Charles spurgeon on roman catholicism: “a vast mountain of rubbish covering the truth

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

..................
Jesus did not rise on the "Seventh Day Sabbath" but he arose on "THE FIRST DAY SABBATH" and that is not only the clear testimony of the gospel accounts but confirmed by the Apostles (1 Cor. 16:1-2; Acts 20:7; Rev. 1:7) and pictured in the ceremonial feasts sabbaths (Lev. 23) and predicted by David in Psalm 118:20-24 with Acts 4:10-11; 13:33).
.......................

GE:

Jesus rose on the day "OF THE SABBATH" - "SABBATH'S-TIME"

which

was and still is and for ever shall be BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED

"IN THE SABBATH'S FULLNESS OF BEING BROAD DAYLIGHT INCLINING ...

... TOWARDS THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK".

Every letter, every word, every phrase, every TRUTH, literally the very GREEK'S of Matthew 28:1. and ALL : "ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES" THE PASSOVER SCRIPTURES.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Walter
..................
Jesus did not rise on the "Seventh Day Sabbath" but he arose on "THE FIRST DAY SABBATH" and that is not only the clear testimony of the gospel accounts but confirmed by the Apostles (1 Cor. 16:1-2; Acts 20:7; Rev. 1:7) and pictured in the ceremonial feasts sabbaths (Lev. 23) and predicted by David in Psalm 118:20-24 with Acts 4:10-11; 13:33).
.......................


GE:

Now, Dr Walter, You put in quotation marks, the words, “he arose on "THE FIRST DAY SABBATH", and said, “that is not only the clear testimony of the gospel accounts but (is) confirmed by the Apostles”. Then you give some Scriptures for reference. Your words in quotation marks though, WHERE ARE THEY? They are NOT in the Scripture you gave for reference, Dr Walter; so, WHERE ARE THEY?? They are in quotation marks, WHERE ARE THEY?

What you did by having placed those words in quotation marks, is FALSE and PREMEDITATED falsehood.

 

[Rippon]

On The Other Hand ...

Taken from :C.H.Spurgeon Autobiography:Volume2. The Full Harvest.

Chapter 2:In Calvin's Pulpit

Never did I feel my Protestant feelings boiling over so tremendously as in this city of idols,for I am not an outrageous Protestant generally, and I rejoice to confess that I feel sure there are some of God's people even in the Romish Church, as I shall have to show you by-and-by; but I did feel indignant when I saw the glory and worship which belong to God alone, given to pictures,and images of wood and stone. When I saw the pulpits magnificently carved, the gems set in the shrines,the costly marbles, the rich and rare paintings upon which a man might gaze for a day,and see some new beauty in each face, I did not marvel that men were enchanted therewith;but when I saw the most flagrant violation of taste and of religion in their 'Calvarys' and cheap prints, my spirit was stirred within me, for I saw a people wholly given unto idolatry. They seem as if they could not live without Mary the Virgin,and without continually paying reverance and adoration to her. (p.21)

 

[BobRyan]

Your missing the established principle. It really does not matter what day "of the week" it falls on as Leviticus 23 demonstrates. !

Leviticus 23 does NOT demonstrate that you can select any day you like - sanctify it of your own authority and declare it Sabbath.

Rather Lev 23 points out that GOD ALONE can determine what day is Holy.

Notice that Lev 23 DOES NOT even remotely suggest that the 7th day memorial of Creation is "changable"!!

The lack of Bible support for your wild ideas is more than a little obvious to the Bible students reading with an ounce of critical thinking skills on this point.

The 4th commandment does NOT say "What matters is a 6th of anything you like followed by a Seventh of your choosing".

Gen 2:3 says that God rested and GOD sanctified the day.

But the Mark 7 plan of man is to "teach for doctrine the commandments and traditions of man".

As Tyndale suggest - making man the "Lord of the Sabbath" to sanctify and bless any day of his choosing - thus taking the seat of Christ in Mark 2:27.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Here is a facinating list of explicit "Sunday is the Lord's Day" style of statements that we would have "expected" to find in the actual Word of God -- IF such a doctrine were true.

Ignatius says about A.D. 70 – “Let every one who loves Christ, keep holy the Lord’s Day, the queen of days, the resurrection day, the highest of all days.”

Ireneus, Bishop of Lyons, disciple of Polycarp says, “On the Lord’s Day, every one of us Christians keep the Sabbath.”


Barnabas in about A.D. 120 says, “We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead”


Justin Martyr in about A.D. 140 says, “But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because Jesus Christ, our Savior, on the same day rose again from the dead.”


Theopolis in A.D. 167 says, “Both custom and reason challenge from us that we should honor the Lord’s Day, seeing it was that day, our Lord Jesus Christ, completed the resurrection from the dead.”

Dionysius in A.D. 170 says, “We passed this holy Lord’s Day in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition.”

Dynidions in A.D. 170 says, “We Celebrate only the Lord’s Day.”
Bardesanes in A.D. 180 says, “On one day, the first day of the week, we assemble ourselves together.”

Clement in A.D. 192 says that a Christian “According to the commandment of the gospel, observes the Lord’s Day, thereby glorifying the resurrection.”
Clement of Alexandria says in A.D. 194, “He, in fulfillment of the precept, according to the gospel, keeps the Lord’s Day, glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself.”

Tertullian in A.D. 200 says, “We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradiction to those who call this day their Sabbath.”

Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage in A.D. 250 says, “The eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, is the Lord’s Day.”

The Apostolical Constitution says in A.D. 250, “On the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently.”

Anatolius in about A.D. 270 says, “The solemn festival of the resurrection of the Lord can only be celebrated on the Lord’s Day.”

Anatolius Bishop of Laodicea in Asia Minor in A.D. 270 says, “Our regard for the Lord’s resurrection which took place on the Lord’s Day will lead us to celebrate it.”

Victorinus in A.D. 300 says, “On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously that on the Lord’s Day we may go forth to our brad with giving of thanks, lest we should appear to observe any other Sabbath with the Jewish, which Sabbath He in His body abolished.”

Peter, Bishop of Alexanderia in A.D. 306 says, “But the Lord’s Day we celebrate as a day of joy because on it he rose again.”

Mosheim, in Volume one, page 45 says, “In the first century all Christians were unanimous in the setting apart the first day of the week on which the Savior arose from the dead, for the solemn celebration of public worship; and it was observed universally as appears from the united testimony of the most credible writers.”

Instead all we find in the sola-scriptura review of this doctrine is -

John the Beloved in A.D. 96 says, “I was in the spirit on the Lord’s Day.” – Rev. 1:10 --- without any mention that the Lord's Day is other than the Mark 2:27 day "The Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath".

Luke in about A.D. 60 says, “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them.” – Acts 20:7 -- A one time event on Saturday evening as Paul was planning an all-day-travel day starting Sunday morning.


1. The first references to Sunday as the Lord’s Day do not occur until the 2nd half of the 2nd century A.D.
2. Early claims for such a thing based on the forged/fake documents such as Ignatius’ letter to the Magnesian Christians and the supposed Epistle of Barnabas merely demonstrate the extreme “need” to find a source for Sunday as the Lord’s Day – so great is "the need" that they willingly stoop to appeals to known fakes for getting that evidence. (Hint - a number of sources in Walter's own list pound against the idea that the letter of Barnabas is legit yet Walter includes them both!)
3. However the language of the many Lord’s Day quotes contained in both the fake documents as well as the post 2nd century real documents well represent the needed statements for Lord’s Day (if one were to be introducing such a day) – so conspicuously absent from the text of scripture!

Oh well - what else did we expect.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Dr. Walter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Walter
..................
Jesus did not rise on the "Seventh Day Sabbath" but he arose on "THE FIRST DAY SABBATH" and that is not only the clear testimony of the gospel accounts but confirmed by the Apostles (1 Cor. 16:1-2; Acts 20:7; Rev. 1:7) and pictured in the ceremonial feasts sabbaths (Lev. 23) and predicted by David in Psalm 118:20-24 with Acts 4:10-11; 13:33).
.......................


GE:

Now, Dr Walter, You put in quotation marks, the words, “he arose on "THE FIRST DAY SABBATH", and said, “that is not only the clear testimony of the gospel accounts but (is) confirmed by the Apostles”. Then you give some Scriptures for reference. Your words in quotation marks though, WHERE ARE THEY? They are NOT in the Scripture you gave for reference, Dr Walter; so, WHERE ARE THEY?? They are in quotation marks, WHERE ARE THEY?

What you did by having placed those words in quotation marks, is FALSE and PREMEDITATED falsehood.

Mark 16:9 literally reads "the first sabbath in a new series" (protos = first in a new series; "sabbatou = singular and only used of the fourth commandment Sabbath) "proii" - 3am to 6am Sunday Morning!

 

[Dr. Walter]

Leviticus 23 does NOT demonstrate that you can select any day you like - sanctify it of your own authority and declare it Sabbath.

Never said you could! What I pointed out is God could and did in Leviticus 23. Proof that the Sabbath law was not restricted by God to any day "of the week" because if it were then God could not apply the Sabbath law to any other days "of the week" or of the month but He did!

Rather Lev 23 points out that GOD ALONE can determine what day is Holy.

Oh no you don't! Not "holy" but "SABBATH REST" days! These days were SABBATHS not just "holy."

Notice that Lev 23 DOES NOT even remotely suggest that the 7th day memorial of Creation is "changable"!!

They certainly do! They reflect a NEW covenant where the FIRST DAY commemorates a GREATER work -the work of redemption and the 50th day Sabbath looks forward to a GREATER CREATION as does the 50th year Sabbath in Leviticus 25. The fourth commandment takes in this change in Deuteronomy 5 where NOT A WORD IS SAID ABOUT THE FORMER CREATION but rather REDEMPTION out of Egypt is what they were to "REMEMBER" as the redemption out of Egypt by the blood of the Lamb anticipates a GREATER WORK of God that the Sabbath will commemorate with a GREATER CREATION to come!

 

[Dr. Walter]

Here is a facinating list of explicit "Sunday is the Lord's Day" style of statements that we would have "expected" to find in the actual Word of God -- IF such a doctrine were true.

What is facinating in this list is that the resurrection day of Christ is defined by a variety of terms:

(1) The Lord's Day
(2) The Eighth day
(3) Sunday
(4) The first day of the Week
(5) The Sabbath in contrast to the Jewish day

1. The first references to Sunday as the Lord’s Day do not occur until the 2nd half of the 2nd century A.D.

Confession is good for the soul. However, this is not what Bob's "prophet" Ellen G. White and 99.9% of all SDA literature says! Nearly 99.9% of all SDA publications demand that Constantine and the Catholic Church were the FIRST to change the Sabbath to Sunday! They still perpetuate this lie to the unlearned. Only when history is placed right in their face will they admit that Sunday observance predated Constantine by at least 200 years and during that 200 year period it was universal according to the records they cannot get rid of!

2. Early claims for such a thing based on the forged/fake documents such as Ignatius’ letter to the Magnesian Christians and the supposed Epistle of Barnabas merely demonstrate the extreme “need” to find a source for Sunday as the Lord’s Day – so great is "the need" that they willingly stoop to appeals to known fakes for getting that evidence. (Hint - a number of sources in Walter's own list pound against the idea that the letter of Barnabas is legit yet Walter includes them both!)

Even if we surmised these two documents are forgeries they still convey what the forgers believed at that point in time. Furthermore, Bob cannot explain away the following and all before Constantine. Note the variety of ways the resurrection day is specified (Sunday, Lord's Day, first day of the week, not the Jewish Sabbath, eighth day):

Justin Martyr in about A.D. 140 says, “But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because Jesus Christ, our Savior, on the same day rose again from the dead.”


Theopolis in A.D. 167 says, “Both custom and reason challenge from us that we should honor the Lord’s Day, seeing it was that day, our Lord Jesus Christ, completed the resurrection from the dead.”

Dionysius in A.D. 170 says, “We passed this holy Lord’s Day in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition.”

Dynidions in A.D. 170 says, “We Celebrate only the Lord’s Day.”

Bardesanes in A.D. 180 says, “On one day, the first day of the week, we assemble ourselves together.”

Clement in A.D. 192 says that a Christian “According to the commandment of the gospel, observes the Lord’s Day, thereby glorifying the resurrection.”

Clement of Alexandria says in A.D. 194, “He, in fulfillment of the precept, according to the gospel, keeps the Lord’s Day, glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself.”

Tertullian in A.D. 200 says, “We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradiction to those who call this day their Sabbath.”

Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage in A.D. 250 says, “The eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, is the Lord’s Day.”

The Apostolical Constitution says in A.D. 250, “On the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently.”

Anatolius in about A.D. 270 says, “The solemn festival of the resurrection of the Lord can only be celebrated on the Lord’s Day.”

Anatolius Bishop of Laodicea in Asia Minor in A.D. 270 says, “Our regard for the Lord’s resurrection which took place on the Lord’s Day will lead us to celebrate it.”

Victorinus in A.D. 300 says, “On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously that on the Lord’s Day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks, lest we should appear to observe any other Sabbath with the Jewish, which Sabbath He in His body abolished.”

Peter, Bishop of Alexanderia in A.D. 306 says, “But the Lord’s Day we celebrate as a day of joy because on it he rose again.”

Mosheim, in Volume one, page 45 says, “In the first century all Christians were unanimous in the setting apart the first day of the week on which the Savior arose from the dead, for the solemn celebration of public worship; and it was observed universally as appears from the united testimony of the most credible writers.”


Notice that Justin Marty (140 AD) , Bardesanes (180 AD) Tertullian,(200 AD) Cyprian, (250 AD) Victorinus (300 AD) all define Sunday as "the Lord's Day" and
Tertullian, Cyprus and Victorinus distinguish the "Lord's day" from the Jewish Sabbath or the seventh day "of the week."

3. However the language of the many Lord’s Day quotes contained in both the fake documents as well as the post 2nd century real documents well represent the needed statements for Lord’s Day (if one were to be introducing such a day) – so conspicuously absent from the text of scripture!

Not so! The term "kuriakos" in Rev. 1:10 proves that Sunday was the "Lord's Day"! Those who insist that "kuriakos" here refers to the eschatalogical "day of the Lord" HAVE NOT ONE SINGLE PEICE OF EVIDENCE because "kuiakos" is NEVER ONCE used in that expression - NEVER! The phrase containing Kuriakos in Rev. 1:10 was UNIVERALLY recognized all over the Roman Empire as Sunday because it was the term that designated that day to offer incense by every Roman citizen to the Emperor as the god/man! John and Paul apply it to observing those things of the true God/man (1 Cor. 11:20; Rev. 1:10).

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Mark 16:9 literally reads "the first sabbath in a new series" (protos = first in a new series; "sabbatou = singular and only used of the fourth commandment Sabbath) "proii" - 3am to 6am Sunday Morning!

GE:

Robert Young, Under “Illustrations of Bible Idioms”, “A DEFINITE number is frequently used for an INDEFINITE, e.g.,— …Mark 16:9…”; the ‘definite’ being “Early on the First Day…” (‘proh-i prohtehi (‘hehmerai’ by Ellipsis), and the ‘indefinite’ being, “of the week” (‘sabbatou’).

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Mark 16:9 literally reads "the first sabbath in a new series" (protos = first in a new series; "sabbatou = singular and only used of the fourth commandment Sabbath) "proii" - 3am to 6am Sunday Morning!

GE:

Calvin, Note on Mark 16:9, KJV, "9. Now, when Jesus was risen early on the first day of the Sabbath, 2 he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils"...

"2 "Au premier jour du Sabbath, ou, de la sepmaine;"--"on the first day of the Sabbath, or, of the week.""

And so virtually EVERY proper English translation or paraphrasing and as good as every other language on earth, and thousands upon thousands of fervent Sunday, 'First Day of the week'-Resurrection devoted scholars of mark.

You do not have an issue with me to settle, Dr Walter, but with your own people of faith. "OF THE WEEK" is the meaning of the word 'sabbatou' in the context of Mark 16:9, "Early on the First Day of the week He (Jesus), the Risen, appeared, first(of all), to Mary Magdalene...".
Mark and save this post; it's the end of all controversy on this matter.

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

Robert Young, Under “Illustrations of Bible Idioms”, “A DEFINITE number is frequently used for an INDEFINITE, e.g.,— …Mark 16:9…”; the ‘definite’ being “Early on the First Day…” (‘proh-i prohtehi (‘hehmerai’ by Ellipsis), and the ‘indefinite’ being, “of the week” (‘sabbatou’).

Compare the words used in Mark 16:2 with Mark 16:9! "mia" is used in verse 2 but "proto" in verse 9. The plural "sabbaton" is used in verse 2 but the singular "sabbatou" is used in verse 9.

Mark 16:2 gives the normal reading for the "first day of the week" but the change in verse 9 is intentional. "Mia" is simply the regular ordinal number "first" but "prote" refers to the first in a series. Sabbaton is the regular term used for the day following the Jewish Sabbath when used with "mia" but "Sabbatou" is the normal term used for the fourth commandment Sabbath.

Hence, Jesus arose "proii" early between 3am to 6am on the "first Sabbath of a new series" identified in verse 2 as the "first day of the week."

This is the predicted new Sabbath observance by David in Psalm 118:20-24 and applied in reference to the resurrection of Christ in Acts 4:10-11 and confirmed as the "first Sabbath in a new series of Sabbath" by Mark and confirmed by Hebrews 4:9 as a BETTER Sabbath day observance for the people of God than the 7th day Sabbath in Creation (Heb. 4:3).

The term "prote" is used every single time it occurs in the New Testament as the first in a series or the first of something brand new.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

..................The term "kuriakos" in Rev. 1:10 proves that Sunday was the "Lord's Day"! Those who insist that "kuriakos" here refers to the eschatalogical "day of the Lord" HAVE NOT ONE SINGLE PEICE OF EVIDENCE because "kuiakos" is NEVER ONCE used in that expression - NEVER! The phrase containing Kuriakos in Rev. 1:10 was UNIVERALLY recognized all over the Roman Empire as Sunday because it was the term that designated that day to offer incense by every Roman citizen to the Emperor as the god/man! John and Paul apply it to observing those things of the true God/man (1 Cor. 11:20; Rev. 1:10).

GE:

Dr Walter, WHO, is trying to "insist that "kuriakos" here refers to the eschatalogical "day of the Lord""?

Since when, Dr Walter, generally, is the Seventh Day Sabbath called "the eschatalogical "day of the Lord""?

But which day --- OF THE WEEK exactly --- did Jesus say "The Son of Man is Lord" of?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Compare the words used in Mark 16:2 with Mark 16:9! "mia" is used in verse 2 but "proto" in verse 9. The plural "sabbaton" is used in verse 2 but the singular "sabbatou" is used in verse 9.

Mark 16:2 gives the normal reading for the "first day of the week" but the change in verse 9 is intentional. "Mia" is simply the regular ordinal number "first" but "protos" refers to the first in a series. Sabbaton is the regular term used for the day following the Jewish Sabbath when used with "mia" but "Sabbatou" is the normal term used for the fourth commandment Sabbath.

Hence, Jesus arose "proii" early between 3am to 6am on the "first Sabbath of a new series" identified in verse 2 as the "first day of the week."

This is the predicted new Sabbath observance by David in Psalm 118:20-24 and applied in reference to the resurrection of Christ in Acts 4:10-11 and confirmed as the "first Sabbath in a new series of Sabbath" by Mark and confirmed by Hebrews 4:9 as a BETTER Sabbath day observance for the people of God than the 7th day Sabbath in Creation (Heb. 4:3).

GE:

Bla bla bla.


This very interpretation and this very verse a month or so ago, a Judaist Sabbatarian used to prove the Resurrection was on the Jewish Sabbath! For four hundred pages our 'discourse' went on!

Amazing! Now it's Dr Walter to prove Sunday observance! What next?!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

But I'll return post, DV, short and sweet, shortly....

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

Dr Walter, WHO, is trying to "insist that "kuriakos" here refers to the eschatalogical "day of the Lord""?

There have been some on this forum who argue that "kuriakos" in Revelation 1:10 has reference to the Old Testament phrase "the day of the Lord." However, you and I both know this term is NEVER used in that phrase but rather the common term "kurios" is ALWAYS the term used in that phrase.

Since when, Dr Walter, generally, is the Seventh Day Sabbath called "the eschatalogical "day of the Lord""?

Never as far as I am aware!

But which day --- OF THE WEEK exactly --- did Jesus say "The Son of Man is Lord" of?

He is the Lord of "the Sabbath" - which the Lord can apply to any day He chooses as Leviticus 23 proves! He applied the Sabbath to the 1st, 7th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 15th, 21st, 22nd, 28th days of the month, and 50th day! He can apply it to LONGER PERIODS OF TIME than a 24 hour "day" as Leviticus 23 and 25 prove and as the term "yom" can be used (Gen. 2:4) such as the seventh "month" seventh "year" 50th year!

Leviticus 23 is a pictorial, symbolic portrayal of shift from the Old Covenant and its Sabbath (seventh) to the New Covenant and its Sabbath (first) and between the seventh millennium to the eternal day sabbath - new creation and new earth!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn
GE:

Dr Walter, WHO, is trying to "insist that "kuriakos" here refers to the eschatalogical "day of the Lord""?

DW:

There have been some on this forum who argue that "kuriakos" in Revelation 1:10 has reference to the Old Testament phrase "the day of the Lord." However, you and I both know this term is NEVER used in that phrase but rather the common term "kurios" is ALWAYS the term used in that phrase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn
Since when, Dr Walter, generally, is the Seventh Day Sabbath called "the eschatalogical "day of the Lord""?

DW:

Never as far as I am aware!

.............................

GE:

Then why do you refer to it in THIS THREAD where NOBODY has an issue with it?

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

Then why do you refer to it in THIS THREAD where NOBODY has an issue with it?

They have referred to it like that in previous threads. I wanted to make sure that this idea did not resurface.

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Walter
..................
Jesus did not rise on the "Seventh Day Sabbath" but he arose on "THE FIRST DAY SABBATH" and that is not only the clear testimony of the gospel accounts but confirmed by the Apostles (1 Cor. 16:1-2; Acts 20:7; Rev. 1:7) and pictured in the ceremonial feasts sabbaths (Lev. 23) and predicted by David in Psalm 118:20-24 with Acts 4:10-11; 13:33).
.......................


GE:

Now, Dr Walter, You put in quotation marks, the words, “he arose on "THE FIRST DAY SABBATH", and said, “that is not only the clear testimony of the gospel accounts but (is) confirmed by the Apostles”. Then you give some Scriptures for reference. Your words in quotation marks though, WHERE ARE THEY? They are NOT in the Scripture you gave for reference, Dr Walter; so, WHERE ARE THEY?? They are in quotation marks, WHERE ARE THEY?

And so we now see why Walter's tactics fit so well on a thread specific to the methods used in the dark ages to insert error into Christian doctrines.

Oh well...

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Here is a facinating list of explicit "Sunday is the Lord's Day" style of statements that we would have "expected" to find in the actual Word of God -- IF such a doctrine were true.

What is facinating in this list is that the resurrection day of Christ is defined by a variety of terms:

(1) The Lord's Day
(2) The Eighth day
(3) Sunday
(4) The first day of the Week
(5) The Sabbath in contrast to the Jewish day

It is true that the Bible refers to "week day 1" as "week day one".

And it is true that man-made tradition does refer to "week day 1" as "Sunday" and as "Sabbath".

That you have shown without question.

The only part that was even questioned is your reference to the fakes and forgeries related to Barnabas and Ignatius.

As Bacchiocchi has also stated - the first time we see Sunday referred to as the "Lord's Day" is no earlier than the late second century A.D.

Walter said -
Even if we surmised these two documents are forgeries they still convey what the forgers believed at that point in time.

Certainly Calvin agreed that they were forgeries. Which leaves us with the question of just "when" they were faked or forged. As I said the 2nd half of the second century A.D. is the earliest.

But what is "most instructive" is that they contain the language we would EXPECT of those trying to "introduce" and solidify the beginning of a change of days.

The language so conspicuously absent from scripture.

The language so necessary IF you were to try and defend a Sunday holy day "sola scriptura".

Something you seem to have let slip by the wayside.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Notice that Justin Marty (140 AD) , Bardesanes (180 AD) Tertullian,(200 AD) Cyprian, (250 AD) Victorinus (300 AD) all define Sunday as "the Lord's Day" and

In the case of Justin Martyr you have your earliest claim. However Matyr is very explicit that Sunday is not the Christian Sabbath -- is in fact not a Sabbath of any kind at all. Justin appeals to a distinctly pagan view of Saturn and the "day of the Sun" in his argument for Sunday services and explicitly denies any association with the 4th commandment.

How very "unlike" Spurgeon's argument on that point!

And as for the fact that 3rd and 4th century sources can be found equating week-day-one with "Lord's day" -- that point was never doubted

As Paul said in Acts 20 "After my departure men will arise from among your own selves" teaching error.

Walter said
Not so! The term "kuriakos" in Rev. 1:10 proves that Sunday was the "Lord's Day"!

Not even remotely!

The Rev 1:10 is "scripture" not paganism trying to merge with christianity.

Rev 1:10 can only be interpreted by scripture - not paganism.

Thus the Lord's Day in Rev 1:10 needs a scriptural context - and we find that in Mark 2:27 "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath".

But your appeal to pagan notions about that day at the time of John -- is "noted".

in Christ,

Bob