Your Confession of Faith...Let's see it!

[Iconoclast]

From the reformed reader:

http://www.reformedreader.org/rpc.htm

I often viewed my friends who attended "catechism" classes as people who could not possibly be "born again" and therefore, in desperate need of evangelization. For unlike their misguided and dead church, our church had no creed but Christ, and we needed no such "man-made" guides to faith since we depended upon the Bible alone. Whatever "catechism" was, I wanted no part of it!

Catechism (from the Greek word catechesis) is simply instruction in the basic doctrines of the Christian faith. Instead of replacing or supplanting the role of the Bible in Christian education, catechism ideally serves as the basis for it. For the practice of catechism, as properly understood, is the Christian equivalent of looking at the box top of a jigsaw puzzle before one starts to put all of those hundreds of little pieces together. It is very important to look at the big picture and have it clearly in mind, so that we do not bog down in details, or get endlessly sidetracked by some unimportant or irrelevant issue. The theological categories given to us through catechism, help us to make sense out of the myriad of details found in the Scriptures themselves. Catechism serves as a guide to better understanding Scripture.

The practice of catechism also serves as an important safeguard against heresy and helps to mitigate some of the problems associated with the private interpretation of Scripture. How many times have you been forced to sit through a Bible study in which the goal was not to discover what the text actually says, but instead to discover what a particular verse means to each of the studies' participants?

 

[DHK]

I asked for a confession based on your "creed"....

In general the Baptists are not and never were a "creedal people."
The Presbyterians have their Westminster Confession of Faith.
Other denominations, likewise, have their Catechisms and Confessions.
Among Christianity the Baptists have been historically the most persecuted of any part of Christianity. Because of their adherence to soul liberty they have Baptist distinctives that unite them in defining them as Baptists. Within that framework they are evangelical and believe in certain fundamentals of the faith, but not in a confession or creed. There is too much variety among our Baptist brethren to adhere to a confession.
Local church autonomy also prevents the same adherence.
Your putting forth of a confession is akin to promoting a denomination.
I stand firmly against all denominational endeavors and enterprises.

 

[annsni]

I believe that this is a GREAT exercise and makes one think. I would even consider doing this just as a course of personal study for myself! When my husband was studying for his ordination, a group of them gathered every 3 weeks and names were drawn from a hat. The person who's name was drawn was to teach on a particular doctrine out of the 10 basic doctrines (the doctrine of God, the doctrine of Scripture, the doctrine of Jesus, the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, the doctrine of the church, etc.). The key was that ALL had to be prepared and since all were prepared, they could question the "teacher" that week and really challenge him on what he was teaching. He said that it was a fantastic time of study and learning more of Scripture.

So I think this is a challenge that ALL of us should take up if for nothing else, our own personal study and growth. Thanks Icon!:thumbsup:

 

[annsni]

In general the Baptists are not and never were a "creedal people."
The Presbyterians have their Westminster Confession of Faith.
Other denominations, likewise, have their Catechisms and Confessions.
Among Christianity the Baptists have been historically the most persecuted of any part of Christianity. Because of their adherence to soul liberty they have Baptist distinctives that unite them in defining them as Baptists. Within that framework they are evangelical and believe in certain fundamentals of the faith, but not in a confession or creed. There is too much variety among our Baptist brethren to adhere to a confession.
Local church autonomy also prevents the same adherence.
Your putting forth of a confession is akin to promoting a denomination.
I stand firmly against all denominational endeavors and enterprises.

I've seen Baptist confessions before so they are not against them.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

In general the Baptists are not and never were a "creedal people." [
The Presbyterians have their Westminster Confession of Faith.
Other denominations, likewise, have their Catechisms and Confessions.
Among Christianity the Baptists have been historically the most persecuted of any part of Christianity. Because of their adherence to soul liberty they have Baptist distinctives that unite them in defining them as Baptists. Within that framework they are evangelical and believe in certain fundamentals of the faith, but not in a confession or creed. There is too much variety among our Baptist brethren to adhere to a confession.
Local church autonomy also prevents the same adherence.
Your putting forth of a confession is akin to promoting a denomination.
I stand firmly against all denominational endeavors and enterprises.

Maybe you should look here: From A Baptist Catechism with Commentary

5. Baptists used catechisms extensively and with much spiritual profit
until the past century. This objection itself demonstrates the sad
departure of some Baptists from their own doctrinal distinctives and
practice, and the ignorance of some modern Baptists concerning their
own history and spiritual heritage. Following are some of the more
well–known catechisms written and used by Baptists:
• Henry Jessey, Particular Baptist, A Catechism for Babes, or Little
Ones, 1652.
• Hercules Collins, Particular Baptist, The Orthodox Catechism
(adapted from the Heidelberg Catechism), 1680.
• Thomas Grantham, General Baptist, St. Paul’s Catechism (based
on the six principles of Hebrews 6), 1687.
• Benjamin Keach and William Collins, The Baptist Catechism,
1693.
• The Philadelphia Baptist Association of Particular Baptists
published a catechism appended to their Philadelphia Confession
of Faith, 1742.
• William Gadsby, Gospel Standard Baptist, published a catechism
entitled The Things Most Surely Believed Among Us, 1809.
• C. H. Spurgeon published A Baptist Catechism (compiled from
the Westminster Shorter Catechism and Keach’s Baptist
Catechism), 1855.
• The Sunday School Board of the Southern Baptist Convention
published two catechisms: the first by J. P. Boyce, A Brief
Catechism of Bible Doctrine (1864) and the second by John A.
Broadus (1892). The latter work was jointly published by both the
Southern Baptist Convention and the American Baptist
Publication Society.

 

[annsni]

Don't forget The Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689

 

[DHK]

I've seen Baptist confessions before so they are not against them.

They "were" not against them. Put them in their historical context.

It is true that confessions and creeds could both be described as concise statements of belief, but the difference hinges upon how they are used. Baptists originated in 17th-century England when state churches crafted creeds that carried the force of law. These churches imposed penalties upon those such as Baptists who dissented from accepted doctrine or practice. Baptist confessions carried no punitive measures, but rather affirmed what a group of Baptists believed in a specific time and place. Creeds connote coercion while confessions suggest voluntarism.

http://www.baptisthistory.org/contissues/holcomb.htm

We are no longer "at war" with the "state church." The government is not going to fine us if we dissent from "their beliefs and practices, etc. In the past they served their purposes. Today the closest to a confession of faith that one has is the SBC Baptist Faith and Message of 1963, and that has been revised a couple of times since then. I wouldn't agree with it anyway.

Your suggestion is good. There are ten basic doctrines. Every person ought to know what they believe, and why they believe what they believe, about those doctrines. Basically that is what is presented in both an ordination paper, and a church statement of faith.
Confessions and creeds are not needed.

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe that this is a GREAT exercise and makes one think. I would even consider doing this just as a course of personal study for myself! When my husband was studying for his ordination, a group of them gathered every 3 weeks and names were drawn from a hat. The person who's name was drawn was to teach on a particular doctrine out of the 10 basic doctrines (the doctrine of God, the doctrine of Scripture, the doctrine of Jesus, the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, the doctrine of the church, etc.). The key was that ALL had to be prepared and since all were prepared, they could question the "teacher" that week and really challenge him on what he was teaching. He said that it was a fantastic time of study and learning more of Scripture.

So I think this is a challenge that ALL of us should take up if for nothing else, our own personal study and growth. Thanks Icon!:thumbsup:

Exactly ANN,
We say we are bible believers and yet when asked a specific question on a doctrinal term, we often fumble around, get bits and pieces of it, leave out important details,etc. A well written Confession of faith, or a Good Bible catechism give the main points to aid in biblestudy,and help us keep a proper biblical and scriptural framework in our heads:thumbsup:

Let's say we were asked this question>>>>

How does the Lord Jesus Christ execute the office of a
priest?

Ask yourself how you would go about to answer it. You might come up with a couple of verses,and maybe an illustration.....where a well written catechism would put most of the main and important ideas out there for you, as in question 74...on page 132...you could go there and have a whole bible study on it if time allowed for it, or you could grab a couple of the main ideas:thumbsup: It is quick and yet you can start with it and go as deep as you want.....,

 

[DHK]

DHK



Maybe you should look here: From A Baptist Catechism with Commentary

5. Baptists used catechisms extensively and with much spiritual profit
until the past century. This objection itself demonstrates the sad
departure of some Baptists from their own doctrinal distinctives and
practice, and the ignorance of some modern Baptists concerning their
own history and spiritual heritage.Following are some of the more
well–known catechisms written and used by Baptists:
• Henry Jessey, Particular Baptist, A Catechism for Babes, or Little
Ones, 1652.
• Hercules Collins, Particular Baptist, The Orthodox Catechism
(adapted from the Heidelberg Catechism), 1680.
• Thomas Grantham, General Baptist, St. Paul’s Catechism (based
on the six principles of Hebrews 6), 1687.
• Benjamin Keach and William Collins, The Baptist Catechism,
1693.
• The Philadelphia Baptist Association of Particular Baptists
published a catechism appended to their Philadelphia Confession
of Faith, 1742.
• William Gadsby, Gospel Standard Baptist, published a catechism
entitled The Things Most Surely Believed Among Us, 1809.
• C. H. Spurgeon published A Baptist Catechism (compiled from
the Westminster Shorter Catechism and Keach’s Baptist
Catechism), 1855.
• The Sunday School Board of the Southern Baptist Convention
published two catechisms: the first by J. P. Boyce, A Brief
Catechism of Bible Doctrine (1864) and the second by John A.
Broadus (1892). The latter work was jointly published by both the
Southern Baptist Convention and the American Baptist
Publication Society.

I don't need to look there.
Icon, I don't live in the 17th or 18th centuries.
I live in the 21st century. Our times have changed.

 

[Iconoclast]

I don't need to look there.
Icon, I don't live in the 17th or 18th centuries.
I live in the 21st century. Our times have changed.

The bible has not changed.You said that Baptists did not use these tools,This list shows otherwise....

What answer would you offer to this DHK?

How does the Lord Jesus Christ execute the office of a priest?

 

[Iconoclast]

Don't forget The Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689

In the OP I took the outline from the 1689 and asked people to supply the answer....Only van offered a serious attempt which I thanked him for.

This idea can be expanded to the Books of scripture itself...take ephesians

6 Chapters-

Take 6 pages..one for each chapter...

Write out as much or as little as you can for each book...if you know 10 verses put that down, if you cannot remember the verses to start with,,,put down a main idea.

EPH 1-the blessing of election


2 you hath he quickened,who were dead,But God, for by grace, not of yourselves,good works which He ordained, one new man,


3The eternal purpose made known to the church,




4 new man


5 walk worthy,redeeming the time,husband and Wife,Christ and the church


6Children obey, put on the full armor of God....

fill in as many verses as you can to start....


phillipians only has 4 chapters, or if desperate try JUDE,:laugh::laugh:

 

[Yeshua1]

In another thread I asked a couple of the members who do not believe in catechisms and Confessions of faith to put their view of the bible only to the test...I will expand that challenge to all on BB....No Cheating, No looking anything up,

If all books and bibles were confiscated and you had to write what you believe and teach others what would you say....starting from scratch.....??

Have fun....


Of God and the Holy Trinity
[God is a truine being, One Being, existing eternally as 3 seperate persons, called Father/Son/Holy Spirit]

Of God's Decree

Of Creation
[Done by fiat of God, in 6 literal days, God created all things, and crated all living creatures by divine act, NO evolutionary processes!]

Of Divine Providence
[God provides what is needed when its needed]

Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the punishment thereof
[adam sinned by free will choice, God decreed in that Fall that all persons would be seen as being in adam going forward, a s a sinner by birth and choice, ansd are spiritually dead to God in that state... ONLY jesus avoided that fall]

Of God's Covenant
[between the ones chosen by God to be the Elect and saved in Jesus Christ]

Of Christ the Mediator
[Only One appointed to be between God and man!]
Of Free Will
[We as sinners don't have it in a full sense, as our free wills bound and limited due to sin natures!]

Of Effectual Calling
[ALL those whom God intended to be saved by death of Christ will be enabled and will respond to the call to receive jesus and get saved]

Of Justification
[ provided by death of jesus A:ONE. sinners received salvation by grace, received thru faith ALONE]

Of Adoption
[Happens when the Holy spirit seals and indwells us at moment of the New birth]

Of Sanctification
[ has varying statges, purified from all past sins, in the process now of prgressive becoming more confirmed into image of jesus, completed when raised as a glorified being at resurrection]

Of Saving Faith
[gift of the Lord towards those saved by death of Christ on their behalf]

Of Repentance unto Life and Salvation
[work of god to have us change view on what really saves us, changed from seeing our good works/performance as way to have God creedit us, or by totally and fully relying upon death/resurrection of Christ to save us]

Of Good Works
[Done by those saved as to glorify god,and to evidence new life now in Christ]

Of the Perseverance of the Saints
[ALL those saved by grace of god are kept by God, will endure to the End by being dound still walking and evidencing a change dlife]

Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation
[Thw work of God, fully persuaded that God will finish/complete that work in us saved]

Of the Law of God
[Ceremonial aspects to national Isreal, Moral law shows us the Will of God, fully kept for us by jesus]
Of the Gospel and the Extent of Grace thereof
[Birth/death/resurrection/ascension of jesus]

Of Marriage
[God defined it for all times as between one man and one woman]
Of the Church

Of the Communion of Saints
[universal church, comprised of all saved living and dead in Christ!]
Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper
[salvation required, not water baptism, to partake of communion]
Of Baptism
[Outward symbol of an inward work]
Of the Lord's Supper
[open to all saved persons walkingas they ought be in the lord]
Of the State of Man after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead
[saved dead go to heaven; lost to Hell/All saved face Bhema seat of Christ, all lost Great White thrown judgement]
Of the Last Judgement

[

 

[Rippon]

I don't need to look there.
Icon, I don't live in the 17th or 18th centuries.
I live in the 21st century. Our times have changed.

DHK,you are ahistorical.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK,you are ahistorical.

While no one has to use study helps, to say they are not beneficial is to hold back truth from the people of God.

Some have tried this small exercise,and just having to think through the different areas is helpful and keeps us thinking of verses to present to others.

If each took more time, they could develop a sound and workable theology that will help us to fulfill 1 pet3:15.:thumbsup:

Those who refuse to do so, many times are not useful to others because their thoughts are not biblically focused enough to connect the scriptural dots.

many have used these tools for that purpose and can give a faithful rendering of truth....:thumbs:

 

[DHK]

DHK,you are ahistorical.

If it is history you want, then quote Augustine's confession of faith, or dig up Tertullian's or perhaps Polycarp's, if you can find it. Why stick to these stodgy old Reformers? Go closer to the source.

 

[Iconoclast]

If it is history you want, then quote Augustine's confession of faith, or dig up Tertullian's or perhaps Polycarp's, if you can find it. Why stick to these stodgy old Reformers? Go closer to the source.

Jesus is the source and they focused on Him:thumbs:

 

[DHK]

Jesus is the source and they focused on Him:thumbs:

Then if you are honest now you can admit I don't need another man's confession of faith, creed or catechism. They are irrelevant. I am focused on my Bible.

 

[righteousdude2]

Just What is a Confession of Fatih?

RD, it was supposed to be a confession of faith -- not a testimony.

Is it not a testimony that is all inclusive of your testimony, and it is that testimony that reflects your confession of what you believe [faith] and how you got there? My testimony is all inclusive of what I believe when it comes to everything Icon asked for, I simply decided to put it into a capsule of words that show how I came to decide on Jesus as my Savior. :applause:

 

[Yeshua1]

Then if you are honest now you can admit I don't need another man's confession of faith, creed or catechism. They are irrelevant. I am focused on my Bible.

agree with you that the Bible is the ONLY inspired revelation from god to us, ONLY source fordoctrines/practices, but what is wrong with reformed using those as say bible study aids/almost like mini commentaries?

 

[DHK]

agree with you that the Bible is the ONLY inspired revelation from god to us, ONLY source fordoctrines/practices, but what is wrong with reformed using those as say bible study aids/almost like mini commentaries?

Nothing, as long as it is kept personal.
I refer to many different resources in my own personal study. However if I came on the board and every post said: But Spurgeon says:" and again, But Spurgeon says: " But Spurgeon says, " etc., Then who is my authority? Is it Spurgeon or the Bible? Spurgeon believes the Bible. But if I constantly quote him as my authority I have allowed him to become my authority rather than my Bible. Some people have done that with Calvin, with the ECF, and some with Confessions. Let us make sure that our authority is the Bible, all the time!
Again, it is not wrong to refer to other resource material, but let us not make it our authority by continually doing so, or habitually doing so. The Bible must be supreme. "But sanctify the Lord Jesus Christ in your heart and be ready always to give an answer to every man (from the Bible) that asks of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear."
Yes, I added "from the Bible" because that is what Peter had in mind. He wasn't speaking of Augustine, Calvin, Confessions, etc. He was referring to the Word of God.