TaliOrlando
New Member
What are your views on this new forms of praising GOD that is bringing so many youth to Christ????
What are the pros and the cons in your view??:wavey:
What are the pros and the cons in your view??:wavey:
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Your views on Christian Rap, Rock and Christian metal???
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
- Start date
this is going to be a heated debate.
(shouldn't this be in the music forum? oh well. it can fit here)
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yes music can stir emotions - whether those be happy, sad - or angry emotions.
but music - for me - doesn't stir spritually. - but the lyrics do.
i vote that if the lyrics are Godly - and biblically sound - im all for whatever kind of music it is.
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(shouldn't this be in the music forum? oh well. it can fit here)
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yes music can stir emotions - whether those be happy, sad - or angry emotions.
but music - for me - doesn't stir spritually. - but the lyrics do.
i vote that if the lyrics are Godly - and biblically sound - im all for whatever kind of music it is.
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The question is this: Is it bringing youth to Christ, or to shake, rattle, and roll? How many are responding under the urging of the Holy Spirit? If you asked them after shaking, rattling, and rolling, what they understand about the security of the Believer, how would they respond? I would not, could not, give a blanket endorsement to rap, rock, and metal.
James_Newman
New Member
I doubt it is bringing many youths to Christ. Anyone here get saved by Rock'n'Roll? Me either. Now I do believe it is bringing many Christian youths to the world.TaliOrlando said:
you speak of opinion. and so do i. we dont have proof.
no-one gets saved by rock and roll - that is logic... oh yah... that's right... nobody studies even what logic is these days...
the Lord saves - christian music has the ability to plant a seed - also to water the seed - but the Lord makes the increase.
OrovilleTim
New Member
I think it really depends on the artist and lyrics. I've heard some artists that I think were doing it because they think its a new market they can make it in after failing in the mainstream. I've heard others (and personally know some) that I've not doubt in their motivation.
It's not all about "reaching" people either. Some is about keeping people accountable, and some is even just something non-conflicting to listen to as an alternative to the secular offerings.
I've a good collection of Christian Hip Hop (and I am not your standard Hip Hop consumer) from groups like Deepspace5, Illtripp, Listener, and others. The one thing I like about all of these, is they challenge and convict.
Some sample lyrics from Illtripp (a Christian Hip Hop act):
One of his lines in the song is about going online to debate Christian topics, while you may have people around you in need that don't even know you exist. Kind of a challenge to do your part. Always comes to mind when I'm tempted to get into a big debate on here
It's not all about "reaching" people either. Some is about keeping people accountable, and some is even just something non-conflicting to listen to as an alternative to the secular offerings.
I've a good collection of Christian Hip Hop (and I am not your standard Hip Hop consumer) from groups like Deepspace5, Illtripp, Listener, and others. The one thing I like about all of these, is they challenge and convict.
Some sample lyrics from Illtripp (a Christian Hip Hop act):
One of his lines in the song is about going online to debate Christian topics, while you may have people around you in need that don't even know you exist. Kind of a challenge to do your part. Always comes to mind when I'm tempted to get into a big debate on here
James_Newman
New Member
I don't find any mandate in the bible to plant seeds with worldly music. I do think that Godly music has its place. But I came out of the world, and not by hearing Christian rock, which by worldly standards is usually rather lame. People don't usually form musical tastes based on the lyrics. Rap is rap, no matter what the subject is. Rock is rock, no matter what the lyrics say. When your son figures out that the rap and rock he is listening to doesn't sound near as good as the stuff spewing out of the low rider next to you at the stop light, he is going to want to listen to that stuff. Worldly music is just a high place that Christians refuse to throw down and it will probably lead to the downfall of the next generation.
James_Newman
New Member
Aint that the truth. It seems like the bar of entry is a lot lower for 'Christian' artists.OrovilleTim said:
My problem isn't with the "style" of music (rock, rap, etc.) but with the content and industry.
Content: Most "contemporary Christian" music is very weak. Some have good things to say, few say it in a strong way. I liked the lyrics that Oroville Tim posted. That's strong stuff. However, contrast that with a current song I hear over the airwaves where a man sings "Jesus, I am so in love with you." Now, are unsaved people in thier target age group going to understand that message, or are they going to think it sounds homosexual?? (I think it sounds homosexual and I know exactly what they're talking about!!)
Industry: Very worldly industry. The industry itself doesn't police itself very well. As someone else mentioned, there are many has-beens that have moved over to the CC music to make a buck. Recently, one of the Back-Street Boys released a "Christian" album. Now, I've only heard one song by him, but it didn't sound very Christian to me. And I know the way he acted on stage, and the things he said to the press while he was in the BackSreet Boys never glorified God. The industry itself has not kept a level of seperation and, IMHO, is quickly headed downward to become exactly what all the neigh-sayers like Roloff and Hyles always said it was.
While I have heard some songs that I think would qualify as appropriate Worship songs in Church, 99% are good only for private lisning, if that.
Content: Most "contemporary Christian" music is very weak. Some have good things to say, few say it in a strong way. I liked the lyrics that Oroville Tim posted. That's strong stuff. However, contrast that with a current song I hear over the airwaves where a man sings "Jesus, I am so in love with you." Now, are unsaved people in thier target age group going to understand that message, or are they going to think it sounds homosexual?? (I think it sounds homosexual and I know exactly what they're talking about!!)
Industry: Very worldly industry. The industry itself doesn't police itself very well. As someone else mentioned, there are many has-beens that have moved over to the CC music to make a buck. Recently, one of the Back-Street Boys released a "Christian" album. Now, I've only heard one song by him, but it didn't sound very Christian to me. And I know the way he acted on stage, and the things he said to the press while he was in the BackSreet Boys never glorified God. The industry itself has not kept a level of seperation and, IMHO, is quickly headed downward to become exactly what all the neigh-sayers like Roloff and Hyles always said it was.
While I have heard some songs that I think would qualify as appropriate Worship songs in Church, 99% are good only for private lisning, if that.
I've always found it interesting that we automatically assume that CCM artists are trying to reach people with their music. I know each artists has a different view of this, but for the most part the CCM industry is entertainment for Christians. Very few non-Christians listen to CCM and CCM is generally not (with some exceptions) broadcast to mainstream audiences.
Maybe the real problem is keeping CCM in its place, so to speak.
Maybe the real problem is keeping CCM in its place, so to speak.
Tom Butler
New Member
There is a difference between Christian entertainment and Christian Worship.
A gospel concert can, with certain songs, produce a spirit of worship in some individuals, but it is not designed to be corporate worship. I enjoy the Gaither Homecoming concerts. I am often lifted up spiritually. But some of their material is plainly designed to be entertaining and would not fit for use in a worship service. When we feel we must entertain during a worship service, we have missed the mark.
Another point: I have little use for Christian rock, rap, hip-hop and CCM. Part of it is theological and ecclesiological, but I have to admit that a large part is the fact that I'm 68 years old and a product of a more traditional worship culture.
I'm typical of the folks of my era who hold this position: I know what I like, I like what I know, and I ain't gonna change my mind.
A gospel concert can, with certain songs, produce a spirit of worship in some individuals, but it is not designed to be corporate worship. I enjoy the Gaither Homecoming concerts. I am often lifted up spiritually. But some of their material is plainly designed to be entertaining and would not fit for use in a worship service. When we feel we must entertain during a worship service, we have missed the mark.
Another point: I have little use for Christian rock, rap, hip-hop and CCM. Part of it is theological and ecclesiological, but I have to admit that a large part is the fact that I'm 68 years old and a product of a more traditional worship culture.
I'm typical of the folks of my era who hold this position: I know what I like, I like what I know, and I ain't gonna change my mind.
OrovilleTim
New Member
Lagardo said:
Exactly. I think Christian consume Christian music. There is some Christian music I really like, and there is a lot of Christian music my family really likes (me, being a musician am more critical of music.) We listen to Air-1 in the car, and I find it nice that we don't have to worry about what comes on. I think it's like other forms of Christian entertainment; the target audience is definitely Christians.
OrovilleTim
New Member
Tom Butler said:
Well, I'm of the opinion that there should be a difference, but there are mass movements afoot in churches to bring "entertainment" into the worship area. Be it music, flashy presentations, or films. That "old" stuff just doesn't encourage growth.
Personally, while I may like some of the stuff on the radio, and some Christian artists, I think they are products to be consumed by Christians so they can listen to something without compromising beliefs (the old "garbage in/garbage out" applies to music and other entertainment.) BUT, my personal opinion is that I don't think it belongs in the worship; no matter how "cool" it makes the church appear. I prefer reverent, spiritual, hymns that can be sung as a heartfelt, earnest, undertaking. It's worked for generations, I don't see why it's not good enough anymore for some people who are striving to strike if from the churches.
Snitzelhoff
New Member
A few things:James_Newman said:
First, what music is "Godly" and what music is "worldly"? I mean, what instruments, rhythms, tempos, and melodies are inherently "worldly"? Is a praise and worship piece played only on guitar "Godly," but made "worldly" by the addition of a drum set? Or do you advocate restoring true ancient Jewish psalms, using their instrumentation? Else, how do you escape the use of "worldly music"?
Secondly, your comment about Christian rock being rather lame is a few years off. The talent that has remained latent in Christian youth has finally found an outlet, and Christian artists typically have talent that is equal (at least) to similar-sounding secular artists.
Finally, your comment about people's musical tastes not being formed on lyrics is simply incorrect. When I was in high school (just a year ago), one of the most common objections to artists I heard was, "Their lyrics are terrible." So, yes, lyrics do hold a very fundamental place in forming musical tastes, whatever the genre of choice, unless you mean in the types who simply follow the masses and eat up whatever is "popular" with a spoon, but those aren't the type of people for whom Christian rock was created, anyway.
Just my thoughts.
Michael
OrovilleTim said:
I'll say it again in this thread...I'm not interested in making extinct great hymns of the faith. We sing them. On any given Wednesday, we'll sing a song written last year, last century, and last millenium...really. I want my bunch to grasp the richness, depth, and grandeur of some of the best music ever written. But, I also believe that there could even today be some of the best music ever written coming into existence. If it points to God, I'm ready to use it.
God's been doing "new things" stylistically for centuries. Four part harmony was once considered vulgar. Some groups objected to any hymns...only psalms were allowed. The organ was villified in its early days in many areas of Christendom. When we try something new, it must point God-ward, and lead others to worship. And...what leads us might not lead another group. We don't sing Crowder's "No One Like You" on Sunday at 10:30. But we might very well sing "Be Thou My Vision" on a Wednesday night. And we introduce new stuff to our old-timers (within the bounds of what they're ready for), and we introduce old stuff to our youngsters (hey, it's new to them!). And praise be to God, folks are coming to Him...on Wednesday nights (among the 150-200 teens we have), on Sunday's contemporary service (300-400), and our traditional service on Sundays (300-400). I'm just pumped watching folks worship God using stuff that's been around for centuries, years, months, and days.
xdisciplex
New Member
James_Newman said:
James, let me ask you a question?
Am I right in supposing you never liked rock or metal?
Because those christians which never liked it are those which say it's bad.
Where in the world do you want to know wether people might be drawn to God by christian rock or christian metal? Have you done a survey among all christians in the USA and asked them wether God spoke to them through christian music? No? Okay, then I suggest you better be careful with such assumption.
God can speak to people through many things. He can use music, movies, books, people. Or do you think God is not capable of this?
Why should the ONLY music which is allowed for christian be lame unplugged music? Could it be because most of the old christian only like lame unplugged music? :smilewinkgrin:
And as soon as they hear an electric guitar they scream "this is satanic".... oh boy...
I think many of the songs which are song in church are simply lame and not even beautiful. There are worship songs which are really great and have a good melody and a good text, but there are worship songs which are boring and not good at all. There are worship songs which I really can't stand, so what? Do you have to love every worship song which is out there simply because it contains the word Jesus? Come on.
xdisciplex
New Member
Oh boy....James_Newman said:
what is this?
Rock is rock? Oh really? :thumbsup:
May I ask you a question? You're using a computer, right? How can you justify this? Do you not know computers are worldy? Oh yes, they are! Computers were not invented by christians. Can you find the word computer in the bible? I can't.
Or what about cars? Cars are cars! Cars are wordly. They are not christian! No real christian must use a car. Or a toothbrush or a vacuum cleaner or a refrigerator or electricity. This is ALL worldly.....
And may I add that you come off pretty arrogant? Do you notice that you're judging ALL christian rap, rock and metal artists? Oh yes, you are. You are basically saying that they are not real christians, that they music is harmful and that it will lead to the downfall of the next generation. I think you have never listened to a christian rock, rap or metal band. This is a shame! There are artists out there which are adorable where I wish I had the same dedication which they have. But you simply think you can judge them. What a shame....
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James_Newman
New Member
xdisciplex said:
I stood in line all night to get tickets to the first Lollapalooza concert headlined by Jane's Addiction. I've repented of that garbage. I don't listen to "Christian Rock" because it can only serve to make me look back to the good ol' days when I was smoking dope and listening to real rock. Christian Rock is simply a high place. Even if you worship God on that altar, sooner or later its going to become a stumbling block for someone. Best to just cast it down before your children go into idolotry like the Israelites did over and over again. But some people won't listen to the example of scripture and have to learn the same lessons over and over again, whatever.