Your take on Mark 9:43-50

[pinoybaptist]

I attended church at a New Covenanter Reformed Theology Baptist Church (that is not the church name, just their affiliation and their theology) last Sunday, and the pastor's topic was Mark 9:43-50, which I am quoting here in full:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:47 And if thine eye offend F32 thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. [/FONT]9:50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

Personally, my take on it is that this is speaking of gospel obedience, or practical sanctification, or whatever you want to call it. At the conclusion of his message, it seems the pastor also sees this as having to do with practical holiness.

But he also said that "life" is eternal life, or the life that one gets in eternal salvation, heavenly life, for lack of a better term.
And that is because he also says Jesus speaks of hell in these verses.

What is your take on this ?

I am asking because this seems to suggest that eternal salvation is by works, if this life is the eternal life we can get by being eternally saved.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

"...the words are to be understood, not literally, but figuratively; and the sense is, it is better to part with every thing here, that is detrimental to a man's doing, or enjoying, what is spiritually good, and enter into eternal life" - Dr. John Gill

Dr. Gill put it more eloquently that I did as a new Christian. When I was asked about the giving up of this or that in order to follow Jesus my answer was, and still is, "If it is in the way, whatever it may be, of your following Jesus and going after Him, get rid of it."

 

[skypair]

I attended church at a New Covenanter Reformed Theology Baptist Church (that is not the church name, just their affiliation and their theology) last Sunday, and the pastor's topic was Mark 9:43-50, which I am quoting here in full:


Personally, my take on it is that this is speaking of gospel obedience, or practical sanctification, or whatever you want to call it. At the conclusion of his message, it seems the pastor also sees this as having to do with practical holiness.
...
What is your take on this ?

I am asking because this seems to suggest that eternal salvation is by works, if this life is the eternal life we can get by being eternally saved.

Pinoy, here's my "take" (FWIW to you :laugh: )

This is from the Sermon on the Mount. In that sermon, Christ was annunciating the "law" of His kingdom. More specifically, His earthly, MK but it does have application to His earthly but spiritual kingdom, the church.

In the latter case of the church, the application, like the kingdom itself, is SPIRITUAL. If you eye offend, for instance, you are under the "law covenant" and you need to come to Jesus for sin.

But now let's look at the PHYSICAL MK. From there, after 1000 years, the believing citizens will go into God's PHYSICAL kingdom and receive new, restored bodies. But again, the options are keep the law and pluck out the eye or fall upon the mercy of Christ. This passage "comes on" almost like the one about the RYR. He claimed under the law that he had done all the law and was thereby, saved. Conceding that to be true, Jesus told him to sell all he had (riches would soon offend just as an "offending eye" could) and follow Jesus (which in the MK will be literally possible.

That's what I see anyway. Most people preach the Sermon on the Mount for us but since the kingdom is only spiritual now, we also look at the spiritual rather than literal application.

skypair

 

[pinoybaptist]

Thanks for your reply, RB and SP.
I guess I really do not have any issue at all with getting rid of whatever is hindering us from following or serving Christ here on earth. That should be a given for anybody who professes faith in and love for, Christ, without having to go into the Lordship or no-Lordship thing.

I guess what threw me off-track a bit is the Lord's equating total devotion to him as a way of avoiding hell, where the worm dieth not. I would like to know, pick your brains (no offense), if you will, how we could harmonize grace and works here.

For the record, I claim no deep understanding of this Scripture, and have asked my fellow PB's on another board about this, as well.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Here is a real Irony, Origen of Alexandria took the subject passage literally and physically yet is accused of doctrines that are to spiritualized


-------------------------------------
Consider Origen (c.185-c.254AD) of
Alexandria. People who think they take
the Bible more literally than others condemn
Origen for saying that there is much in the
Bible which can only be understood
on a spiritual level.

1 Co 2:14 (KJV1611 Edition):
But the naturall man receiueth not the things
of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishnesse
vnto him: neither can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.

Back in his day, a person prosessing faith
in Messiah Yeshua were trained in The Faith
for two years before they were Baptized
(some were martyred prior to Baptism, blowing
the concept you have to do the Work of Baptistm
to get saved.) Origen was a Training Mentor for
new Converts.

When Origen came of age, he literally took
these verses:

Mat 18:89 Wherefore, if thy hand or thy foote cause thee
to offend, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better
for thee to enter into life, halt, or maimed, then hauing
two hands, or two feete, to be cast into euerlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye cause thee to offende, plucke it out,
and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter
into life with one eye, then hauing two eyes
to be cast into hell fire.

See also this scripture:
Mat 19:11-12 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition)
But he sayd vnto them, All men cannot receiue this thing, saue they to whom it is giuen.
12 For there are some eunuches, which were so borne of their mothers belly: and there be some eunuches, which be gelded by men: and there be some eunuches, which haue gelded them selues for the kingdome of heauen. He that is able to receiue this, let him receiue it.

We are talking about a sacrifice here - not an offering! 'Geld' means physical castration. 'Eunuch' means a male who has been physically castrated.

Origen had his sexual members surgically removed
so he would be more interested in Serving
Messiah Yeshua than chasing women.
I really think Origen is condemned for being
way to literal but the words used to condemn
him say things like this passage from the Dictionary
of Premillennial Theology (Kregel, 1996):

Origen's method of exegesis was so subjective that
it allowed for an almost infinite number
of symbolic meanings and interpretations of
the biblical text, most of which bore little resemblance
to the plain meaning of the words.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Thanks for that, Ed.
Really enlightening info you got on Origen.
Also, haven't read 1611 English for a looonnnggg time.:thumbs:

 

[canadyjd]

9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 9:47 And if thine eye offend F32 thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. 9:50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

The context of the passage appears to be dealing with the coming persecution of Christians. (v.41-42) "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as (followers} of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward. (420 Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea."

Jesus had just compared believers to little children who accept Him. He then warns that some will be tempted to "stumble", most likely because of the coming persecution. The "hand", "foot", "eye" that causes to stumble is symbolic of persecution that causes loss for the believer, perhaps even being maimed for the cause of the gospel. To "stumble" means to turn from the gospel, and therefore reject Christ, because of the fear of persecution.

Jesus is saying that believers must stand firm (the reference to salt) and persevere in the midst of persecution, even if their body is to be abused to the point of losing a hand, foot, or eye.

Better to enter the kingdom maimed than to be thrown into hell whole.

peace to youraying:

 

[TCGreek]

Here's my take: Probably not genuine.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Here's my take: Probably not genuine.

The TNIV strikes again. :laugh:

 

[TCGreek]

The TNIV strikes again. :laugh:

Do you own a copy of the TNIV? It's almost always spot on. :laugh:

But seriously, we're not going to settle this matter this side of time.