I am correct in saying that in America, a teenager, particularly a boy boy, shows respect by addressing his father as "sir". However respectful they are, teenage boys here do not address their fathers in that way.

That's interesting. I didn't know that. In the States, though, saying "sir" and "ma'am" seems to be mostly a Southern custom. Maybe someone from the north will correct me.

 

[sag38]

I was taught to show respect for my elders but I was not taught to use "yes sir" and "no mam." My mother was from N. California and they didn't do that there. I'm sure that when we moved to Southern Mississippi that I ruffled a few feathers because I didn't always use proper Southern respect for my elders. When I did it wasn't because my parents taught me too. I just knew that it was the norm for where I lived. So, it is cultural. Folks from the South seem to think that "yes sir" and "no mam" are Biblical. It's not.

A friend of mine moved from South Carolina to Oregon. After a few days of attending public school their daughter brought home a note from the school asking her parents to instruct their daughter to quit addressing teachers with "yes sir and no mam." Some of my friends thought this was horrible and that this little girl would be scared for life when in fact it was simply a clash of traditions. Their daughter was instructed not to use "yes sir" and "no mam" anymore.

 

[John of Japan]

I was taught to show respect for my elders but I was not taught to use "yes sir" and "no mam." My mother was from N. California and they didn't do that there. I'm sure that when we moved to Southern Mississippi that I ruffled a few feathers because I didn't always use proper Southern respect for my elders. When I did it wasn't because my parents taught me too. I just knew that it was the norm for where I lived. So, it is cultural. Folks from the South seem to think that "yes sir" and "no mam" are Biblical. It's not.

Right. Definitely not in the Bible. The attitude and actions are far more important than the words.

A friend of mine moved from South Carolina to Oregon. After a few days of attending public school their daughter brought home a note from the school asking her parents to instruct their daughter to quit addressing teachers with "yes sir and no mam." Some of my friends thought this was horrible and that this little girl would be scared for life when in fact it was simply a clash of traditions. Their daughter was instructed not to use "yes sir" and "no mam" anymore.

I'm sure the little girl did just fine without the words. Really strange that she would have to stop using them, though!

We taught our son proper respect for his elders, and we did teach him to say sir and ma'am. Then we unleashed him on America for college. We learned that Yankees appreciate a respectful attitude too. In a northern Bible college in his second year, I think it was, he worked a campus job and was awarded the student worker of the year award.

 

[David Lamb]

In both the USA and Japan nowadays, discipline seems to consist of just talking.

Same here. Sometimes talking is appropriate, but I think it's wrong to limit discipline to talking in every case.

That's interesting. I didn't know that. In the States, though, saying "sir" and "ma'am" seems to be mostly a Southern custom. Maybe someone from the north will correct me.

Polite people over here still say "sir" and "madam", but I meant particularly the American practice of addressing one's father as "sir".

 

[Jerome]

I think I am correct in saying that in America, a teenager, particularly a boy boy, shows respect by addressing his father as "sir".

That is not typical in America. As others have said, it's just a Southern custom.

 

[nodak]

In our area, it has gone from disrespecting elders to what seems to be hate.

Examples: public political discussions where serious consideration is given to the thought that the savings older folks have accumulated should be taken from them and given to the younger generation to purchase homes. Comments concerning the schools that if it comes to granny eating or johnny having a bus to ride, johnny wins. Comments that enough older workers should be fired each year to accomodate jobs for the new graduates. Comments that older folks in larger homes should be forced to move into smaller ones while still paying the larger mortgage, so younger families can live in the bigger houses while still paying the smaller mortgage.

In churches: comments like "it is time for the older people to realize the younger folks are in control now. They should tithe faithfully but if they don't like how the church does things, just stay home and mail the check."

And here is the irony: in the church situation, it is folks roughly 45-55 saying boot out the older folks and do things "like the young folks want it done." BUT the folks in the 20-40 age range are wanting things done like the older folks want it done.

In our town at least, there seems to be a spirit of rebellion run rampant. Anyone who is in the least bit seen as having any sort of authority or any sort of respect due them is public enemy number one.

There seems here to be a great deal of pain in the younger generation. I think we led them on to believe if they just get that sheepskin they will immediately have a high paying job and all the perks that go with it. Now they find themselves owing huge student loans, jobs have dried up, and they are not getting to suddenly "run the show" as they were led to believe they would.

And they see us over 55 folks as standing in their way, refusing to die off and open up the way for them. I think it may get really a lot worse, as scripture talks about in the last days.

My heart breaks for the younger ones, but I also believe this may discipline from the Lord on all of us. It may be the best thing for our souls for the young ones to have to learn patience, to have to do menial labor, and to have to struggle.

I know it gave my grandparents' and parents' generations more character than my own rebellious one.

 

[Jim1999]

Interesting forum discussion for an older bloke. My father could neither read nor write, he used words he had heard completely out of context, but he was still my father.

Respect follows two paths; respect because of seniority, and respect that is earned in seniority.

Like when officiating a sport, respect is earned by the respect shown to the game (life) and respect shown to the players.

In here, we can respectfully disagree, but often we must learn when to shut up.

Cheers, and bless,

Jim

 

[Arbo]

I'm what could be considered middle-aged. As I grow older, I am discovering a growing appreciation for the teachable moments that come with life's experiences. With this in mind, I think there is something to the adage about wisdom comming with age when referring to seniors.

A small aside- I was blessed to grow up knowing all four of my grandparents, and knowing them well. I was especially close to my maternal Grandpa. He had a fifth (?) grade education, but learned about life first during the Depression and then WWII. Despite his lack of formal education he was, I believe, the wisest man I have ever met.

 

[Arbo]

Another thought- Respect is due to older folks simply because they know more about life than younger folks do. It's just right.

 

[John of Japan]

In our area, it has gone from disrespecting elders to what seems to be hate.

Examples: public political discussions where serious consideration is given to the thought that the savings older folks have accumulated should be taken from them and given to the younger generation to purchase homes. Comments concerning the schools that if it comes to granny eating or johnny having a bus to ride, johnny wins. Comments that enough older workers should be fired each year to accomodate jobs for the new graduates. Comments that older folks in larger homes should be forced to move into smaller ones while still paying the larger mortgage, so younger families can live in the bigger houses while still paying the smaller mortgage.

In churches: comments like "it is time for the older people to realize the younger folks are in control now. They should tithe faithfully but if they don't like how the church does things, just stay home and mail the check."

And here is the irony: in the church situation, it is folks roughly 45-55 saying boot out the older folks and do things "like the young folks want it done." BUT the folks in the 20-40 age range are wanting things done like the older folks want it done.

In our town at least, there seems to be a spirit of rebellion run rampant. Anyone who is in the least bit seen as having any sort of authority or any sort of respect due them is public enemy number one.

There seems here to be a great deal of pain in the younger generation. I think we led them on to believe if they just get that sheepskin they will immediately have a high paying job and all the perks that go with it. Now they find themselves owing huge student loans, jobs have dried up, and they are not getting to suddenly "run the show" as they were led to believe they would.

And they see us over 55 folks as standing in their way, refusing to die off and open up the way for them. I think it may get really a lot worse, as scripture talks about in the last days.

Very sad. As the Scripture says, "If the foundation be destroyed, what shall the righteous do."

My heart breaks for the younger ones, but I also believe this may discipline from the Lord on all of us. It may be the best thing for our souls for the young ones to have to learn patience, to have to do menial labor, and to have to struggle.

I know it gave my grandparents' and parents' generations more character than my own rebellious one.

I agree. I remember when I was young and working in a factory trying to put myself through college, I was strangely comforted by this passage:
"26 It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD. 27 It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth. 28 He sitteth alone and keepeth silence, because he hath borne it upon him. (Lam. 3)