Point number 1 illustrated in the reverse!
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10 Reasons Why Calvinites Are Calvinites
- Thread starter Mark Osgatharp
- Start date
If by saying "Keep on believing your Calvinistic montra" you are refering to our belief that God is soverign in salvation..... That it is he that has made us and not we ourselves..... That he does as he will anong the armies of heaven and the inhabitants of earth.... That none can stay his hand..... That he is the potter and we are the clay.... To make one vessel to honor and another to dishonor.... That he has made all things for himself, even the wicked for the day of evil... That therefore he has mercy on whom he will have mercy and whom he will he hardeneth... Then you are saying to keep on believing in what God has said..... Okay, I will.
King James Bond
New Member
TomMann,
Great post!
johnp,
I agree!
KJB
Great post!
johnp,
I agree!
KJB
Yea!! Are we there yet? Thats it! We're all little mud balls!! He is the potter and we rest in His Hand, His great wisdom to rule in the affairs of men! His grace is sufficient! He doesnt need my help! He chose me, saved me, causes me to persevere!Originally posted by King James Bond:
TomMann,
Great post!
johnp,
I agree!
KJB
God is good!
King James Bond
New Member
2BHizown,
AMEN!
KJB
AMEN!
KJB
Brother James
New Member
Arminianism is the Anti-Gospel. It is 100% opposite to the Gospel taught by Christ, the Apostles, the early Church, the Reformers and the Puritans. Arminianism is a complete series and it logically follows the original error. Anyone who tells you they are a "partial" Arminian or who only believes 1 or more of the Arminian positions is truly a FULL Arminian since there can be no compromise on the points. Arminianism was developed and put forth by the followers of Jacobus Arminius (James Harmenszoon) who was a Jesuit mouthpiece to combat the Reformation.
The 5 points of Arminianism:
Arminians build their belief system on the erroneous idea that the fall of Adam and Eve was not complete. Their intellectual "father" was Pelagius who taught that man had not TOTALLY fallen at the fall, but was left with an untainted and pure "free will" with which he was free to choose God or reject Him. This despite the plain teaching of scripture that NO MAN chooses God, and all have gone astray, and all are in rebellion.
1. Denial of Total Depravity. Arminians believe that man is capable of saving himself by utilizing his logic, reason and will to choose to appropriate the saving Grace and Mercy of Christ. The Bible teaches that without being "quickened" by the Holy Spirit and regenerated first, No man can come to Christ unless he is drawn of the Father.
2. Conditional Election. Through a twisted, convoluted logic, the Arminians believe that God elects people to salvation based on his foreknowledge. So IF God knows that they are going to choose Him, THEN He elects them to salvation. This despite the teaching of the Bible that God choose His elect in HIMSELF from the foundation of the world, and He saved them while they were yet sinners and opposed to Him.
3. Unlimited Atonement. Arminians teach that Jesus Christ died equally and purposefully to save THE WHOLE WORLD. This means that the death that Christ died, in and of itself, was insufficient to save anyone - or else everyone would be saved. Christ came half of the way on the Cross, and the sinner has to come the other half of the way. Christ's death actually saved N
NE, since it is up to sinners to finish their own salvation by "accepting" salvation through some rote prayer.
4. Resistable Grace. Arminians teach that the Grace of Jesus and the wooing of the Holy Spirit are resistable. So some that God wants to save will not be saved, and some sheep will be lost, and some who the Father calls will not come unto Christ.
5. No Perseverance of the Saints. Arminians teach that some people who Christ died for and saved, and who have come to Christ for salvation will ultimately fall away and lose eternal life and go to hell. I cannot tell you how abominable and heretical this belief is.
So... that is Arminianism. Check out the books and keep us up on your progress.
Oh PS... Billy Graham, who you feature on your website pushes and sells the Arminian gospel, even though he has admitted he doesn't believe it. He says that the true Gospel "doesn't sell". He is one of the most committed Arminians in the world, and he is great friends with the Pope and with Romanism.
Your servant in Christ Jesus,
Michael Bunker
This was sent to me by a friend via e-mail. I though I would keep the discussion going with it.
Brother James
The 5 points of Arminianism:
Arminians build their belief system on the erroneous idea that the fall of Adam and Eve was not complete. Their intellectual "father" was Pelagius who taught that man had not TOTALLY fallen at the fall, but was left with an untainted and pure "free will" with which he was free to choose God or reject Him. This despite the plain teaching of scripture that NO MAN chooses God, and all have gone astray, and all are in rebellion.
1. Denial of Total Depravity. Arminians believe that man is capable of saving himself by utilizing his logic, reason and will to choose to appropriate the saving Grace and Mercy of Christ. The Bible teaches that without being "quickened" by the Holy Spirit and regenerated first, No man can come to Christ unless he is drawn of the Father.
2. Conditional Election. Through a twisted, convoluted logic, the Arminians believe that God elects people to salvation based on his foreknowledge. So IF God knows that they are going to choose Him, THEN He elects them to salvation. This despite the teaching of the Bible that God choose His elect in HIMSELF from the foundation of the world, and He saved them while they were yet sinners and opposed to Him.
3. Unlimited Atonement. Arminians teach that Jesus Christ died equally and purposefully to save THE WHOLE WORLD. This means that the death that Christ died, in and of itself, was insufficient to save anyone - or else everyone would be saved. Christ came half of the way on the Cross, and the sinner has to come the other half of the way. Christ's death actually saved N
NE, since it is up to sinners to finish their own salvation by "accepting" salvation through some rote prayer.4. Resistable Grace. Arminians teach that the Grace of Jesus and the wooing of the Holy Spirit are resistable. So some that God wants to save will not be saved, and some sheep will be lost, and some who the Father calls will not come unto Christ.
5. No Perseverance of the Saints. Arminians teach that some people who Christ died for and saved, and who have come to Christ for salvation will ultimately fall away and lose eternal life and go to hell. I cannot tell you how abominable and heretical this belief is.
So... that is Arminianism. Check out the books and keep us up on your progress.
Oh PS... Billy Graham, who you feature on your website pushes and sells the Arminian gospel, even though he has admitted he doesn't believe it. He says that the true Gospel "doesn't sell". He is one of the most committed Arminians in the world, and he is great friends with the Pope and with Romanism.
Your servant in Christ Jesus,
Michael Bunker
This was sent to me by a friend via e-mail. I though I would keep the discussion going with it.
Brother James
King James Bond
New Member
Great job Brother James!
Well done.
KJB
Well done.
KJB
Ray Berrian
New Member
Free Grace has been available under both the O.T. and N.T. as expressed by God through the youngest of Jesus' Apostolate. As the canon is being closed with the Book of Revelation Jesus makes His last statement in Revelation 22:17. Calvin's call was to a Limited Atonement, while Jesus keeps Free Grace available to the 'whosoever will.' But then people, in the teeth of what Jesus says, still say sinners and saints do not have a 'will' to drink of the water of life freely.'
Berrian Th.D.
Calvins' ideas often are a Disgrace while Jesus words are not only filled with Grace but He tells us that His Grace will reach to the 'whosoever will.'
There are no forced converts to Jesus but sinners can be assured that they are welcomed to 'Come.' In fact, Christ says three times--Come!
Berrian Th.D.
Calvins' ideas often are a Disgrace while Jesus words are not only filled with Grace but He tells us that His Grace will reach to the 'whosoever will.'
There are no forced converts to Jesus but sinners can be assured that they are welcomed to 'Come.' In fact, Christ says three times--Come!
Ray Berrian said:
There are no forced converts to Jesus but sinners can be assured that they are welcomed to 'Come.' In fact, Christ says three times--Come!
How can things get so mixed up about the doctrines of grace! No one believes a convert is forced! When Christ touched my heart and said, 'come', I readily ran to Him in gratitude! He forces no one, either 'in' or 'out' of His kindgom! All who come to Him He will in no wise cast out! Problem is that some do not come to HIm, preferring to remain in their sin! Actually Calvins ideas are substantiated with scripture! Some prefer not to believe what they read, unfortunately. They are those we witness to and pray for. You never read where Paul whined about being 'forced' when Christ appeared to him on the Damascus Road. He obeyed with fearful delight, 'Who are you, Lord?'
There are no forced converts to Jesus but sinners can be assured that they are welcomed to 'Come.' In fact, Christ says three times--Come!
How can things get so mixed up about the doctrines of grace! No one believes a convert is forced! When Christ touched my heart and said, 'come', I readily ran to Him in gratitude! He forces no one, either 'in' or 'out' of His kindgom! All who come to Him He will in no wise cast out! Problem is that some do not come to HIm, preferring to remain in their sin! Actually Calvins ideas are substantiated with scripture! Some prefer not to believe what they read, unfortunately. They are those we witness to and pray for. You never read where Paul whined about being 'forced' when Christ appeared to him on the Damascus Road. He obeyed with fearful delight, 'Who are you, Lord?'
I don't understand how a man who claims to be a "Th.D." can be so unaware of what "free grace" and "limited atonement" are!
Every person who believes in limited atonement believes in free grace. God bestows His grace on us freely, with nothing being paid or given by us. That has absolutely nothing at all to do with limited atonement.
"Limited Atonement" simply means that the atonement was not applied to everybody, but only to those who believe, the elect.
To confuse "free grace" with "free will" is not an error a person with any Seminary training at all would make, let alone one who claims to have a doctorate in theology.
Ray Berrian
New Member
Tom Mann,
Try putting all of your verses in your 159th post in context of the whole passage of Scripture. Anyone can prove almost anything by only using a verse here and there.
But then that is why God has given us Greek scholar instead of the 'little boys' who play around the fringes.
Try putting all of your verses in your 159th post in context of the whole passage of Scripture. Anyone can prove almost anything by only using a verse here and there.
But then that is why God has given us Greek scholar instead of the 'little boys' who play around the fringes.
Ray Berrian
New Member
2BHizown,
We all agree that Saul yielded to the call of grace, salvation and his mission to serve the Lord.
Some sinners though under the conviction of the Holy Spirit do resist the powerful grace of Jesus Christ. Explain, Acts 7:51 & John 5:40 where the Jews resisted the experience of salvation and eternal life. This is not your Calvinistic Irresistible Grace but is Resistible Grace and in this setting proves that Arminius was standing faithfully on Biblical truth.
My insight tells me that by being pastor of churches through the years that only the few respond to the calling of the Holy Spirit.
Hell will be full of Christ rejecters.
Berrian
We all agree that Saul yielded to the call of grace, salvation and his mission to serve the Lord.
Some sinners though under the conviction of the Holy Spirit do resist the powerful grace of Jesus Christ. Explain, Acts 7:51 & John 5:40 where the Jews resisted the experience of salvation and eternal life. This is not your Calvinistic Irresistible Grace but is Resistible Grace and in this setting proves that Arminius was standing faithfully on Biblical truth.
My insight tells me that by being pastor of churches through the years that only the few respond to the calling of the Holy Spirit.
Hell will be full of Christ rejecters.
Berrian
Ray Berrian
New Member
T Cassidy,
I was not trying to define your error for all to see. My statements stand as the truth that Jesus last call to sinner was not only to His elect, but was to the 'whosoever will may come.'
Don't be so defensive about what someone way back taught you was the truth and now are unwilling to at least see the other side which is the truth.
Truth often has a way of troubing souls. Keep an open mind and God will guide you into all truth.
I was not trying to define your error for all to see. My statements stand as the truth that Jesus last call to sinner was not only to His elect, but was to the 'whosoever will may come.'
Don't be so defensive about what someone way back taught you was the truth and now are unwilling to at least see the other side which is the truth.
Truth often has a way of troubing souls. Keep an open mind and God will guide you into all truth.
King James Bond
New Member
Such a call does not imply any person whatsoever is able to come.
Just because the call is there.....it does not prove people have any ability to come.
Why you may ask? Because of mans wretched will.
It is not free but rather bound and held in sins sway.
There are other calls to all people.
Never lie! And who has not lied? Just because you are ordered not to lie does not imply you are capable of obedience.
People are commanded not to lust, not to be greedy, no selfishness, humble ourselves, honor parents, love others as our selves, do not envy, do not covet.......no murder even hate in a heart......
Want a list of things we are commanded that we are incapable to do?
Just because God gave ten commandments to people does not mean people have the ability to keep them.
It is the same with the outward calling to come to Christ......they calling may be loud and clear to all people......but people are dead.
You should know these things already.
KJB
Dear Brother Ray,
The Effectual Call is an inward work. How do you see it?
The quickening of a lost sinner is an inward work, likened to circumcision of the heart without hands, how do you see it?
The regeneration of an elect individual is an inward work, how do you see it?
The response to the Gospel is an outward work, you may or may not see it.
Submitting to baptism is an outward work, you may or may not see it.
Faithfully attending worship is an outward work, you may or may not see it.
Finding the true Church is an outward work, you may or may not see it.
Without the inward work you will not see a true outward work.
Without the inward work man may be intellectual convinced of the facts but not be enabled to be converted by repentance.
Bro. Dallas Eaton
The Effectual Call is an inward work. How do you see it?
The quickening of a lost sinner is an inward work, likened to circumcision of the heart without hands, how do you see it?
The regeneration of an elect individual is an inward work, how do you see it?
The response to the Gospel is an outward work, you may or may not see it.
Submitting to baptism is an outward work, you may or may not see it.
Faithfully attending worship is an outward work, you may or may not see it.
Finding the true Church is an outward work, you may or may not see it.
Without the inward work you will not see a true outward work.
Without the inward work man may be intellectual convinced of the facts but not be enabled to be converted by repentance.
Bro. Dallas Eaton
I
ILUVLIGHT
Guest
Hi Bro Dallas;
The idea that belief is a work makes this verse impossible;
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
How can someone believe and not work if belief is a work. This idea contradicts scripture.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike
I disagree; The response to the gospel is the conviction of the heart brought on by the Holy Spirit. Repentance is the response to the conviction. In Order to repent one believes, another result of the conviction. No where in scripture is belief considerd a work.
The idea that belief is a work makes this verse impossible;
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
How can someone believe and not work if belief is a work. This idea contradicts scripture.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike