Your Thoughts?

[StephenUSAFVet]

I’ve been reading this group and it’s posts for a very long time. Whenever I have a question, even before becoming a member myself, I always turned to this forum platform in search for answers that were of sound doctrine.
I have read so many posts on this platform regarding translations of the Bible. What I have witnessed is sad. Within the body of said believers here, I’ve seen hundreds of times one person putting down another based on the translation they read from; whether it’s someone who believes the KJV is the only inspired Word of God, or that a modern translation could also be inspired.
Here’s my issue with that thought-process.

Since when did the Holy Spirit only speak to someone through a specific English Bible translation? Arguing and insulting someone because of the translation they study from only says that you believe the Holy Spirit can be contained in a certain translation.

Shouldn’t the Bible be studied? Shouldn’t we as Christians, in a Christian-based forum, be edifying and lifting others up? Shouldn’t we, instead to picking apart someone because they read a KJV or ESV, praise God that they are reading God’s Word?

While I have come to this platform many many times for Biblical guidance, I’ve found myself coming less and less because I see the same hypocrisy and anger being spewed out by those who then claim to know which Bible translation is better.

That is sad.


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[Logos1560]

Shouldn’t we, instead to picking apart someone because they read a KJV or ESV, praise God that they are reading God’s Word?

Where are the posts where someone is picked apart for reading a KJV? I have read the KJV over 50 years.

On the other hand, do you suggest that claims or assertions are made for the KJV that are not true should not be answered or exposed as not being true? Do the Scriptures suggest that believers should be allowed to deceive themselves or to be deceived by others by believing claims and assertions that are not true?

The making of allegations against other English Bibles other than the KJV based on use of unjust divers measures or double standards may be properly answered and condemned according to scriptural truth. Since the applying of divers measures/standards unjustly would be an abomination to the LORD according to the Scriptures, do you suggest that this should not be condemned?

 

[Salty]

Where are the posts where someone is picked apart for reading a KJV? I have read the KJV over 50 years. ...

There is one BB member who often posts:
" FALSE DOCTRINE is an important part of ministry. And the KJVO myth IS a false doctrine."

and another poster gives comments such as:
" you're happy with your humanistic naturalistic intellectual position of no perfect Bible, great, enjoy your error-ridden Bible. What do you want me to tell you?
You keep teaching people that all copies and translations of the Bible have mistakes, and I'll keep teaching people that copies and translations of the Bible can be perfect."

 

[Salty]

Check out post 23 & 24 of this BB thread:
Saved Using a Non-KJV??

 

[Logos1560]

There is one BB member who often posts:
" FALSE DOCTRINE is an important part of ministry. And the KJVO myth IS a false doctrine."
"

That poster does not say that reading the KJV is false doctrine, and he has not picked me apart for reading the KJV.

 

[StephenUSAFVet]

I’m not saying the KJV isn’t accurate. It’s beautifully written. I’m also not implying any modern translation should be thrown in the trash. I have gone to churches that preach out of the KJV, and I was raised reading it. It’s what I know most. But I also study other translations for different reasons.
We have some who would rather criticize another based on the translation they read, instead of encouraging them. They’ve limited the power of the Holy Spirit. It’s kind of like an IFB church I went to several years ago. The pastor preached against having a television. Several men in the church bought him one and he preached how great it was. Absolutely ridiculous.


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[Salty]

That poster does not say that reading the KJV is false doctrine, and he has not picked me apart for reading the KJV.

Correct --- the key word is "O" = ONLY!

He has no problem with the KJV - its with those who say any other version is a prevision

 

[Paul from Antioch]

I'm in agreement with Bro Salty (Even though his choice of military service I've oft wondered ) ANYWAY....I (Like most BB'ers) grew up using the KJV....As a newborn in God's family (On April 23, 1966, BTW) my birth into His Family was at a church in Tucson AZ---Tucson being a retirement mecca for lots of folks. Most members were also using the KJV, I too, followed suit. About a year after that the USAF moved me to Ramstein AB, Germany. Here too, the pastor and members of the Baptist mission to which God led me also used the KJV. When I was released from AD in the USAF, I returned home in SE PA. Again God led me to a Baptist church near where i lived. However, her pastor (David Auckland) was a highly-educated pastor who knew more than I ever even hoped to know. When I gave him my newly-purchased "Which Bible?" all I thought it would point out were how the KJV differed from more modern versions such as the RSV. Then he told me, this controversy was more than that. (Remember, I was only abt 3 YO in my new family....How many 3 YO's know much about anything?!!?) Quickly realizing that this controversy was far beyond my current pay grade, I let "it" go at that & settled down to take in his excellence in going to the Greek & Hebrew to pull out gems of which I knew little. Each week he'd usually have messages on 3 books of the Bible: On Sun AM was one book; on Sun PM, another book; & on Wed PM, another book + he'd already started a Bible Institute on Mon and/or Tues nights. Like a dry sponge, I'd soak up as much as I could from not only his wealth of knowledge, but that of other elders who also taught there. I was so much ignorant of what really mattered that I craved to "Fill my cup, Lord; I life it up Lord." that I not only tried my best (w/ the H S as my guide, of course) to volunteer in as many outreaches that I could: PA sound system, being a sub SS teacher, a part-time church librarian, Bus ministry Bus Captain, weekly visitation, AWANAs, etc. I just wanted to learn "More About Jesus would I know, More of His grace to others show," etc. Within 3 yrs I felt the HS leading me to enroll in a Bible College. Was I always 110+% good at what I tried to do for Jesus.....Of course not. ANWAY, as a requirement for Eng 202, I sought to examine the controversy over the KJV's baptismal mode, i.e., did the KJV translators seek to confuse its readers by coining "Baptism" as a cover-up for "Immersion"? Result: My 8-page "Baptism" in the KJV" research paper which looked at (1) Christianity in Eng up to (& beyond) 1611; (2) The history of "Baptism" as to its mode in England up to & beyond 1611; & (3) How immersion was used by not only the Ch of Eng [Anglican] but also Eng Baptists. CONCLUSION: In 1611 (& even some 3 decades beyond that) BOTH used Immersion as its proper mode; hence the KJV translators were innocent of misleading readers when it came to the proper mode of baptism. So I don't consider myself anti-KJV. OTOH hand, I also began to ponder over SOME KJVO'ers positions on ALL modern versions as being 100+% evil. Yes, there were/are some modern translations over which I'd question their validity. but, OTOH, I did find that SOME more modern versions acceptable. So....am I a KJVO "Hater"? No, I believe that if the KJV floats your boat....fine! OTOH, if SOME more modern translation are more helpful/useful, I'm not gonna label one as a hairy tick either. Don't we as Christians have more with which we need to fret about than this? Is THIS grounds for dividing up into irreconciable factions? I don't think so....We've got lost and hell-bent people (some of whom are in our own families) much less society in general!! Isn't time we concentrate our efforts where they should be? Selah.

 

[Van]

Cults spring from "my way or the highway" thinking. Those that bash others because they read the KJV (or do not read the KJV) ignore "become all things so we might win some" evangelism. (1 Corinthians 9:22) OTOH, we are to be intolerant of false teachers. In order to pursue both goals, we must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[37818]

When two English translations have readings with a different meaning then which reading is right is an issue.

 

[Yeshua1]

I’ve been reading this group and it’s posts for a very long time. Whenever I have a question, even before becoming a member myself, I always turned to this forum platform in search for answers that were of sound doctrine.
I have read so many posts on this platform regarding translations of the Bible. What I have witnessed is sad. Within the body of said believers here, I’ve seen hundreds of times one person putting down another based on the translation they read from; whether it’s someone who believes the KJV is the only inspired Word of God, or that a modern translation could also be inspired.
Here’s my issue with that thought-process.

Since when did the Holy Spirit only speak to someone through a specific English Bible translation? Arguing and insulting someone because of the translation they study from only says that you believe the Holy Spirit can be contained in a certain translation.

Shouldn’t the Bible be studied? Shouldn’t we as Christians, in a Christian-based forum, be edifying and lifting others up? Shouldn’t we, instead to picking apart someone because they read a KJV or ESV, praise God that they are reading God’s Word?

While I have come to this platform many many times for Biblical guidance, I’ve found myself coming less and less because I see the same hypocrisy and anger being spewed out by those who then claim to know which Bible translation is better.

That is sad.


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I agree with your basic assumptions here, but have to understand that only those into KJVO try to preach division on translations, as I prefer the ESV and NAS myself, but feel that the Kjv is also a good version!

 

[Yeshua1]

There is one BB member who often posts:
" FALSE DOCTRINE is an important part of ministry. And the KJVO myth IS a false doctrine."

and another poster gives comments such as:
" you're happy with your humanistic naturalistic intellectual position of no perfect Bible, great, enjoy your error-ridden Bible. What do you want me to tell you?
You keep teaching people that all copies and translations of the Bible have mistakes, and I'll keep teaching people that copies and translations of the Bible can be perfect."

Those into KJVO many times seem to equate though those of us against the Kjv being perfect means that we see it as being bad or not valid translation also, which is false!

 

[Yeshua1]

When two English translations have readings with a different meaning then which reading is right is an issue.

So does it matter if one would say Christ Jesus, Lord Jesus, or Jesus Christ?

 

[StephenUSAFVet]

I'm in agreement with Bro Salty (Even though his choice of military service I've oft wondered ) ANYWAY....I (Like most BB'ers) grew up using the KJV....As a newborn in God's family (On April 23, 1966, BTW) my birth into His Family was at a church in Tucson AZ---Tucson being a retirement mecca for lots of folks. Most members were also using the KJV, I too, followed suit. About a year after that the USAF moved me to Ramstein AB, Germany. Here too, the pastor and members of the Baptist mission to which God led me also used the KJV. When I was released from AD in the USAF, I returned home in SE PA. Again God led me to a Baptist church near where i lived. However, her pastor (David Auckland) was a highly-educated pastor who knew more than I ever even hoped to know. When I gave him my newly-purchased "Which Bible?" all I thought it would point out were how the KJV differed from more modern versions such as the RSV. Then he told me, this controversy was more than that. (Remember, I was only abt 3 YO in my new family....How many 3 YO's know much about anything?!!?) Quickly realizing that this controversy was far beyond my current pay grade, I let "it" go at that & settled down to take in his excellence in going to the Greek & Hebrew to pull out gems of which I knew little. Each week he'd usually have messages on 3 books of the Bible: On Sun AM was one book; on Sun PM, another book; & on Wed PM, another book + he'd already started a Bible Institute on Mon and/or Tues nights. Like a dry sponge, I'd soak up as much as I could from not only his wealth of knowledge, but that of other elders who also taught there. I was so much ignorant of what really mattered that I craved to "Fill my cup, Lord; I life it up Lord." that I not only tried my best (w/ the H S as my guide, of course) to volunteer in as many outreaches that I could: PA sound system, being a sub SS teacher, a part-time church librarian, Bus ministry Bus Captain, weekly visitation, AWANAs, etc. I just wanted to learn "More About Jesus would I know, More of His grace to others show," etc. Within 3 yrs I felt the HS leading me to enroll in a Bible College. Was I always 110+% good at what I tried to do for Jesus.....Of course not. ANWAY, as a requirement for Eng 202, I sought to examine the controversy over the KJV's baptismal mode, i.e., did the KJV translators seek to confuse its readers by coining "Baptism" as a cover-up for "Immersion"? Result: My 8-page "Baptism" in the KJV" research paper which looked at (1) Christianity in Eng up to (& beyond) 1611; (2) The history of "Baptism" as to its mode in England up to & beyond 1611; & (3) How immersion was used by not only the Ch of Eng [Anglican] but also Eng Baptists. CONCLUSION: In 1611 (& even some 3 decades beyond that) BOTH used Immersion as its proper mode; hence the KJV translators were innocent of misleading readers when it came to the proper mode of baptism. So I don't consider myself anti-KJV. OTOH hand, I also began to ponder over SOME KJVO'ers positions on ALL modern versions as being 100+% evil. Yes, there were/are some modern translations over which I'd question their validity. but, OTOH, I did find that SOME more modern versions acceptable. So....am I a KJVO "Hater"? No, I believe that if the KJV floats your boat....fine! OTOH, if SOME more modern translation are more helpful/useful, I'm not gonna label one as a hairy tick either. Don't we as Christians have more with which we need to fret about than this? Is THIS grounds for dividing up into irreconciable factions? I don't think so....We've got lost and hell-bent people (some of whom are in our own families) much less society in general!! Isn't time we concentrate our efforts where they should be? Selah.

EXACTLY! There are people dying and going to hell and we have some arguing over a translation. Yes there are some translations that suck IMO, but we have some excellent English translations.

 

[Paul from Antioch]

EXACTLY! There are people dying and going to hell and we have some arguing over a translation. Yes there are some translations that suck IMO, but we have some excellent English translations.

 

[tyndale1946]

So does it matter if one would say Christ Jesus, Lord Jesus, or Jesus Christ?

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well it mattered to the Apostle Paul didn't it or he wouldn't have used it in three different context!... Brother Glen

Btw... Yeshua1... Ah forget it!... Salty explained it better than I could!

 

[Salty]

So does it matter if one would say Christ Jesus, Lord Jesus, or Jesus Christ?

According to "Bible Doctrines - Beliefs that Matter" by Mark G. Cambron
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/BTP/Dr_Mark_Cambron/bible_doctrines.pdf
(pg 60-66)

Christ Jesus - He who was exalted, was once humbled
Lord Jesus
Lord - Title of deity and authority
Jesus - His personal name
Jesus Christ - Jesus =, who once humbled Himself, is now exalted


Lord Jesus Christ - His fullest Title

 

[Paul from Antioch]

As a novice in much of the history of the English language, I will say this much: English is a LIVING language, &,as such, is one of the most difficult languages a foreigner to learn. EX: Correctly spell the number after number 1! To, Too, Two!! A living language is one that is subject to change over the years. Take people for instance. You probably grew from a newborn to a young person, etc. Did you continually speak the very same way as a newborn as you do today? Most English-speaking persons would say NO! So it is with English's written form and its word meanings. EX: In James 2 it talks about a person coming into your meeting in GAY clothing!! We'd most likely view that person somewhat differently today than an English speaker did in the early 17th century. GAY back then simply meant FASHIONABLE, which is somewhat different than we English-speakers in 2021. ALSO, since faith comes by hearing & hearing by THE Word of God, how then were Chinese people saved before 1611? Africans? If the KJV is THE immutable word of God, how would a person who doesn't know a thing about the English language know how to be saved? AND, since God's Word is literally IMMUTABLE, how would ANYONE be saved prior to 1611? And I am only referring to the written form. You see, even in logic the KJVO seem to be missing some things. Here again I'm not anti-KJV (nor am I 110+% pro ALL modern versions either!) some seem to be helpful, but then some do not....for me at least. What I'm saying merely is this: As long as a version doesn't dramatically dishonor the orginal Greek and/or the orginal Hebrew/Aramaic languages AND their meaning(s), why we must disfellowship those who happen to use a more modern translation is acting just about as a newborn child: "GIMME THIS....NOW or else I'll keep on bawling TILL Y O U DO!!!

 

[StephenUSAFVet]

As a novice in much of the history of the English language, I will say this much: English is a LIVING language, &,as such, is one of the most difficult languages a foreigner to learn. EX: Correctly spell the number after number 1! To, Too, Two!! A living language is one that is subject to change over the years. Take people for instance. You probably grew from a newborn to a young person, etc. Did you continually speak the very same way as a newborn as you do today? Most English-speaking persons would say NO! So it is with English's written form and its word meanings. EX: In James 2 it talks about a person coming into your meeting in GAY clothing!! We'd most likely view that person somewhat differently today than an English speaker did in the early 17th century. GAY back then simply meant FASHIONABLE, which is somewhat different than we English-speakers in 2021. ALSO, since faith comes by hearing & hearing by THE Word of God, how then were Chinese people saved before 1611? Africans? If the KJV is THE immutable word of God, how would a person who doesn't know a thing about the English language know how to be saved? AND, since God's Word is literally IMMUTABLE, how would ANYONE be saved prior to 1611? And I am only referring to the written form. You see, even in logic the KJVO seem to be missing some things. Here again I'm not anti-KJV (nor am I 110+% pro ALL modern versions either!) some seem to be helpful, but then some do not....for me at least. What I'm saying merely is this: As long as a version doesn't dramatically dishonor the orginal Greek and/or the orginal Hebrew/Aramaic languages AND their meaning(s), why we must disfellowship those who happen to use a more modern translation is acting just about as a newborn child: "GIMME THIS....NOW or else I'll keep on bawling TILL Y O U DO!!!

I have often wondered and asked the same thing. I have nothing against someone who wants to solely read from the KJV. If that’s the version they find themselves eager to pick up and read, and the version through which God speaks to them, then great!!! But if you take a KJV and translate it into another language, it’s no longer the KJV. People were won to the LORD away before 1611. Millions have been led to the LORD since 1611, and not necessarily through a KJV translation.

 

[StephenUSAFVet]

Again, if we say that someone can only be saved through a KJV, and once saved can only grow spiritually by reading a KJV, we have limited the power of the Holy Spirit.

I love how the KJV is written. You won’t find another like it. For personal reading and study, I love the NASB95. If I want a straight to the point version, I also like the NLT.