Charles spurgeon on roman catholicism: “a vast mountain of rubbish covering the truth

[BobRyan]

Jamieson, Fausset, Brown

Col 2:16

16. therefore--because ye are complete in Christ, and God in Him has dispensed with all subordinate means as essential to acceptance with Him.
meat . . . drink--Greek, "eating . . . drinking" (Ro 14:1-17). Pay no regard to any one who sits in judgment on you as to legal observances in respect to foods.
holyday--a feast yearly. Compare the three, 1Ch 23:31.
new moon--monthly.
the sabbath--Omit "THE," which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Ga 4:10). "SABBATHS" (not "the sabbaths") of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Le 23:32, 37-39).

The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Le 23:38 expressly distinguished "the sabbath of the Lord" from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb 4:9, "rests," Greek, "keeping of sabbath" (Isa 66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Ro 13:8-10).


J-F-B
Gen 2:3 –
3. blessed and sanctified the seventh day--a peculiar distinction put upon it above the other six days, and showing it was devoted to sacred purposes. The institution of the Sabbath is as old as creation, giving rise to that weekly division of time which prevailed in the earliest ages. It is a wise and beneficent law, affording that regular interval of rest which the physical nature of man and the animals employed in his service requires, and the neglect of which brings both to premature decay. Moreover, it secures an appointed season for religious worship, and if it was necessary in a state of primeval innocence, how much more so now, when mankind has a strong tendency to forget God and His claims?
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=002

Adam Clarke on Gen 2:3

Verse 3. And God blessed the seventh day
The original word barach, which is generally rendered to bless, has a very extensive meaning. It is frequently used in Scripture in the sense of speaking good of or to a person; and hence literally and properly rendered by the Septuagint ευλογησεν, from ευ, good or well, and λεγω, I speak. So God has spoken well of the Sabbath, and good to them who conscientiously observe it. Blessing is applied both to God and man: when God is said to bless, we generally understand by the expression that he communicates some good; but when man is said to bless God, we surely cannot imagine that he bestows any gifts or confers any benefit on his Maker. When God is said to bless, either in the Old or New Testament, it signifies his speaking good TO man; and this comprises the whole of his exceeding great and precious promises. And when man is said to bless God, it ever implies that he speaks good OF him, for the giving and fulfilment of his promises. This observation will be of general use in considering the various places where the word occurs in the sacred writings. Reader, God blesses thee when by his promises he speaks good TO thee; and thou dost bless him when, from a consciousness of his kindness to thy body and soul, thou art thankful to him, and speakest good OF his name.
Because that in it he had rested
shabath, he rested; hence Sabbath, the name of the seventh day, signifying a day of rest-rest to the body from labour and toil, and rest to the soul from all worldly care and anxieties. He who labours with his mind by worldly schemes and plans on the Sabbath day is as culpable as he who labours with his hands in his accustomed calling. It is by the authority of God that the Sabbath is set apart for rest and religious purposes, as the six days of the week are appointed for labour. How wise is this provision! It is essentially necessary, not only to the body of man, but to all the animals employed in his service: take this away and the labour is too great, both man and beast would fail under it. Without this consecrated day religion itself would fail, and the human mind, becoming sensualized, would soon forget its origin and end. Even as a political regulation, it is one of the wisest and most beneficent in its effects of any ever instituted. Those who habitually disregard its moral obligation are, to a man, not only good for nothing, but are wretched in themselves, a curse to society, and often end their lives miserably. See Clarke on Exodus 20:8.; "Ex 23:12"; "Ex 24:16"; and See Clarke on Exodus 31:13.; to which the reader is particularly desired to refer.
As God formed both the mind and body of man on principles of activity, so he assigned him proper employment; and it is his decree that the mind shall improve by exercise, and the body find increase of vigour and health in honest labour. He who idles away his time in the six days is equally culpable in the sight of God as he who works on the seventh. The idle person is ordinarily clothed with rags, and the Sabbath-breakers frequently come to an ignominions death. Reader, beware.

 

[David Lamb]

Then of course - there is C.H Spurgeon

Bob, are you saying that because Spurgeon, Moody and Pink used the word "Sabbath", they must have been "Seventh Day"?

It may just be that I have misunderstood you, but if you did mean that, it seems you are mistaken. Spurgeon, in his commentary on the Psalms, "The Treasury of David", says in the course of commenting on Psalm 118.24 (my emphasis):

We observe the Lord’s day as henceforth our true Sabbath, a day made and ordained of God, for the perpetual remembrance of the achievements of our Redeemer. Whenever the soft Sabbath light of the first day of the week breaks upon the earth, let us sing,
"This is the day the Lord hath made,
He calls the hours his own;
Let heaven rejoice, let earth be glad,
And praise surround the throne."
​

 

[BobRyan]

So why is the Sabbath a topic on a Catholic doctrines thread?

Well we saw what Melanchthon said - how about the RCC itself?

The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that

changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".

page 243

"

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243.))

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

Tyndale explaines how fully man-made tradition trumps the Word of God - Placing man as the Mark 2:27 "Lord of the Sabbath"

William Tyndale: "we be lords over the Sabbath; we may change it for Monday or any other day, as we see need, or have two every week, if one is not enough to teach the people."

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, are you saying that because Spurgeon, Moody and Pink used the word "Sabbath", they must have been "Seventh Day"?

I am saying that the force of the argument they make is explicitly centered on the continuing validity of the Ten Commandments and especially the 4th commandment - the Sabbath commandment.

How one chooses to apply the Mark 7 method of "edit that commandment according to tradition" is a different matter.

But the arguments themselves are applicable to the commandment whether you choose to edit God's Word or not. In their case they may be choosing to edit while applying the force of their 4th commandment argument. So we then notice that they do NOT say "because we edit the 4th commandment from the way God gave it - THEN the 4th commandment is still valid and here are some arguments for keeping it." By nicely sidestepping their own man-made-tradition for editing God's Word - they then are free to apply the full force of their argument from the language of the commandment itself - from the fact of the 4th commandment itself. (Hence when Spurgeon answers the question about which is the Sabbath Commandment - he quotes verbatim from the 4th commandment text.) An argument that I find even more forceful and compelling if you do not Edit the Word of God.

In my case - I choose not to edit God's Word. The result is that the logic in the arguments they make is even more compelling when applied to an unedited Word of God!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Dr. Walter]

Then of course - there is C.H Spurgeon

Spurgeon, A.W. Pink and Moody all believed in the Sabbath just as I do - They believed the Lord's Day was Sunday. Looks like you would research your quotes before recklessly quoting and thus perverting the positions of these men!

 

[Dr. Walter]

Then of course there are the reformers on the subject of Sabbath

The Augsburg Confession by Philip Melanchthon (1530)​

In 1530, Charles V, Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, called together the princes and cities of his german territories in a Diet at Augsburg. He sought unity among them to fend off the attacks of Turkish armies in Eastern Austria. He called upon the Lutheran nobility to explain their religious convictions, with the hope that the controversy swirling around the challange of the Reformation might be resolved. To this end, Philip Melanchthon, a close friend of Martin Luther and a Professor of New Testament at Wittenberg University, was called upon to draft a common confession for the Lutheran Lords and Free Territories. The resulting document, the Augsburg Confession was presented to the emperor on June 25, 1530. (This is from Article XXVIII: Of Ecclesiastical Power or The Power of Bishops

Funny! Anyone who knows and has read the ante-nicene Fathers knows Melanchton didn't know what he was talking about. It seems that Roman Catholics and followers of Ellen G. White are the only ones willfully ignorant of history.

The only thing Constantine did was make law what was already universally practiced among Christians. He made it law because the heathen within his empire worshipped the gods of the mystery religions whose names are associated with the days of the week like the "Saturn" day god and the "Sun" day God as well as the other five.

Ignatius says about A.D. 70 – “Let every one who loves Christ, keep holy the Lord’s Day, the queen of days, the resurrection day, the highest of all days.”

Ireneus, Bishop of Lyons, disciple of Polycarp says, “On the Lord’s Day, every one of us Christians keep the Sabbath.”


Barnabas in about A.D. 120 says, “We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead”


Justin Martyr in about A.D. 140 says, “But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because Jesus Christ, our Savior, on the same day rose again from the dead.”


Theopolis in A.D. 167 says, “Both custom and reason challenge from us that we should honor the Lord’s Day, seeing it was that day, our Lord Jesus Christ, completed the resurrection from the dead.”

Dionysius in A.D. 170 says, “We passed this holy Lord’s Day in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition.”

Dynidions in A.D. 170 says, “We Celebrate only the Lord’s Day.”
Bardesanes in A.D. 180 says, “On one day, the first day of the week, we assemble ourselves together.”

Clement in A.D. 192 says that a Christian “According to the commandment of the gospel, observes the Lord’s Day, thereby glorifying the resurrection.”
Clement of Alexandria says in A.D. 194, “He, in fulfillment of the precept, according to the gospel, keeps the Lord’s Day, glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself.”

Tertullian in A.D. 200 says, “We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradiction to those who call this day their Sabbath.”

Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage in A.D. 250 says, “The eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, is the Lord’s Day.”

The Apostolical Constitution says in A.D. 250, “On the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently.”

Anatolius in about A.D. 270 says, “The solemn festival of the resurrection of the Lord can only be celebrated on the Lord’s Day.”

Anatolius Bishop of Laodicea in Asia Minor in A.D. 270 says, “Our regard for the Lord’s resurrection which took place on the Lord’s Day will lead us to celebrate it.”

Victorinus in A.D. 300 says, “On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously that on the Lord’s Day we may go forth to our brad with giving of thanks, lest we should appear to observe any other Sabbath with the Jewish, which Sabbath He in His body abolished.”

Peter, Bishop of Alexanderia in A.D. 306 says, “But the Lord’s Day we celebrate as a day of joy because on it he rose again.”

John the Beloved in A.D. 96 says, “I was in the spirit on the Lord’s Day.” – Rev. 1:10

Luke in about A.D. 60 says, “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them.” – Acts 20:7

Mosheim, in Volume one, page 45 says, “In the first century all Christians were unanimous in the setting apart the first day of the week on which the Savior arose from the dead, for the solemn celebration of public worship; and it was observed universally as appears from the united testimony of the most credible writers.”

 

[BobRyan]

Spurgeon said -

"Money gained on Sabbath-day is a loss, I dare to say. No blessing can come with that which comes to us, on the devil’s back, by our willful disobedience of God’s law. The loss of health by neglect of rest, and the loss of soul by neglect of hearing the gospel, soon turn all seeming profit into real loss." - C.H. Spurgeon
"Salt Cellars": Salt Cellars, C.H. Spurgeon (Vol. 2 M-Z)

FROM: CHARLES SPURGEON'S CATECHISM

(WHAT IS TO BE TAUGHT TO CHILDREN):

49 Q Which is the fourth commandment?

A The fourth commandment is, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

50 Q What is required in the fourth commandment?

A The fourth commandment requires the keeping holy to God such set times as he has appointed in his Word, expressly one whole day in seven, to be a holy Sabbath to himself (Le 19:30 De 5:12).

51 Q How is the Sabbath to be sanctified?

A The Sabbath is to be sanctified by a holy resting all that day, even from such worldly employments and recreations as are lawful on other days (Le 23:3), and spending the whole time in the public and private exercises of God's worship (Ps 92:1,2 Isa 58:13,14), except so much as is taken up in the works of necessity and mercy (Mt 12:11,12).

"...the reason why people become Hyper-Calvinists and Antinomians, is because some, who profess to be Calvinists, often keep back part of the truth, and do not, as Paul did, "declare all the counsel of God"; they select certain parts of Scripture, where their own particular views are taught, and pass by other aspects of God's truth. Such preachers as John Newton, and in later times, your own Christmas Evans, were men who preached the whole truth of God; they kept back nothing that God has revealed; and, as the result of their preaching, Antinomianism could not find a foot-hold anywhere." (Charles Spurgeon, Gospel of Sovereign Grace).

"It is to be feared that some zealous brethren have preached the doctrine of justification by faith not only so boldly and so plainly, but also so baldly and so out of all connection with other truth, that they have led men into presumptuous confidences, and have appeared to lend their countenance to a species of Antinomianism very much to be dreaded. From a dead, fruitless, inoperative faith we may earnestly pray, "Good Lord, deliver us," yet may we be unconsciously, fostering it." (Charles Spurgeon, Faith and Regeneration)

Spurgeon, A.W. Pink and Moody all believed in the Sabbath just as I do

Hmmm -- a review of Walter's posts on this thread is in order so we can see just how closely Walter's posts line up with that statement above by Spurgeon.

Here the trashing of God's Seventh-day that we have come to expect from Walter -

...

Seventh dayism brings the soul back under the bondage of the Old Covenant as it is the sign of the Old Covenant:

“But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My Sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations.” Ex. 31:13; Ezek. 20:12, 19-21.


and thus belongs to the Law covenant which God has abolished (Col. 2:14-16).

Gal 3:10. “But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days [Sabbath and Feast Days] and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.” Gal. 4:9-11. “Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—Col. 2:16.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Dr. Walter]

Charles Spurgeon said, "I am no preacher of the old legal Sabbath. I am a preacher of the Gospel. The Sabbath of the Jew is to him a task; the Lord's Day of the Christian, the first day of the week, is to him a joy, a day of rest, of peace, and of thanksgiving. And if you Christian men can earnestly drive away all distractions, so that you can really rest today, it will be good for your bodies, good for your souls, good mentally, good spiritually, good temporally, and good eternally." - Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol. 7, p. 580.

Spurgeon, Moody and Pink interpreted the fourth commandment just as I do. They rejected the idea that it referred to the seventh day "of the week" and rejected the Jewish observation on the seventh day "of the week." Instead they saw it as the seventh day after six working days irregardless of what day "of the week" it might or might not fall on.

Spurgeon: "expressly one whole day in seven, to be a holy Sabbath to himself (Le 19:30 De 5:12)."


However, they all agreed that the Old Testament predicted and the New Testament established it on the first day "of the week" for Christians under the New Covenant and rejected the Jewish observation.

Hmmm -- a review of Walter's posts on this thread is in order so we can see just how closely Walter's posts line up with that statement above by Spurgeon.

Here the trashing of God's Seventh-day that we have come to expect from Walter -

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Bob, are you saying that because Spurgeon, Moody and Pink used the word "Sabbath", they must have been "Seventh Day"?

It may just be that I have misunderstood you, but if you did mean that, it seems you are mistaken. Spurgeon, in his commentary on the Psalms, "The Treasury of David", says in the course of commenting on Psalm 118.24 (my emphasis):

We observe the Lord’s day as henceforth our true Sabbath, a day made and ordained of God, for the perpetual remembrance of the achievements of our Redeemer. Whenever the soft Sabbath light of the first day of the week breaks upon the earth, let us sing,
"This is the day the Lord hath made,
He calls the hours his own;
Let heaven rejoice, let earth be glad,
And praise surround the throne."
​

GE:

David Lamb, another beautiful observation made in a beautiful spirit.

Yes, Bob Ryan is wrong, but he is also, right. I cannot understand how these great men of God, said what they said, but could not see, the dichotomy of what they said. All I can say is that God has a time for everything He determined SHALL COME TO PASS. WHY HAD THE WORLD TO WAIT FIFTEEN HUNDRED YEARS FOR THE REFORMATION? Why did the Church of Christ ever become the mother of harlots? Because in the end IT MUST WORK OUT TO THE GREATER GLORY OF GOD!

And I believe it with all my heart with regard to the ENIGMATIC HISTORY of the "Sabbath : OF THE LORD GOD".

God cannot be against Himself; God could change if He willed because He is omnipotent; but because God is FAITHFUL, He chose NOT to change, but rather to send Christ to PROVE HE WOULD NOT CHANGE, EVER, FOR GOD IS LOVE!

Not in the slightest would God ever change, we may NOW believe it without doubt --- BECAUSE OF CHRIST.

So never try, dear Dr Walter, tell a simple man like Gerhard Ebersoehn, God changed. I am TOO SIMPLE to ever believe you or all the hosts of learned, great, and yes, even Godly, men. God did not change; He did not change OWNERSHIP. Like God NEVER changed ownership of one single of his own, God never changed ownership of ANY of his creating and object of love. He would never exchange that which HE declared "MY HOLY DAY" for what MEN declared 'holy'. And his LORDSHIP of "the Lord's Day" God in Christ and through Christ shall most jealously GUARD with all his MIGHT --- EXACTLY WHICH GOD DID, "WHEN, RAISING CHRIST FROM THE DEAD", "SABBATH'S", "HE EXALTED HIM AND SET HIM AT HIS OWN RIGHT HAND IN HEAVENLY MAJESTY" --- “ABSOLUTELY ON THE SABBATH”, "THE SEVENTH DAY GOD THUS CONCERNING DID SPEAK" --- "AT SUNDRY TIMES BEFORE". This same "GOD, WHO, in these LAST days, hath spoken unto US, BY HIS SON".

This is my, FULL, Sabbath-doctrine, to which I shall hold, so help my God, for ever in the face of all adversity and hate toward God and his Holy Sanctified Lord's Day : 'The Lord's Day' by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead "In the Sabbath Day's fullness". "And God the Seventh Day from ALL HIS WORKS, RESTED."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Charles Spurgeon said, "I am no preacher of the old legal Sabbath. I am a preacher of the Gospel. The Sabbath of the Jew is to him a task; the Lord's Day of the Christian, the first day of the week, is to him a joy, a day of rest, of peace, and of thanksgiving. And if you Christian men can earnestly drive away all distractions, so that you can really rest today, it will be good for your bodies, good for your souls, good mentally, good spiritually, good temporally, and good eternally." - Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol. 7, p. 580................

GE:

You have said what you said, well! You and Spurgeon, have said what is not true, even better. You are masters of language; greater artists with the English language; while I am, quote, a “backbush rhetoric” ‘boslanster’. But no matter how fluent you or I might be in any language, the plain, “Thus saith the LORD” is enough to dispel everything either of us might wish to say which IS NOT TRUE.

So, I am no preacher, or a preacher of the old legal and ‘Jewish’ Sabbath either!
I am a believer of the Gospel, simply : “the Gospel of Jesus Christ for it is the POWER OF GOD”. Which power of God, God showed undaunted and unchanged “WHEN RAISING Christ from the dead” in both his flesh and in his time, which time, was the Day of God’s Finishing of all his works, and day of his rest --- the day of God’s once for all blessing and sanctification through Jesus Christ and in Jesus Christ, by “the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD”, strictly.

Yes, the Sabbath of the Jew is to him a task; a greater burden and task to him is the legalist Christian’s ‘sabbath’, whether First Day or Seventh Day of the week. But the Lord's Day of the Christ in victory over the last enemy, death --- “the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD” --- since creation and throughout the redeeming revelation of Divinity, is to “The People of God” and “Body of Christ’s Own” a joy, a day of rest, of peace and of thanksgiving : a “FEAST OF CHRIST” and a “reward” “not to be deluded about with enticing words” of the wisdom and authorities of the world.

And if you Christian men can earnestly drive away all distractions and discern the finger of the devil that scribbled over the engraving of the Finger of God so that you can really rest IN GOD’S OWN WORDS, it will be good for your Christian practice, good for your conscience, good mentally, good spiritually, good temporally, and good eternally.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

.........................
Spurgeon: "expressly one whole day in seven, to be a holy Sabbath to himself (Le 19:30 De 5:12)."
.................

GE:

God: "expressly THE SEVENTH day Sabbath OF THE LORD YOUR GOD." "The HOLY DAY OF THE LORD" (Le 19:30 De 5:12 Is 58:13).

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

God: "expressly THE SEVENTH day Sabbath OF THE LORD YOUR GOD." "The HOLY DAY OF THE LORD" (Le 19:30 De 5:12 Is 58:13).

Yes, but not the seventh day "of the week"! but the seventh day after six working days!

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:
God cannot be against Himself; God could change if He willed because He is omnipotent; but because God is FAITHFUL, He chose NOT to change, but rather to send Christ to PROVE HE WOULD NOT CHANGE, EVER, FOR GOD IS LOVE!

Not in the slightest would God ever change, we may NOW believe it without doubt --- BECAUSE OF CHRIST.

So never try, dear Dr Walter, tell a simple man like Gerhard Ebersoehn, God changed. I am TOO SIMPLE to ever believe you or all the hosts of learned, great, and yes, even Godly, men. God did not change; He did not change OWNERSHIP. Like God NEVER changed ownership of one single of his own, God never changed ownership of ANY of his creating and object of love. He would never exchange that which HE declared "MY HOLY DAY" for what MEN declared 'holy'. And his LORDSHIP of "the Lord's Day" God in Christ and through Christ shall most jealously GUARD with all his MIGHT --- EXACTLY WHICH GOD DID, "WHEN, RAISING CHRIST FROM THE DEAD", "SABBATH'S", "HE EXALTED HIM AND SET HIM AT HIS OWN RIGHT HAND IN HEAVENLY MAJESTY" --- “ABSOLUTELY ON THE SABBATH”, "THE SEVENTH DAY GOD THUS CONCERNING DID SPEAK" --- "AT SUNDRY TIMES BEFORE". This same "GOD, WHO, in these LAST days, hath spoken unto US, BY HIS SON".

My friend, God never changed and never needed to change because nowhere in God's Word did he ever say that the Sabbath was the seventh day "OF THE WEEK." He would never say that because if He had said that then he would have changed because he applied the Sabbath to the 1st, 7th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 15th, 21st, 22nd and 28th days of the month in Levitucs 23 as well as the 50th day after 7 regular sabbaths, 7th YEAR and 50th YEAR.

Hence, the principle is merely one sabbath after six non-sabbaths!

The "first day of the week" is the New covenant Sabbath and it too is one Sabbath after six non-sabbaths.

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

You have said what you said, well! You and Spurgeon, have said what is not true, even better. You are masters of language; greater artists with the English language; while I am, quote, a “backbush rhetoric” ‘boslanster’. But no matter how fluent you or I might be in any language, the plain, “Thus saith the LORD” is enough to dispel everything either of us might wish to say which IS NOT TRUE.

So, I am no preacher, or a preacher of the old legal and ‘Jewish’ Sabbath either!
I am a believer of the Gospel, simply : “the Gospel of Jesus Christ for it is the POWER OF GOD”. Which power of God, God showed undaunted and unchanged “WHEN RAISING Christ from the dead” in both his flesh and in his time, which time, was the Day of God’s Finishing of all his works, and day of his rest --- the day of God’s once for all blessing and sanctification through Jesus Christ and in Jesus Christ, by “the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD”, strictly.

You do believe in the gospel and I commend you for that. However, Jesus did not rise on the "Seventh Day Sabbath" but he arose on "THE FIRST DAY SABBATH" and that is not only the clear testimony of the gospel accounts but confirmed by the Apostles (1 Cor. 16:1-2; Acts 20:7; Rev. 1:7) and pictured in the ceremonial feasts sabbaths (Lev. 23) and predicted by David in Psalm 118:20-24 with Acts 4:10-11; 13:33).

The only writings we now possess immediately after the New Testament are the antenicene Fathers and they confirm the "first day of the week" was the universal witness in the first three centuries BEFORE Constantine that this was the "Lord's day" "the first day of the week", "the eighth day" "Sunday" all equally called the "resurrection day" of Christ!


Ignatius says about A.D. 70 – “Let every one who loves Christ, keep holy the Lord’s Day, the queen of days, the resurrection day, the highest of all days.”


Ireneus, Bishop of Lyons, disciple of Polycarp says, “On the Lord’s Day, every one of us Christians keep the Sabbath.”


Barnabas in about A.D. 120 says, “We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead”


Justin Martyr in about A.D. 140 says, “But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because Jesus Christ, our Savior, on the same day rose again from the dead.”


Theopolis in A.D. 167 says, “Both custom and reason challenge from us that we should honor the Lord’s Day, seeing it was that day, our Lord Jesus Christ, completed the resurrection from the dead.”


Dionysius in A.D. 170 says, “We passed this holy Lord’s Day in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition.”


Dynidions in A.D. 170 says, “We Celebrate only the Lord’s Day.”


Bardesanes in A.D. 180 says, “On one day, the first day of the week, we assemble ourselves together.”


Clement in A.D. 192 says that a Christian “According to the commandment of the gospel, observes the Lord’s Day, thereby glorifying the resurrection.”


Clement of Alexandria says in A.D. 194, “He, in fulfillment of the precept, according to the gospel, keeps the Lord’s Day, glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself.”

Tertullian in A.D. 200 says, “We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradiction to those who call this day their Sabbath.”


Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage in A.D. 250 says, “The eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, is the Lord’s Day.”


The Apostolical Constitution says in A.D. 250, “On the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently.”


Anatolius in about A.D. 270 says, “The solemn festival of the resurrection of the Lord can only be celebrated on the Lord’s Day.”


Anatolius Bishop of Laodicea in Asia Minor in A.D. 270 says, “Our regard for the Lord’s resurrection which took place on the Lord’s Day will lead us to celebrate it.”


Victorinus in A.D. 300 says, “On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously that on the Lord’s Day we may go forth to our brad with giving of thanks, lest we should appear to observe any other Sabbath with the Jewish, which Sabbath He in His body abolished[/U].”


Peter, Bishop of Alexanderia in A.D. 306 says, “But the Lord’s Day we celebrate as a day of joy because on it he rose again.”

John the Beloved in A.D. 96 says, “I was in the spirit on the Lord’s Day.” – Rev. 1:10


Luke in about A.D. 60 says, “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them.” – Acts 20:7


Mosheim, in Volume one, page 45 says, “In the first century all Christians were unanimous in the setting apart the first day of the week on which the Savior arose from the dead, for the solemn celebration of public worship; and it was observed universally as appears from the united testimony of the most credible writers.” Today 11:22 AM

 

[BobRyan]

GE:

God: "expressly THE SEVENTH day Sabbath OF THE LORD YOUR GOD." "The HOLY DAY OF THE LORD" (Le 19:30 De 5:12 Is 58:13).

Yes that is true - but what IF God had said "just pick one day in seven - any day you wish just pick one and sanctify it as you please" -- wouldn't that be great? :tonofbricks:

 

[Dr. Walter]

Yes that is true - but what IF God had said "just pick one day in seven - any day you wish just pick one and sanctify it as you please" -- wouldn't that be great? :tonofbricks:

Your missing the established principle. It really does not matter what day "of the week" it falls on as Leviticus 23 demonstrates. What matters is the established principle of six preceding and following a seventh regardless what day "of the week" it may fall upon.

In Leviticus that principle is applied to six "days" "month" "years" and the Sabbath falls upon the 1st, 7th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 15th, 21th 22nd, 28th, 50th" in terms of days but is applied to longer periods that the term "yom " can include (Gen. 2:4) but still in six (years) followed by a seventh (year) or 50th year. It is equally true of THOUSAND year periods, six followed by a seventh thousand year followed by an eternal eighth period!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Walter:
"However, they all agreed that the Old Testament predicted and the New Testament established it on the first day "of the week" for Christians under the New Covenant and rejected the Jewish observation."

GE:

Some Seventh Day ‘observers’ reject the ‘Jewish observation" (Sic.) of the Seventh Day Sabbath Day no less than “they all”— those good men, did. They aren’t many. But fewer First Day ‘observers’ are there who do not suffer of the same ailment.

It’s all the works of fallible men; the one’s above the other’s cannot be expected better.

Another matter altogether is the “observation" of days” (‘hehmeras paratehreisthe’), that irreconcilable 'observance' with the Christian Faith OR WITH CHRIST, that Paul defines as the
"foolish Galatians’",
“return”,
“back to”,
“your former”,
heathen, pagan,
“weak and beggarly”,
“elemental”,
“by nature”,
“no-gods”,
“UNDER WHICH YE
_DID SERVE_”, and
now all over,
“DESIRE” to be
“IN BONDAGE”,
“AGAIN”.


Sunday protagonists blame the LORD GOD Himself for this "superstition" (Calvin— one of those good men referred to) of his People, saying, this Scripture speaks of the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD, while it speaks of “the day of the lord Sun”, that hermaphrodite IDOL of their IDOLATRY, the “lord Sun”, and, “queen of days”.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Your missing the established principle. It really does not matter what day "of the week" it falls on as Leviticus 23 demonstrates. What matters is the established principle of six preceding and following a seventh regardless what day "of the week" it may fall upon.

In Leviticus that principle is applied to six "days" "month" "years" and the Sabbath falls upon the 1st, 7th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 15th, 21th 22nd, 28th, 50th" in terms of days but is applied to longer periods that the term "yom " can include (Gen. 2:4) but still in six (years) followed by a seventh (year) or 50th year. It is equally true of THOUSAND year periods, six followed by a seventh thousand year followed by an eternal eighth period!

GE:

I know a very apt three letter Afrikaans word for what you are talking. Paul used the Greek equivalent for more or less the same purpose.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

.....................

Tyndale explaines how fully man-made tradition trumps the Word of God - Placing man as the Mark 2:27 "Lord of the Sabbath"

GE:

Tyndale said much better when he said that Christians have much better reason to believe the Seventh Day Sabbath than the other Christians have for keeping Sundays. Or to that effect. I can look up the statement, but why? It won't make any difference with just about everyone on here.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Yes that is true - but what IF God had said "just pick one day in seven - any day you wish just pick one and sanctify it as you please" -- wouldn't that be great? :tonofbricks:

GE:

No! That was for the Jews, so they wouldn't work on "The SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD", as well. The Sabbath is not the Sabbath because it comes after MAN'S sixth day of work, but because it came after GOD'S sixth day of work WHEN, HE, "GOD, from all HIS works, rested." "Christentum dass nicht Eschatologie ist hat mit Christus Jesu ganz und gar und Restlos NICHTS zu tun!" KB.