Can we judge salvation?

[The Scribe]

You made a judgement against anyone who watches certain movies that you think are wrong.

Full of sexual innuendos, indecent women and men, etc, basically things that God hates.

That is what Christianyouth said first.

So, if a movie has nudity and so on in it, Christ would sit with you and watch it?
He knows everything you do anyway.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Romans 8:12-14 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[Amy.G]

We don't have to make up laws or lists. They are already in the Bible.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (KJV)
9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 John 2:15 (KJV)
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

I didn't see anything in that list about watching movies.
Does going to a movie equate to adultery, homosexuality, self mutilatation, theft, covetousness, drunkeness?
Going to see that movie may be not using good judgement, but it doesn't mean one is unsaved.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Is it the will of God that we take pleasure in movies that reveal the flesh? That praise drunkenness and revelry?

Is the Spirit leading us to sin against God by tempting us to be conformed to the ways of the world?

 

[The Scribe]

I didn't see anything in that list about watching movies.
Does going to a movie equate to adultery, homosexuality, self mutilatation, theft, covetousness, drunkeness?
Going to see that movie may be not using good judgement, but it doesn't mean one is unsaved.

If you're looking for the exact words "don't do this" in scripture. Then you won't find "movies are sinful" then a list of what a good movie is.

It's clear what we should and shouldn't do. It seems that most people that attend churches or call themselves Christians today are looking for loopholes and try to justify their sin and everyone else's sin.

A religion of convenience is what most are looking for. Instead of doing what God says they want God to fit their lifestyle and into their schedules.

That's not the way it works.

Exodus 23:7-8 (KJV)
7: Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
8: And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous.

 

[Amy.G]

Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Is it the will of God that we take pleasure in movies that reveal the flesh? That praise drunkenness and revelry?

Is the Spirit leading us to sin against God by tempting us to be conformed to the ways of the world?

Of course not. But even Christians sometimes do things they shouldn't. It doesn't mean they are unsaved. Unless you think that Christians don't sin.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Christians do sin, but they don't continue in sin. And evidence of Salvation is the conviction of sin when we do.

Since christianyouth said it was obvious these people were not convicted, it is obvious they were not saved.

God is not going to let you think sin is ok so that you can continue in sin. When you sin, the Spirit will convict.

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

 

[Joe]

Thank you Jesus that You and You alone are judge!
I could probably find a few things out about you that I think are ungodly and then I could pronounce you UNSAVED.

I didn't read it that way Amy. There wasn't any unrighteous judging going on imo. The difference is not who enjoyed the movie, but whether there was any conviction happening during the parts which are ungodly. IF so, hopefully the maturity process will eventually prevent them from attending that movie again.

It is true you can find things out about people which are ungodly and pronounce them not saved. But what's the point?
Yet when they are participating in something ungodly, or even talking ungodly, wouldn't you think the holy spirit would be nudging them while they are doing so? Sometimes it doesn't happen until later, but it usually happens. When it doesn't occur, then maybe there isn't enough spiritual maturity. Who knows...But to defend bad behavior, whether in the movies or real life, that is wrong. I guess we all do it to some extent though.

We agree that watching the movie doesn't determine who is saved. To defend Pirates of the Carribean though doesn't seem right. It clearly has some ungodly stuff in it which doesn't need defending by Christians. No, it's not as bad as nudity, or movies promoting fornication/adultery, but still.

 

[The Scribe]

God is not "mean". God gives grace and is merciful, but He can also turn people over to a reprobate mind.

Romans 1:24-32 (KJV)
24: Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29: Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Joe]

Possibly, Full of sexual innuendos, indecent women and men, etc, basically things that God hates.

By their fruits they shall be known.

Um Scribe, weren't you defending Christmas Vacation in another thread?

If my memory serves me correctly, isn't National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation much worse than Disney's Pirates of the Carribean? Isn't there a woman stripping half naked in Christmas vacation, and an even worse scene than that?

I saw the first Disney's Pirates of the Carribean movie, and it seemed ok enough for me. I recall a few risque parts of the movie though. Love Johnny Depp

 

[Amy.G]

I didn't read it that way Amy. There wasn't any unrighteous judging going on imo. The difference is not who enjoyed the movie, but whether there was any conviction happening during the parts which are ungodly. IF so, hopefully the maturity process will eventually prevent them from attending that movie again.

It is true you can find things out about people which are ungodly and pronounce them not saved. But what's the point?
Yet when they are participating in something ungodly, or even talking ungodly, wouldn't you think the holy spirit would be nudging them while they are doing so? Sometimes it doesn't happen until later, but it usually happens. When it doesn't occur, then maybe there isn't enough spiritual maturity. Who knows...But to defend bad behavior, whether in the movies or real life, that is wrong. I guess we all do it to some extent though.

We agree that watching the movie doesn't determine who is saved. To defend Pirates of the Carribean though doesn't seem right. It clearly has some ungodly stuff in it which doesn't need defending by Christians. No, it's not as bad as nudity, or movies promoting fornication/adultery, but still.

Joe, here is what Christianyouth said:

We left the movie theater, they were talking about how great a movie it was, the kids parents were saying how great a movie it was, and in that moment, I realized they were lost.

I do not defend the pirates movie or any movie. We do not have the right to judge whether someone is saved or not. When we do, we are putting ourselves in the place of God and that is what Jesus commanded us NOT to do. We can judge behaviors and we can admonish our brothers and sisters in Christ to behave in a Godly manner, but only God has the authority and the right to judge whether or not someone is saved. That is my point.

 

[Joe]

Joe, here is what Christianyouth said:


I do not defend the pirates movie or any movie. We do not have the right to judge whether someone is saved or not. When we do, we are putting ourselves in the place of God and that is what Jesus commanded us NOT to do. We can judge behaviors and we can admonish our brothers and sisters in Christ to behave in a Godly manner, but only God has the authority and the right to judge whether or not someone is saved. That is my point.

Amy we all judge. It just happens. But to defend what is clearly wrong seems much worse than judging someone's salvation. He is hanging around them, so clearly, he is not holding it against his friends.
Of course, if I sit next to people oogling over a movie of some lady stripping then I will get that thought too, they are not saved. It doesn't mean I am judging, it means I am shocked by it. It's human.
But often later, I don't recall I had judged their salvation and again believe they are saved

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Joe, here is what Christianyouth said:


I do not defend the pirates movie or any movie. We do not have the right to judge whether someone is saved or not. When we do, we are putting ourselves in the place of God and that is what Jesus commanded us NOT to do. We can judge behaviors and we can admonish our brothers and sisters in Christ to behave in a Godly manner, but only God has the authority and the right to judge whether or not someone is saved. That is my point.

As I said, God's Word has already judged that person. We are told to judge righteous judgment. If that person takes pleasure in unrighteous movies, God's Word says the love of God is not in them.

We are not judging them unsaved, God's Word has already done that. We are just revealing what the Word says they are.

 

[Joe]

As I said, God's Word has already judged that person. We are told to judge righteous judgment. If that person takes pleasure in unrighteous movies, God's Word says the love of God is not in them.

We are not judging them unsaved, God's Word has already done that. We are just revealing what the Word says they are.

I know some feel that his blood only covers certain sins, and some believe it covers all sins. I think we can all agree that watching and enjoying this pirate movie falls under Christ's shed blood for all.

 

[The Scribe]

Um Scribe, weren't you defending Christmas Vacation in another thread?

Nope, I was telling you that you were judging others and playing with condoms.

Hey, now. Aren't you the guy who was blowing up condoms and playing with them with your son? Shame, shame.

 

[The Scribe]

I know some feel that his blood only covers certain sins, and some believe it covers all sins. I think we can all agree that watching and enjoying this pirate movie falls under Christ's shed blood for all.

You still have to ask for forgiveness for the sins you commit after you're saved. If you're not convicted of sin how are you saved?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Christ did not shed His blood to give us license to sin. God's Holy Spirit did not tell Paul to pen the words, 'wherefore come out from among them and be ye separate and I will receive you saith the Lord' just to hear Himself talk.

We are not to act like the world, not to enjoy sin. If we do, the Word of God declares us to be without His love... unsaved.

 

[Rippon]

As I said, God's Word has already judged that person. We are told to judge righteous judgment. If that person takes pleasure in unrighteous movies, God's Word says the love of God is not in them.

We are not judging them unsaved, God's Word has already done that. We are just revealing what the Word says they are.

The pronouncements of SFIC are usually without merit . He has said I teach another gospel since I believe in particular redemption which falls under the condemnation of Galatians 1:8,9 ( in his mind ). He thinks I am adding to the Bible because I think that the epistles of Peter were written to believers .

So his discerment is severely lacking when it comes to making calls as to the salvation of any given soul .

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Since Christ's blood was shed for all mankind, Rippon, it is not my discernment that is lacking.

 

[The Scribe]

The pronouncements of SFIC are usually without merit . He has said I teach another gospel since I believe in particular redemption which falls under the condemnation of Galatians 1:8,9 ( in his mind ). He thinks I am adding to the Bible because I think that the epistles of Peter were written to believers .

So his discerment is severely lacking when it comes to making calls as to the salvation of any given soul .

Where are they without merit? How can you teach another Gospel and be correct?

Reformed Baptist, I came to Calvinistic convictions.