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Can we judge salvation?
- Thread starter christianyouth
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This thread is absolutely ridiculous...
To judge someone's salvation soley on the fact they seen and enjoyed Pirates 2, is abominable!
I liked the movie...
So there you go SFIC.. go ahead and call me unsaved...
Your pride is a sin too...
To take pride in yourself that you set your seat in God's throne is wrong!!!
God can only judge whether someone is saved....
To mis-quote a presidential candidate..
I know God,
And you, sir, are not God!
To question another person's salvation on this board is a bannable offense... And if I see anymore, I am hitting the report key.
It must be nice to be God.
To judge someone's salvation soley on the fact they seen and enjoyed Pirates 2, is abominable!
I liked the movie...
So there you go SFIC.. go ahead and call me unsaved...
Your pride is a sin too...
To take pride in yourself that you set your seat in God's throne is wrong!!!
God can only judge whether someone is saved....
To mis-quote a presidential candidate..
I know God,
And you, sir, are not God!
To question another person's salvation on this board is a bannable offense... And if I see anymore, I am hitting the report key.
It must be nice to be God.
The Scribe
New Member
tinytim said:To question another person's salvation on this board is a bannable .
Then why hasn't this thread been closed by now?
I believe it's time.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
tim,
I am so sorry you do not agree that the Word of God says the one who loves the world and the things of the world have not the love of God.
Apparently your manner of discerning is lacking too. I am not a proud man... not in the least. And those who truly know me will attest to that.
As to sitting in God's throne, what a silly accusation! I do not sit in His throne, but I do obey His command to preach His Word.
I am so sorry you do not agree that the Word of God says the one who loves the world and the things of the world have not the love of God.
Apparently your manner of discerning is lacking too. I am not a proud man... not in the least. And those who truly know me will attest to that.
As to sitting in God's throne, what a silly accusation! I do not sit in His throne, but I do obey His command to preach His Word.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
and I did not say I question someone's salvation. What I said is God's Word has already judged them to be unsaved if there is no conviction for sin.
The Scribe said:Where are they without merit? How can you teach another Gospel and be correct ?
I do not teach another gospel ! That's what SFIC has charged me with . I hold to my beliefs because of the weight of scriptural support . That's the point . SFIC makes his edicts and proclaims that Calvinists believe in another Gospel -- therefore we are lost or apostates . So Calvin , Owen , Gill , Whitefield , Spurgeon , Warfield , Dr. L-J and countless others are reprobates in his mind .
Alex Quackenbush
New Member
Nothing like a Moderator wanna be.The Scribe said:Then why hasn't this thread been closed by now?
I believe it's time.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Paul and John were right. Christ came to save sinners. Christ shed His blood for the sins of the whole world. Not just certain people in the world, but the whole world.Rippon said:I do not teach another gospel ! That's what SFIC has charged me with . I hold to my beliefs because of the weight of scriptural support . That's the point . SFIC makes his edicts and proclaims that Calvinists believe in another Gospel -- therefore we are lost or apostates . So Calvin , Owen , Gill , Whitefield , Spurgeon , Warfield , Dr. L-J and countless others are reprobates in his mind .
It is amazing how people can change the word all to mean some. It is amazing how some will change the word whole to mean part.
Christ said He would draw ALL men, not some, unto Himself. I choose to believe Christ over any that want to say He does not draw ALL, but some.
And after only 312 posts, no less. I have been a member of the Baptist Board almost exactly as long as The Scribe, and have over 5K posts, which happen to be more than several moderators (including two on this forum), FTR, and I personally have never been a Moderator "wannabe", by any stretch.Alex Quackenbush said:Nothing like a Moderator wanna be.
But I do feel free to cite and quote the publicly available BB rules, that all of us agreed to, including the Administrators and Moderators, when joining the Baptist Board.
"If the shoe fits, 'Wear it'!"
In other words.
[Edited to correct this wording!]
I have more posts publically listed than ONE other on this particular forum.
However, I have 'lost' at least three hundred or so, in some BB reformatting, so might have more than one other, or some other Moderators and/or Administrators may have 'lost' far more than I 'lost', so as to actually have several more than I have, that are listed publically. Sorry, for what might have been a misleading statement.
Ed
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Alex Quackenbush
New Member
I concur Ed. ThanksEdSutton said:And after only 312 posts, no less. I have been a member of the Baptist Board almost exactly as long as The Scribe, and have over 5K posts, which happen to be more than several moderators, FTR, and I personally have never been a Moderator "wannabe", by any stretch.
But I do feel free to cite and quote the publicly available BB rules, that all of us agreed to, including the Administrators and Moderators, when joining the Baptist Board.
"If the shoe fits, 'Wear it'!"
In other words.
Ed
So report it, in accordance with the procedure.The Scribe said:Then why hasn't this thread been closed by now?
I believe it's time.
Ed
Brother Bob
New Member
Well, I don't judge anyone worthy or unworthy for Heaven, because I do not have the record book. I know who does though, and if you want eternal life, I suggest you go to Him in Prayer, and have your name added to His book of Life.
According to some on here if you see someone in the very act of a terrible sin, does not mean that he is not saved. I believe that some on this thread have said that very thing. I was amazed when they said it, but they did. They said a person would have to be a habitual terrible sinner, to be lost. I sure wish I had all those quotes when we were discussing about "can a Christian commit terrible sins"?
There is an old saying, "look in the mirror" first, if you become perfect, then maybe you could do the work of God and go ahead and get this judging over with, so when the Lord comes, He won't have so much work to do.
BBob,
According to some on here if you see someone in the very act of a terrible sin, does not mean that he is not saved. I believe that some on this thread have said that very thing. I was amazed when they said it, but they did. They said a person would have to be a habitual terrible sinner, to be lost. I sure wish I had all those quotes when we were discussing about "can a Christian commit terrible sins"?
There is an old saying, "look in the mirror" first, if you become perfect, then maybe you could do the work of God and go ahead and get this judging over with, so when the Lord comes, He won't have so much work to do.
BBob,
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standingfirminChrist
New Member
His Word has already judged who is and isn't saved. Doesn't anybody believe His Word any more?
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
1 John 2:15-16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
If you want to be part of the world, God's Word declares you at enmity with God and the love of the Father is not in you. No man can serve two masters. God is a jealous God and will have no other gods before Him.
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
1 John 2:15-16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
If you want to be part of the world, God's Word declares you at enmity with God and the love of the Father is not in you. No man can serve two masters. God is a jealous God and will have no other gods before Him.
I would add after reading all thirteen pages plus of the thread, that it appears that at least four believe you can know, and probably for sure, whether or not one is saved, from the 'outside'. I find that dubious, at best, save for the Lord's determination, not ours.
I agree that we should have a good testimony, for Scripture definitely declares, in many places, that there are ways in which we should walk, and what should be our conduct, once we are saved.
But the continued misuse, out of context use, and misapplication of Matthew 7:18-20, about 'knowing (false teachers) by their fruit' does not happen to be one of those places.
And BTW, does not Scripture say that the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment, "when He is come"? I thought He already HAD come.
Are some of us as believers, 'still waiting', or rather, like the twelve, or so, disciples from Ephesus, 'have not even heard that there is any such thing AS the Holy Spirit'??
Ed
I agree that we should have a good testimony, for Scripture definitely declares, in many places, that there are ways in which we should walk, and what should be our conduct, once we are saved.
But the continued misuse, out of context use, and misapplication of Matthew 7:18-20, about 'knowing (false teachers) by their fruit' does not happen to be one of those places.
And BTW, does not Scripture say that the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment, "when He is come"? I thought He already HAD come.
Are some of us as believers, 'still waiting', or rather, like the twelve, or so, disciples from Ephesus, 'have not even heard that there is any such thing AS the Holy Spirit'??
Ed
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Brother Bob
New Member
standingfirminChrist said:His Word has already judged who is and isn't saved. Doesn't anybody believe His Word any more?
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
1 John 2:15-16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
If you want to be part of the world, God's Word declares you at enmity with God and the love of the Father is not in you. No man can serve two masters. God is a jealous God and will have no other gods before Him.
Sfic; I think you are a truthful man. Are you one of those who says a Christian can commit adultery and still be saved? If you are one of them, then are you saying that a "good tree" can indeed bring forth corrupt fruit???
BBob,
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Bob,
Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Who am I to argue that He is wrong? His Word is truth. And it is only through accepting and walking in His Word that we know the Truth.
Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Who am I to argue that He is wrong? His Word is truth. And it is only through accepting and walking in His Word that we know the Truth.
Brother Bob
New Member
Yes, that was my argument before on another thread we had earlier about Christians sinning. The sin we were discussing was adultery and if I am not mistaken, you stated that a Christian could indeed fall in the gripes of satan and commit adultery, but if he continued to do so, then he was not saved, but if it was only one time of committing adultery, that he could still be saved?? Did you not say that before??standingfirminChrist said:Bob,
Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Who am I to argue that He is wrong? His Word is truth. And it is only through accepting and walking in His Word that we know the Truth.
BBob,
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Bob, if we are led by the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts fo the flesh.
Something very interesting about that verse. The Spirit is leading. Which means, if we truly are saved, the Spirit will tell us what we purpose in our hearts is either good or evil... at the time we purpose it.
Notice God tried to convict Cain before he killed Abel? but Cain allowed his flesh to dieobey God.
Am I saying Cain was saved? No, but it does show that God warns us.
Paul sinned after his Damascus Road experience. Does that mean that Paul was not really saved? I don't think so. It shows that the flesh is weak. It is when that fruit remains on the tree that shows whether the tree is bad or not.
If you watched this movie in question, Bob. Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest where women's costumes allowed their breasts to half hang out, where jewelry adorned the breasts in some costume bringing attention to them, where women talked of 'having men', and you told me that there was nothing wrong with that movie; I would have to say that you were bearing fruit unbecoming a child of God.
How can I say that? By repeating the Word of God...
1 John 2:15-16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Can a Christian fall in the mud? Yes. Will that Christian stay in the mud? No. The Spirit will convict. God will chasten whom He loves.
If that one dies in the act of that which God determines sin or abomination, God's Word has judged that one to be bearing evil fruit. Can I declare different?
Something very interesting about that verse. The Spirit is leading. Which means, if we truly are saved, the Spirit will tell us what we purpose in our hearts is either good or evil... at the time we purpose it.
Notice God tried to convict Cain before he killed Abel? but Cain allowed his flesh to dieobey God.
Am I saying Cain was saved? No, but it does show that God warns us.
Paul sinned after his Damascus Road experience. Does that mean that Paul was not really saved? I don't think so. It shows that the flesh is weak. It is when that fruit remains on the tree that shows whether the tree is bad or not.
If you watched this movie in question, Bob. Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest where women's costumes allowed their breasts to half hang out, where jewelry adorned the breasts in some costume bringing attention to them, where women talked of 'having men', and you told me that there was nothing wrong with that movie; I would have to say that you were bearing fruit unbecoming a child of God.
How can I say that? By repeating the Word of God...
1 John 2:15-16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Can a Christian fall in the mud? Yes. Will that Christian stay in the mud? No. The Spirit will convict. God will chasten whom He loves.
If that one dies in the act of that which God determines sin or abomination, God's Word has judged that one to be bearing evil fruit. Can I declare different?
standingfirminChrist said:If that person takes pleasure in unrighteous movies, God's Word says the love of God is not in them.
I'm not defending bad movies...but God's Word doesn't say anything about movies.
standingfirminChrist said:We are not judging them unsaved, God's Word has already done that. We are just revealing what the Word says they are.
Yes, you are judging them unsaved. Quit being disingenuous.
standingfirminChrist said:If that one dies in the act of that which God determines sin or abomination, God's Word has judged that one to be bearing evil fruit. Can I declare different?
Didn't know you were Catholic. Last rites, anyone?
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