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Your View On Women As Pastors

Your View On Women As Pastors

  • I see nothing un-Biblical about a woman being a pastor

    Votes: 13 14.0%
  • I believe having a woman as a pastor is un-Biblical

    Votes: 80 86.0%

  • Total voters
    93
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rdwhite

New Member
...Any conservative today who interprets Proverbs correctly interprets the book as the results of the work of those who were involved in higher criticism...

I consider myself conservative, I've taught verse-by-verse through Proverbs, I am confident that I interpreted the book correctly. I do not believe that my correctly interpreted, conservative teaching through Proverbs was the results of those who were involved in higher criticism. I taught and interpreted with the Holy Spirit as my guide and teacher and I am fairly certain the Holy Spirit is NOT involved in higher criticism. I did not use any commentaries, study guides, marginal notes, or outside help of any kind.

So anyway, I am not sure what kind of statement you are trying to make, but I don't see myself conforming to your stereo-typical mold.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
I consider myself conservative, I've taught verse-by-verse through Proverbs, I am confident that I interpreted the book correctly. I do not believe that my correctly interpreted, conservative teaching through Proverbs was the results of those who were involved in higher criticism. I taught and interpreted with the Holy Spirit as my guide and teacher and I am fairly certain the Holy Spirit is NOT involved in higher criticism. I did not use any commentaries, study guides, marginal notes, or outside help of any kind.
I taught through the book of Proverbs verse by verse too and remember one time when I struggled with interpreting a verse and then relied on the structure of Hebrew poetry to solve the problem I had. It has been a long time so I cannot remember the verse. You certainly did use outside help. Nobody operates out of a vacuum except God. Even if you know Hebrew better than anyone in the world you still used outside help. Did you not use the historical background and literary genre of Proverbs to aid in interpreting that book. Has your interpretation been tested by others? If not then you have not opened yourself up to criticism and correction. so it is doubtful that you will really know the strengths and weaknesses of your interpretation.

God gives wisdom. Apparently before Proverbs was thought to be Hebrew poetry they did not have that wisdom necessary to correctly interpret the book. I am quite sure that did not keep people from living for Christ.

Proverbs is Hebrew poetry and most teach it that way today. If you do, then you utilize the work of the liberals and among those were a number of those who also came up with higher criticism. I do not buy into all of higher criticism but parts of it have solved many problems that once were not solved. One of those is to interpret Proverbs as Hebrew poetry.

I find it interesting that there are many things today that conservatives teach that liberals at one time taught.

Whoever promotes truth does not change truth. Truth is still truth.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
That's nice.

Anyway, still waiting...
Think about yourself. Are you flawed and yet teach your children truth? So in essence parts of you are flawed and yet you can teach truth. Shall your children consider you a false teacher because you do not have all truth and unable to teach all truth?

Consider the flaws of calvinism, arminianism, and dispensationalism? Do you listen to any teacher that believes those isms?
 

rdwhite

New Member
If you are a sinner then quit going to church.

Nope, I like my church, I'm going to keep going. In fact, I think everyone who attends our church is a sinner. Some are saved sinners and some are lost sinners, but we are all sinners, so I fit right in. Church helps me, lifts me up, refreshes my spirit, and gives this ole sinner an opportunity to repent and make things right between me and God. It gives me a chance to worship and praise my Lord and Saviour. So I think I'll keep going a while longer.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Nope, I like my church, I'm going to keep going. In fact, I think everyone who attends our church is a sinner. Some are saved sinners and some are lost sinners, but we are all sinners, so I fit right in. Church helps me, lifts me up, refreshes my spirit, and gives this ole sinner an opportunity to repent and make things right between me and God. It gives me a chance to worship and praise my Lord and Saviour. So I think I'll keep going a while longer.
Why listen to other sinners because not one of them has all the truth?
 

Alive in Christ

New Member
I know of 2 Baptist churches around the this area (where I live) who have women pastors, and I recently read of a large Southern Baptist church..I think in the Atlanta area, not sure...that has a woman Senior Pastor. And I know their are others across the country.


Being a "Sola Scriptura" guy, I am fine with women pastors. There is enough evidence in the scriptures regarding women teachers, women leaders, women in authority, women preaching and ministering, and even women pastoring, to satisfy me regarding this issue.

Its not the norm, and probably wont ever be in my lifetime, but I am perfectly fine with women pastors.

Again, if the scriptures speak positively regarding this issue, that settles it for me.
 
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rdwhite

New Member
... You certainly did use outside help. Nobody operates out of a vacuum except God.
I guess you know that because you were there.

Even if you know Hebrew better than anyone in the world you still used outside help. Did you not use the historical background and literary genre of Proverbs to aid in interpreting that book.
Nope, I don't know any Hebrews and there aren't any coming to our church, so I just stuck with plain ole English cross-referenced to other books of the English Bible. I guess us dumb hicks just don't find much use for all that fancy stuff.

Has your interpretation been tested by others?
Yep, the other men in the room and the Holy Spirit.

If not then you have not opened yourself up to criticism and correction.
That happened when I said "I Do", as a married man I'm quit used to criticism and correction.

So it is doubtful that you will really know the strengths and weaknesses of your interpretation.
Well that's probably true, but then until we get to heaven, none of us can know that. But I ain't so worried about it, I figured if something was amiss, the Holy Spirit and the other men present and discussing the passage would have straightened us all out before we left.

God gives wisdom. Apparently before Proverbs was thought to be Hebrew poetry they did not have that wisdom necessary to correctly interpret the book.
Well ain't that something. I doubt it.

Proverbs is Hebrew poetry and most teach it that way today. If you do, then you utilize the work of the liberals and among those were a number of those who also came up with higher criticism. I do not buy into all of higher criticism but parts of it have solved many problems that once were not solved. One of those is to interpret Proverbs as Hebrew poetry.
Well shucks, I guess they forgot to tell us all that.
 
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annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Being a "Sola Scriptura" guy, I am fine with women pastors. There is enough evidence in the scriptures regarding women teachers, women leaders, women in authority, women preaching and ministering, and even women pastoring, to satisfy me regarding this issue.

Its not the norm, and probably wont ever be in my lifetime, but I am perfectly fine with women pastors.

Again, if the scriptures speak positively regarding this issue, that settles it for me.

However, clearly the Scriptures do NOT speak positively about women being pastors or being in authority over men. It clearly speaks negatively about it.
 

FlyForFun

New Member
Think about yourself. Are you flawed and yet teach your children truth? So in essence parts of you are flawed and yet you can teach truth. Shall your children consider you a false teacher because you do not have all truth and unable to teach all truth?

Consider the flaws of calvinism, arminianism, and dispensationalism? Do you listen to any teacher that believes those isms?


But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us.

(2 Corinthians 4:7)
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Yep, the other men in the room and the Holy Spirit.
False teachers make exactly the same claim. The Holy Spirit gives gifts. Why? Because all men are equipped to teach well? A teacher once said to a class I was in "Just Remember that the Holy Spirit is no substitute for preparation."

Those who have studied well also know when one has not. That is the reason why we must be open to correction from those who know more than we do. That is the reason why some go to seminary and learn from those who have gone before them.

Several years ago my brother in law asked me about some things a pastor said in a church he visited. We both realized that the pastor had preached out of his ignorance and not his study. My brother in law who was not a Christian at the time changed churches and within a few weeks became a Christian after listening to pastor who studied well.

Some find that ignorance does not require any work.

Well ain't that something. I doubt it.
By your own admission you wouldn't know if they did or didn't. If however you were to go to an archives and read some old commentaries you could see for yourself.

Well shucks, I guess they forgot to tell us all that.
If you were to study the history of interpretation you would know about that and how things have progressed since the allegorical approach was so prevalent not too years ago. The way many preachers approach the Bible today is hardly anything like it was 200 years ago. I cannot imagine anyone caught teaching like the dispensationalist C.H. McIntosh did.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
From the book:
The Best of A.T. Robertson
Compiled by Davis S. Dockery
Edited by Timothy and Denise George Foreward by Herschel H. Hobbs

CHAPTER TEN
Preaching and Scholarship, the Inaugural Address to the Faculty, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, October 3, 1890

The relation that scholarship bears to preaching is, I fear, not always understood. For real attainments in scholarship, so far from being a help to preaching, are sometimes supposed to be a positive hindrance. And if a man happens to like books, it is by some people doubted whether he will ever be a successful preacher, or strongly suspected that he will become a bookworm and lose all sympathy with the people and hence all warmth and power in his preaching. Reading Greek and preaching are often supposed to be uncongenial companions. A presbytery was once examining a young minister for ordination and he was asked what he would do if he did not succeed as a preacher. He at once replied that he would try to get a place as theological professor. He evidently thought that played-out preachers were good enough to teach others how to preach.

Is Learning Good for a Preacher?
There exists a half-suppressed feeling among many good people that much learning is not good for a preacher. And this feeling is not always suppressed, but finds expression in various insinuations aimed at educated ministers and the schools they attended. Some people, having heard that "a little learning is a dangerous thing," conclude that much learning is much more so. Hence they would limit the "much" to a very small amount, and so do many preachers. A tender fear is entertained that the young minister will become heretical if he knows too much. And so he may, if he studies along heretical lines. But all learning is not skeptical. There is still such a thing as reverent scholarship. Surely infidelity and rationalism have not absorbed all knowledge. You may even hear that a theological seminary is a very nest of heresy, and that, too, where Calvinism of the straitest sort is taught. But such an objection to theological education may arise from ignorance of the real workings of the institution.

It is even sometimes predicted that the preachers will become too learned--too "high larn't"--if they go to school much, a fear, I am persuaded, based on limited acquaintance with theological students. There is small ground of uneasiness here. Your much learning, my brother, has not made you mad, nor anyone else. Such cases do occur where a man becomes top heavy with sup- posed knowledge, but they are very rare, and it is usually when one is not deep rooted in the faith or is lacking in spiritual power. True knowledge comes so hard that it will serve to keep you humble and all you can digest will not hurt you, provided, of course, that you do not run after knowledge falsely so-called, but seek the real knowledge of God's truth. The schools get over- much credit. Not every preacher that is spoiled, you may be sure, is spoiled by an excess of learning. Do not believe it. If an education gives a man the swell head, he must have a very soft head. It is amazing how little it takes to turn some people's heads.

Will Theological Education Make a "Dry" Preacher?
You sometimes hear it said that a theological education will make the minister "dry." Perhaps it is thought that much learning will make him dull, if not mad. There are many men who never went to school that can be as dry as the most learned. An education will not make a fountain in a desert, and if it does, it will be an artificial one. It will only run when forced. There is certainly nothing in a theological seminary to stop a fountain, if the professors have any religion. A prominent man once admonished a student who was going to a theological seminary as follows: "Don't lose your juice," he said, "when you go to the seminary." He seemed to think a seminary was a drying machine to fry all the life out of a man and leave him all starch and powder. If by "juice" is meant the unction and fervor of a soul set on fire by the Spirit of God, it is hard to see why biblical study should have such an effect. Why can not the Holy Spirit work through a man that has learning as well as through one that has none? Does God put a premium on ignorance in the ministry? We know that He has no use for the pride of learning, but neither does He care for the arrogance of ignorance. Certainly, ignorance and laziness are no recommendations for a preacher. Does a man gain power by boasting that he has no "book learning"? If the Spirit that stirs the soul be in a man, his preaching will not be dry nor barren of results, even if he has tried to learn books. Perhaps what is meant is that the educated preacher often becomes too abstruse and shoots over the heads of the congregation. He is so far above their level, that it is all Greek to them. Now, no one has a right to use strange tongues in the pulpit. It sometimes happens that highflown language comes from the pulpit, but as often from the uneducated as from the educated preacher. And the best educated ministers with the best taste use the simplest language. But many people hold study and simplicity incompatible. A certain church heard that a theological professor and a D.D. was to supply for them for a while. And they had long faces at such a combination coming to preach for them until they were told that though a professor, he could preach. This shows the existence of the feeling.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
The Stereotyped Preacher?
It is gravely feared by some that young ministers will become stereotyped in style, if they go to a theological school. A cut-and-dried preacher made to order out of a "preacher factory" is abhorred and ought to be. But this is hardly a real objection to scholarly ministers. For if a man has so little force of character as to lose his individuality at school, he would anywhere. If a man lapses into mental desuetude and takes everything at second-hand, the school is not to blame. For theological training will not grind him out sermons according to demand without native wit and hard work. Do not expect any amount of training to take the place of brains, work, and the grace of God. In fact, a glib sermon does little good anyhow. It must take root in the heart and life of the preacher, if it is to reach the hearts of other people. If a numbskull comes to the seminary and goes away a numbskull, do not blame the seminary. For some men are hard to teach. Gideon taught the men of Succoth with thorns and briers; for it was the only kind of instruction that would penetrate their obscure consciences. But thorns and briers cannot make preachers or scholars out of some men. A seminary can only work with the material that the churches send, good, bad and indifferent. I noticed a criticism upon our seminary this fall in one of the denomi-national papers to the effect that some of its students had a very poor delivery. If a man will pass through the course in elocution here with a very poor delivery, is it not his fault? Elocution cannot make good speakers out of men with no gifts of speech, nor out of those with gifts if they do not apply themselves. Again, it is insisted that to spend two or three years at a seminary is a waste of time. You can do well enough without seminary training, it is urged. Is anything well enough save the best of which you are capable.? Some good brethren shook their heads when you started to, school, and lamented this waste of time from preaching. A good woman once remonstrated with a young preacher that he could preach well enough without going to the seminary three years. But when he insisted that he must go, she said, "Lor', if you can preach this well now, I just would like to hear you then." She, at any rate, had faith in the power of a seminary course to improve a preacher. Many young men listen to this silly flattery and fail to take a theological course or complete their college work. They even think their friends about half right and that perhaps they are smarter than they at first supposed.
 

saturneptune

New Member
Some find that ignorance does not require any work.

By your own admission you wouldn't know if they did or didn't. If however you were to go to an archives and read some old commentaries you could see for yourself.

If you were to study the history of interpretation you would know about that and how things have progressed since the allegorical approach was so prevalent not too years ago. The way many preachers approach the Bible today is hardly anything like it was 200 years ago. I cannot imagine anyone caught teaching like the dispensationalist C.H. McIntosh did.
Well, you know how it is. Not all of us can be as intelligent as you.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
The Amount of Preparation ...
It all depends on what you want to do. Bottom, in Midsummer Night's Dream, said that extempore speaking was nothing but roaring, and hence he could do that to perfection. Now, if you simply want to roar all your life, you can do that without much sense or religion either. It is right for a man to look high and deep into the mission of his life. And the amount of preparation that is necessary for your life work is not to be decided by the urgency of the work alone. For Christ waited until He was thirty years old before He began His mediatorial work. The demand for ministers is always greater than the supply, and always will be, no doubt. The harvest is always great and white for reaping and the laborers few. There is great need for all who will put in the sickle, but greater need than ever for men that are well equipped and approved of God. No man in these days should cut his preparation shorter than the line of duty indicates.

For the two or three years subtracted from school life may not make up for the loss in power. And power is what is wanted in men today. The apparent loss in time will be more than atoned for by increased momentum and facility for work. The sum of a life work is equal to time plus momentum. It is time and power. I saw this summer in Antwerp women and dogs pulling the carts over the streets. I felt that I had gone back 500 years past the age of steam and electricity. The age compels you to live at high tension. You must learn how to do this with the best results and the least harm to yourselves. If a theological education will increase your power for Christ, is it not your duty to gain that added power? If a high dam will give more power to the mill, then do not begrudge the time that it takes to build it. Never say you are losing time by going to school. You are saving time, buying it up for the future and storing it away. Time used in storing power is not lost. Reverently seek to know, not in conceit, what you can do for God. If you have a high opinion of His service, your own insufficiency will lead you to larger and wiser preparation. So theological education saves time in enabling the pastor to come to his work with improved methods and appliances. A man must work both rapidly and well, if he is to come up to the demands made upon him now. It is a great thing to be able to do well in two hours what used to take you three.
 

saturneptune

New Member
It doesn't take much intelligence to be obedient by studying your Bible. It takes work.

Did Jesus die for you?

That makes number 10. You can see the same answer I would give under the deacon thread when you asked that a 9th time. Until you see the role of the local church in your theology, your posts are meaningless.
 
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