Your thoughts on Augustine?

[BrianT]

Hi,

I don't know if this belongs in this forum or the History forum. Anyway...

For those of you (especially Baptists) that know something about Augustine, I am looking for opinions on his life and views. What do you think of him?

Brian

 

[Jim1999]

May I quote Charles Haddon Spurgeon at the outset:

"Now, the fire-line from Pentecost seems to be one simple channel. You may take a step from Paul to Augustine, and then from AUgustine to Calvin, and then-you may keep your foot up a good while before you find another such. Augustin was the great mine out of which Calvin digged his mental wealth. The Puritans got their patterns from the same sources, the Bible and Calvin."
pps 120-121, In SHadow of The Broad Brim, Judson Press.

I think Spurgeon said it all.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Link]

What about things like infant Baptism and healing through relics then?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Jim1999: I think Spurgeon said it all.

HP: Would it be fair to call Spurgeon a Calvinist?

 

[Rippon]

Spurgeon called himself a Calvinist quite clearly . He was as Augustian as they come -- minus the errors .

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Rippon: He was as Augustian as they come -- minus the errors .

HP: That sounds like the depiction of a black crow, minus the feathers.

 

[Jim1999]

Let the very words of Mr. Spurgeon speak for themselves:

"I am as firm a believer in the doctrine of grace as any man living, and a true Calvinist after the order of John Calvin himself........." C.H. Spurgeon

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Jim1999]

As with any of the church fathers, we must discern, what we perceive to be truth with our modern understanding, and what they understood with their level of understanding.

If the modern man can't figure that one out, he has no right to even read a book let alone give an opinion...

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Jim1999: "I am as firm a believer in the doctrine of grace as any man living, and a true Calvinist after the order of John Calvin himself........." C.H. Spurgeon

HP: Now there is a man that right or wrong at least knew who his father was, and was not afraid to admit it, nor get offended if it was brought to his attention. I like that in a man, or in a woman. You at least have a solid footing for discussion, unlike many I have tried to converse with that hold to a set dogma in one hand while tryng to distance themselves or deny their father and the logical ends of that belief with the other.

 

[nate]

Was C.H. Spurgeon a Covenant Theologian? I have heard many say he was and some say that he wasn't. I was wondering if anyone could clear this up.

 

[Jim1999]

Nate, There are not a few that would like that Mr. Spurgeon was not a true Calvinist, which includes covenant theology. I think this quote from one of his sermons clearly paints the picture:

I do not come into this pulpit hoping that perhaps somebody will of his own free will return to Christ. My hope lies in another quarter. I hope that my Master will lay hold of some of them and say, "You are mine, and you shall be mine. I claim you for myself." My hope arises from the freeness of grace, and not from the freedom of the will.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon

In other sermons, Mr. Spurgeon speaks specifically about the "covenant of grace", and yet other specifics about Calvinism, including the Abrahamic Covenant.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Wow --- I was expecting much more bashing, especially since Augustine was a catholic.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi,

I don't know if this belongs in this forum or the History forum. Anyway...

For those of you (especially Baptists) that know something about Augustine, I am looking for opinions on his life and views. What do you think of him?

Brian

Augustine made his blunders - but on some points he was ok.

 

[Taufgesinnter]

Hi,

I don't know if this belongs in this forum or the History forum. Anyway...

For those of you (especially Baptists) that know something about Augustine, I am looking for opinions on his life and views. What do you think of him?

Brian

Probably the main reason for most of his errors was that he was almostly completely cut off from apostolic tradition. He spoke Latin. He could not read Greek, so he could not access the Bible of the apostolic Church, the LXX, or the NT in its original language, and could not read the Eastern fathers of Jerusalem, Antioch, etc. Thus he had no historic moorings to hold him or ancient landmarks to guide him. He relied on Jerome's problematic Latin translation of the Bible, and a mistranslated verse there gave rise to his view of original sin, which spawned the doctrines of purgatory, indulgences, the immaculate conception of Mary, and, ironically, Calvinism, all of which, in their ultimate forms, are antithetical to the teachings of the ancient Church.

 

[BrianT]

and a mistranslated verse there gave rise to his view of original sin, which spawned the doctrines of purgatory, indulgences, the immaculate conception of Mary, and, ironically, Calvinism, all of which, in their ultimate forms, are antithetical to the teachings of the ancient Church.

Can you provide more details about this? Which verse, what was the translation issue, etc.? How did this spawn those other doctrines? Thanks.

 

[El_Guero]

Augustine is the one of the most misunderstood theologians to have ever lived.

He is also one of the best theologians.

Hi,

I don't know if this belongs in this forum or the History forum. Anyway...

For those of you (especially Baptists) that know something about Augustine, I am looking for opinions on his life and views. What do you think of him?

Brian

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BR: Augustine made his blunders - but on some points he was ok.

HP: And what might those points be?

 

[Rippon]

I beg your pardon , but Calvinism is not in opposition to the teachings of the early Church . And by early Church I mean from the time of the Ascension of Jesus to he death of John the beloved . All Calvinistic teachings are found most clearly in the holy Writ . Now carry on .

 

[El_Guero]

He taught rhetoric in Latin because he liked Latin better than hed liked Greek . . .

Is the rest of your post based upon your misunderstanding of his linguistic capability?

Probably the main reason for most of his errors was that he was almostly completely cut off from apostolic tradition. He spoke Latin. He could not read Greek, so he could not access the Bible of the apostolic Church, the LXX, or the NT in its original language, and could not read the Eastern fathers of Jerusalem, Antioch, etc. Thus he had no historic moorings to hold him or ancient landmarks to guide him. He relied on Jerome's problematic Latin translation of the Bible, and a mistranslated verse there gave rise to his view of original sin, which spawned the doctrines of purgatory, indulgences, the immaculate conception of Mary, and, ironically, Calvinism, all of which, in their ultimate forms, are antithetical to the teachings of the ancient Church.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Hi,

I don't know if this belongs in this forum or the History forum. Anyway...

For those of you (especially Baptists) that know something about Augustine, I am looking for opinions on his life and views. What do you think of him?

Brian

Man of God.

You can find a lot of info on the 'church fathers' here...

http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/3_ch10.htm

You will find Augustine about half way down.