Eternal Union of Christ and His Children

[savedbymercy]

Another Truth regarding the eternal union of Christ with His children or seed, is that of redemption, in which He was their redeemer, they were redeemed by His blood..

Now Jesus Christ as the redeemer of Gods elect, and His sisters and brothers, points to Him having a previous relationship with the ones being redeemed see Heb 2:11, and this is seen in the biblical laws of redemption.. The qualification for a redeemer was he must belong to the same family of those to whom He was to redeem..This is Illustrated in a couple of places in the scripture Lev 25:25

25If thy brother be waxen poor, and hath sold away some of his possession, and if any of his kin come to redeem it,then shall he redeem that which his brother sold.

Also the book of Ruth 2:20

20And Naomi said unto her daughter in law, Blessed be he of the LORD, who hath not left off his kindness to the living and to the dead. And Naomi said unto her, The man is near of kin unto us, one of our next kinsmen.

Ruth3:12-13

12And now it is true that I am thy near kinsman: howbeit there is a kinsman nearer than I.

13Tarry this night, and it shall be in the morning, that if he will perform unto thee the part of a kinsman, well; let him do the kinsman's part: but if he will not do the part of a kinsman to thee, then will I do the part of a kinsman to thee, as the LORD liveth: lie down until the morning.

Ruth 4:1,4,6

1Then went Boaz up to the gate, and sat him down there: and, behold, the kinsman of whom Boaz spake came by; unto whom he said, Ho, such a one! turn aside, sit down here. And he turned aside, and sat down.

4And I thought to advertise thee, saying, Buy it before the inhabitants, and before the elders of my people. If thou wilt redeem it, redeem it: but if thou wilt not redeem it, then tell me, that I may know: for there is none to redeem it beside thee; and I am after thee. And he said, I will redeem it.

6And the kinsman said, I cannot redeem it for myself, lest I mar mine own inheritance: redeem thou my right to thyself; for I cannot redeem it.

This is why it is written in Heb 2:17, to be made like unto His brethren, all those whom He was the Firstborn of..Heb 2:17

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Rom 8:29

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Now, was Jesus the redeemer of the serpents seed ? [ Gen 3:15 ] Did He ever sustain a relationship with the children of the devil ?

Remember, the right of redemption came through kinship, thats biblical..

 

[Dr. Walter]

In eternity they were chosen "TO" salvation they were not saved (2 Thes. 2:13). There is no application of any aspect of redemption in eternity past EXCEPT by design/purpose/divine determination - period and not a single scripture you can produce will contradict that truth.

Another Truth regarding the eternal union of Christ with His children or seed, is that of redemption, in which He was their redeemer, they were redeemed by His blood..

Now Jesus Christ as the redeemer of Gods elect, and His sisters and brothers, points to Him having a previous relationship with the ones being redeemed see Heb 2:11, and this is seen in the biblical laws of redemption.. The qualification for a redeemer was he must belong to the same family of those to whom He was to redeem..This is Illustrated in a couple of places in the scripture Lev 25:25

25If thy brother be waxen poor, and hath sold away some of his possession, and if any of his kin come to redeem it,then shall he redeem that which his brother sold.

Also the book of Ruth 2:20

20And Naomi said unto her daughter in law, Blessed be he of the LORD, who hath not left off his kindness to the living and to the dead. And Naomi said unto her, The man is near of kin unto us, one of our next kinsmen.

Ruth3:12-13

12And now it is true that I am thy near kinsman: howbeit there is a kinsman nearer than I.

13Tarry this night, and it shall be in the morning, that if he will perform unto thee the part of a kinsman, well; let him do the kinsman's part: but if he will not do the part of a kinsman to thee, then will I do the part of a kinsman to thee, as the LORD liveth: lie down until the morning.

Ruth 4:1,4,6

1Then went Boaz up to the gate, and sat him down there: and, behold, the kinsman of whom Boaz spake came by; unto whom he said, Ho, such a one! turn aside, sit down here. And he turned aside, and sat down.

4And I thought to advertise thee, saying, Buy it before the inhabitants, and before the elders of my people. If thou wilt redeem it, redeem it: but if thou wilt not redeem it, then tell me, that I may know: for there is none to redeem it beside thee; and I am after thee. And he said, I will redeem it.

6And the kinsman said, I cannot redeem it for myself, lest I mar mine own inheritance: redeem thou my right to thyself; for I cannot redeem it.

This is why it is written in Heb 2:17, to be made like unto His brethren, all those whom He was the Firstborn of..Heb 2:17

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Rom 8:29

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Now, was Jesus the redeemer of the serpents seed ? [ Gen 3:15 ] Did He ever sustain a relationship with the children of the devil ?

Remember, the right of redemption came through kinship, thats biblical..

 

[savedbymercy]

In eternity they were chosen "TO" salvation they were not saved (2 Thes. 2:13).

This verse does not deny an Eternal Union Christ had with His Church.

 

[Dr. Walter]

This verse does not deny an Eternal Union Christ had with His Church.

I do not deny there is an eternal union between Christ and his elect in the sense of PURPOSE before the world began and in regeneration in time and space.

However, there is not one iota of scripture that teaches any kind of actual spiritual union existing between Christ and the elect prior to regeneration - none, nada, zilch, zip!

To claim that there is ACTUAL SPIRITUAL UNION existing before the world began between Christ and His elect so that they are SEMINALLY part of his Spiritual nature is polytheism pure and simple.

 

[savedbymercy]

The Fact that Men were born into this world physically, by their union by Adam.. all that would populate the earth from the beginning of time until the end, were created in Adam here Gen 1:26-28

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

So when God created Adam, in essence He created every human being that would have physical life, they were in Adam..

This is confirmed from a proper understanding of Acts 17:26

26And hath made of one blood [Adam] all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Everything had been determined about all the men in Adam ho were to be born or manifested, God determined when and where they would be born, at the very beginning of the world as with Abel and Cain, or at the end of the world as we are quickly approaching, God determined where we all would be born, the continent, country, state city and county..

None of this was a result of mans free will, mans will was not consulted, man was and is at the disposal of God's Sovereign Prerogatives for him..

None were able to have a say on whether or not God determined that they would be in Adam, in the beginning in Genesis when God created them in Him..

But the very Fact that we have physical being now, is indicative of the Fact that we had a being in Him [ seed ] when He was created, it was now just a matter of time as to when our being would serve Gods time and purpose.. Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die

 

[Dr. Walter]

Romans 5:14-15 tells you explicity that the comparison between Adam and Christ is not paralell in all particulars. In Adam PHYSCIAL UNION preceded physical birth and we were seminally PHYSICALLY alive in Adam before that life was manifested individually by birth. Hence, physical life and union in Adam preceded physical birth.

However, the reverse is true in Christ. We were SPIRITUALLY DEAD (Eph. 2:1) and alienated from the life of God (Eph. 4:18) previous to our SPIRITUAL BIRTH in Christ. There was no SPIRITUAL LIFE or SPIRITUAL UNION in Christ any more than glorification in Christ previous to the NEW BIRTH. The New birth CREATED us "in Christ" thus obtaining SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ.

We had no ACTUAL seminal existence in the actual Person of Christ before the world began. We had no ACTUAL spiritual union in the actual Person of Christ before the world began. We merely had a CONCEPTUAL existence in the mind of God in regard to his predetermined purpose. We were only "in Christ" by elective purpose NEVER by actual seminal existence or spiritual union.

To teach that we had ACTUAL seminal existence or ACTUAL spiritual union with the ACTUAL Person of Christ is to teach polytheism and is a false doctrine and that is exactly what you are teaching.

The Fact that Men were born into this world physically, by their union by Adam.. all that would populate the earth from the beginning of time until the end, were created in Adam here Gen 1:26-28

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

So when God created Adam, in essence He created every human being that would have physical life, they were in Adam..

This is confirmed from a proper understanding of Acts 17:26

26And hath made of one blood [Adam] all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Everything had been determined about all the men in Adam ho were to be born or manifested, God determined when and where they would be born, at the very beginning of the world as with Abel and Cain, or at the end of the world as we are quickly approaching, God determined where we all would be born, the continent, country, state city and county..

None of this was a result of mans free will, mans will was not consulted, man was and is at the disposal of God's Sovereign Prerogatives for him..

None were able to have a say on whether or not God determined that they would be in Adam, in the beginning in Genesis when God created them in Him..

But the very Fact that we have physical being now, is indicative of the Fact that we had a being in Him [ seed ] when He was created, it was now just a matter of time as to when our being would serve Gods time and purpose.. Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die

 

[savedbymercy]

Eternal Union cont

When speaking about the Eternal Union that Christ had with His church before the world began, thats not referring to the manifestation of that union as we are experimentally brought to feel it and realize it by Faith after having been regenerated or the Divine Act of being passed from death unto life [ denoting resurrection], and this union, though not actualized until some time in our physical life, this union is nevertheless actual union existing from everlasting [ see Isa 9:6 The everlasting Father] between Christ as the Mediator Head of His church, people, members of His body.

Just as Abraham was made a Father of many nations Gen 17:5, So likewise was Christ from everlasting..

This is the same way that the physical lives of the elect had a actual living and vital union in Adam, before they had a actual manifestation to be born as sinners.

Now as far as our knowledge and personal experience and enjoyment is concerned of the eternal union the elect had with Christ, it was prospective in the Eternal Purpose of God; For God had chosen His people in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, and this was even before we are born sinners because of our union with Adam.

Before time began, God had predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son [ we too being sons along with Him see Jn 20:17 ] that He the Son, might be the Firstborn [ which means more of the planned family were to come] of many brethren or sons..rRm 8:29

The word for brethren in Rom 8:29 is the greek word:

adelphos and means here in this context:

a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother

Naturally it means that Christ and His brethren were all born of the same Father, God the Father..for He planned and purposed and actualized all of their coming into being..

God has predestinated us not only that we should be sanctified by the Truth, and overcomer's by Faith, but that we would be fully conformed to the Image of Christ, this was our destiny determined by God in eternity past. This conforming entailed , in order to bring about God's results, a changing of our inward man, a new nature as here:

Rom 7:22

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Remember Jesus said here Ps 40:8
8I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

And Eph 4:24

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

And it [ conforming to Christ] includes a changing of our outward form, that we will match the Glorified God Man in the future 1 Jn 3:2

2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

For He Jesus Christ is the prototype, and His chosen brethren and sisters are the mass production, for both the inward and soon to be outward changes in us, are the results of the effective work of the Holy Ghost, in conjunction with the redeeming death of the Son, which quickens us spiritually inwardly, and will yet quicken our mortal bodies..

He [ Jesus Christ] is God's Firstborn, of the Glorified Family of God, of which He purposed from eternity..

For any thoughtful person [ by the Spirit of God] this truth eliminates any lies of freewill of man, but its all to do with the Sovereign freewill of God: note: men to day will give freewill to men before to God..

For Paul writes Eph 1:5

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


And not according to the lie, that God looked into the future and saw which dead sinners were going to accept Him, and then responding to them, He predestinated them according to their will For that is just plain made up doctrine of men..

 

[Dr. Walter]

The whole basis for your theory is the comparison of the PHYSICAL relationship of Adam with the human race where there is PHYSICAL reproductive genetic seminal characteristics that bind the human race together. No such PHYSICAL characteristics can be applied to any SPIRIT being and therefore no such comparison of such reproductive characteristics is intended.

Your error is that you take a comparison TOO FAR and try to make it walk on all fours when it is not meant to walk on all fours or meant to be EXACTLY paralell in every aspect and that should be obvious because one is PHYSICAL and the other is SPIRITUAL. The PHYSICAL has REPRODUCTIVE capability inherent in the nature of man but that is not true in the nature of God or else we have polythesism.

Your error is that you come back every single time to HUMAN CHARACTERISTICS in order to PRESUME that God has the same kind of characteristics for the basis of SPIRITUAL union with the elect - HE DOES NOT!

Eternal Union cont

When speaking about the Eternal Union that Christ had with His church before the world began, thats not referring to the manifestation of that union as we are experimentally brought to feel it and realize it by Faith after having been regenerated or the Divine Act of being passed from death unto life [ denoting resurrection], and this union, though not actualized until some time in our physical life, this union is nevertheless actual union existing from everlasting [ see Isa 9:6 The everlasting Father] between Christ as the Mediator Head of His church, people, members of His body.

Just as Abraham was made a Father of many nations Gen 17:5, So likewise was Christ from everlasting..

This is the same way that the physical lives of the elect had a actual living and vital union in Adam, before they had a actual manifestation to be born as sinners.

Now as far as our knowledge and personal experience and enjoyment is concerned of the eternal union the elect had with Christ, it was prospective in the Eternal Purpose of God; For God had chosen His people in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, and this was even before we are born sinners because of our union with Adam.

Before time began, God had predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son [ we too being sons along with Him see Jn 20:17 ] that He the Son, might be the Firstborn [ which means more of the planned family were to come] of many brethren or sons..rRm 8:29

The word for brethren in Rom 8:29 is the greek word:

adelphos and means here in this context:

a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother

Naturally it means that Christ and His brethren were all born of the same Father, God the Father..for He planned and purposed and actualized all of their coming into being..

God has predestinated us not only that we should be sanctified by the Truth, and overcomer's by Faith, but that we would be fully conformed to the Image of Christ, this was our destiny determined by God in eternity past. This conforming entailed , in order to bring about God's results, a changing of our inward man, a new nature as here:

Rom 7:22

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Remember Jesus said here Ps 40:8
8I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

And Eph 4:24

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

And it [ conforming to Christ] includes a changing of our outward form, that we will match the Glorified God Man in the future 1 Jn 3:2

2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

For He Jesus Christ is the prototype, and His chosen brethren and sisters are the mass production, for both the inward and soon to be outward changes in us, are the results of the effective work of the Holy Ghost, in conjunction with the redeeming death of the Son, which quickens us spiritually inwardly, and will yet quicken our mortal bodies..

He [ Jesus Christ] is God's Firstborn, of the Glorified Family of God, of which He purposed from eternity..

For any thoughtful person [ by the Spirit of God] this truth eliminates any lies of freewill of man, but its all to do with the Sovereign freewill of God: note: men to day will give freewill to men before to God..

For Paul writes Eph 1:5

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


And not according to the lie, that God looked into the future and saw which dead sinners were going to accept Him, and then responding to them, He predestinated them according to their will For that is just plain made up doctrine of men..

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

The whole basis for your theory is the comparison of the PHYSICAL relationship of Adam with the human race where there is PHYSICAL reproductive genetic seminal characteristics that bind the human race together.

The Truth I proclaim is based upon the Fact that Christ had a Seed in Him..

Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

That seed was life that was in Him Jn 1:4

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The seed was Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us [The Seed of Abraham] in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Christ had The seeds, Life in Him Col 3:3

3For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

That same Life which was in God the Word Jn 1:4


4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Adam was a figure of Him to come Rom 5:14. As Adam had the Physical lives of his seed in him, Christ had the Spiritual Lives of His seed in Him. Thats one of the ways Adam was created in the Image of God. He was created in the Image of the God Man Mediator, which was Christ Jesus 1 Tim 2:5 !

You deny this, you deny Election and everything. And I believe you have denied the Preexistence of Christ, you believe He only existed in purpose. If thats the case, everybody preexisted in purpose, and Christ would not have the Preeminence

 

[savedbymercy]

One Life !

The spiritual life of Jesus Christ and His sheep are one and eternal and always has and always will be ! He that sanctifieth [ Jesus Christ] and they which are sanctified [ whom He died for, His sheep] are all of one:

Heb 2:11,13

11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

They are all of One Father, He is the elder brother, and those He died for are his younger brothers and sisters..The children that God gave Him vs 13

And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me

They are all of One Father and of One Eternal Purpose [ Eph 3:11]

John writes in 1 Jn 5:11

11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

No doubt John had taught the eternal union of Jesus Christ and His people, and that they had been given eternal life decretively and by the Divine Purpose as they had been chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world [ Eph 1:4 & 2 Tim 1:9], for this would be in accord with the record God Gave of His Son. The apostles taught that some had been ordained to eternal life, those would be them who were chosen in christ..Acts 13:48

48And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Only those ordained to eternal life believed..and such ordaining took place by God before the world began..

The word ordained here is the greek word tasso and means:

1. to put in order, to station
3. to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
   1. to assign (
   2. appoint) a thing to one
4. to appoint, ordain, order
   1. to appoint on one's own responsibility or authority
   2. to appoint mutually, i.e. agree upon

Also the word is in the perfect passive tense ! Noting something that took place in the past once and for all, and continues into the present !

The perfect tense is a rare tense because it actually accounts for action in the past, present and future at one time.

And the word is in the passive voice, meaning they did not ordain themselves, but were ordained by someone else !

This ordaining also has to do with their Eternal Adoption in Christ before the world began..

The word for adoption is the greek word:

huiothesia which means:

adoption, adoption as sons

a) that relationship which God was pleased to establish between himself and the Israelites in preference to all other nations

b) the nature and condition of the true disciples in Christ, who by receiving the Spirit of God into their souls become sons of God

c) the blessed state looked for in the future life after the visible return of Christ from heaven

Adoption as Sons, the word comes from two words huio= son and tithmi which means:

to set, put, place to set, fix establish

a) to set forth

b) to establish, ordain

So the idea of adoption is to set or place as Sons, and of course the ideal of ordain is also " to put in order" arrange

The elect were ordained or put in the order [ adopted] as Sons which ensured them eternal life with The Son, because of the Life they had with the Son, through their being adopted or chosen in Him before the foundation of the world..and this is why they consequently believe, having been ordain or adopted into eternal life in the Son before the world began !

This eternal life is given to all the Chosen or Adopted Children experimentally by Jesus Christ, this is done by the Holy Ghost and He causes by their new birth, for the adopted ones to receive the Adoption of Sons Gal 4:5

To redeem them that were under the law, that [in order that] we might receive the adoption of sons.

All those redeemed, will receive the Spirit of adoption sometime during their Physical lifetime, for this evidences their Election and Adoption in Christ before the world began..and their Eternal Union with Him as well..

Of His sheep it is stated by Him :

Jn 10:28

And I give unto them [His sheep] eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jn 17:2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

That is, that He may give it to them experimentally, for it had been given to them decretively and by eternal purpose in Christ, before the world began..

 

[Dr. Walter]

One Life !

The spiritual life of Jesus Christ and His sheep are one and eternal and always has and always will be ! He that sanctifieth [ Jesus Christ] and they which are sanctified [ whom He died for, His sheep] are all of one:

Heb 2:11,13

11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

They are all of One Father, He is the elder brother, and those He died for are his younger brothers and sisters..The children that God gave Him vs 13

And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me

They are all of One Father and of One Eternal Purpose [ Eph 3:11]

John writes in 1 Jn 5:11

11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

No doubt John had taught the eternal union of Jesus Christ and His people, and that they had been given eternal life decretively and by the Divine Purpose as they had been chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world [ Eph 1:4 & 2 Tim 1:9], for this would be in accord with the record God Gave of His Son. The apostles taught that some had been ordained to eternal life, those would be them who were chosen in christ..Acts 13:48

48And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Only those ordained to eternal life believed..and such ordaining took place by God before the world began..

The word ordained here is the greek word tasso and means:

1. to put in order, to station
3. to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
   1. to assign (
   2. appoint) a thing to one
4. to appoint, ordain, order
   1. to appoint on one's own responsibility or authority
   2. to appoint mutually, i.e. agree upon

Also the word is in the perfect passive tense ! Noting something that took place in the past once and for all, and continues into the present !

The perfect tense is a rare tense because it actually accounts for action in the past, present and future at one time.

And the word is in the passive voice, meaning they did not ordain themselves, but were ordained by someone else !

This ordaining also has to do with their Eternal Adoption in Christ before the world began..

The word for adoption is the greek word:

huiothesia which means:

adoption, adoption as sons

a) that relationship which God was pleased to establish between himself and the Israelites in preference to all other nations

b) the nature and condition of the true disciples in Christ, who by receiving the Spirit of God into their souls become sons of God

c) the blessed state looked for in the future life after the visible return of Christ from heaven

Adoption as Sons, the word comes from two words huio= son and tithmi which means:

to set, put, place to set, fix establish

a) to set forth

b) to establish, ordain

So the idea of adoption is to set or place as Sons, and of course the ideal of ordain is also " to put in order" arrange

The elect were ordained or put in the order [ adopted] as Sons which ensured them eternal life with The Son, because of the Life they had with the Son, through their being adopted or chosen in Him before the foundation of the world..and this is why they consequently believe, having been ordain or adopted into eternal life in the Son before the world began !

This eternal life is given to all the Chosen or Adopted Children experimentally by Jesus Christ, this is done by the Holy Ghost and He causes by their new birth, for the adopted ones to receive the Adoption of Sons Gal 4:5

To redeem them that were under the law, that [in order that] we might receive the adoption of sons.

All those redeemed, will receive the Spirit of adoption sometime during their Physical lifetime, for this evidences their Election and Adoption in Christ before the world began..and their Eternal Union with Him as well..

Of His sheep it is stated by Him :

Jn 10:28

And I give unto them [His sheep] eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jn 17:2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

That is, that He may give it to them experimentally, for it had been given to them decretively and by eternal purpose in Christ, before the world began..

Not a single solitary text provided has proven the idiotic idea that the SPIRITU NATURE of God before creation possessed seminal seed within that nature. Not a single solitary text provided has shown that they were anything other than PURPOSED/PLANNED/PROJECTED seed rather than EXISTENT seed within the Being of God's own Spirit Nature!!!!!!!

 

[savedbymercy]

Of His sheep it is stated by Him :

Jn 10:28

And I give unto them [His sheep] eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jn 17:2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

That is, that He may give it to them experimentally, for it had been given to them decretively and by Eternal Purpose in Christ, before the world began..

Of His sheep He states, I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish; for it is not written and I give unto them eternal lives [plural], because the life given to the sheep or church is but one life, and that one life given is in the Son, and that it is hidden with Christ in God, and when He who is our life shall appear, we shall appear with Him in Glory..Col 3:4

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

This life was ours before the foundation, whereas our names [ if you are elect] were written in the book of life, or chosen in Him before the world began..thats how long He has been the life of His Church Ps 90:1

He that is our life is not so because of freewill choice or decision of man, for i could no more choose Christ to be my life, as i could choose Adam to be my life, for as I was put in Adam by Gods Sovereign Choice, So likewise I was put in Jesus Christ by Gods Sovereign choice. The Spiritual life was given to the church ages ago, it was hidden with Christ in God [ In the Divine Purpose in Christ see Eph 3:11] Just as now the Glory that has been given to the church [ Jn 17:22], is hidden with Christ in God, but when He shall appear, it will be manifested..

 

[Dr. Walter]

That is, that He may give it to them experimentally, for it had been given to them decretively and by Eternal Purpose in Christ, before the world began..

Read what you have said above. They were given it only "decretively" not actually, in any kind of previous existent condition/state or reality. Your idea of "experientially" refers to actuality or reality.

Here is where your problem lies and read this and consider what I am going to say because you have yet to deal with it although I have repeated it over and over and over again:

We were "in Christ" before the world began in no different sense than we were glorified "in Christ" before the world began. We were uncondemned in Christ before the world began in no different sense than we were glorified in Christ before the world began. All by decree, by eternal purpose and you just as might as well as argue that we were NEVER UNGLORIFIED due to being "in Christ" before the world began as to argue we were NEVER CONDEMNED due to being "in Christ before the world began!!!


Can you understand what I said???? I doubt it. You are spiritually blind, spiritually deaf to common sense truth on this subject.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

Read what you have said above. They were given it only "decretively" not actually,

It was given to them decretively as it pertains to their experiencing it in time, in the flesh, However the Elect had it actually in Christ before the world began, for Grace which is the Spring of all Spiritual Blessings, was actually given to them in Christ Jesus their Head. 2 Tim 1:9


9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

The Only way for it not to be actual is if Christ Jesus their Head did not Actually exist, which He did, for He says in John 17:5

5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Of course it seems to me that you also reject the Truth that Christ Jesus existed before the world began as well.

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



It was given to them decretively as it pertains to their experiencing it in time, in the flesh, However the Elect had it actually in Christ before the world began, for Grace which is the Spring of all Spiritual Blessings, was actually given to them in Christ Jesus their Head.

Be consistent!!! Apply what you say here to glorification because glorification is found in the same pre-creation decree/purpose - Rom. 8:28-30

Don't tell us that the elect were never under condemnation "in Christ" unless you can tell us also they were never unglorified as well! Be consistent as all of these aspects "in Christ" "justified" "glorified" are found in the very same eternal decree!

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

Be consistent!!!

I am consistent, you cannot understand. Its not in my power to give you understanding, only God can..

Don't tell us that the elect were never under condemnation "in Christ"

I have dealt with that in another thread !

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



I am consistent, you cannot understand. Its not in my power to give you understanding, only God can..



I have dealt with that in another thread !

I have dealt with your other thread. You are not consistent. You cannot claim the elect were NEVER under condemnation because they were already "justified" in Christ "according to his purpose" before the world began when the very same text speaking about the very same eternal purpose in Christ also claims they were "called" and "glorified" in Christ before the world began. To be consistent you will have to claim the elect were not only NEVER undercondemnation, but NEVER unregenerated and NEVER unglorified. However, to make such a claim would expose your intepretation for what it is - false!

The truth is they were completely saved only in the MIND of God as according to His PURPOSE but NEVER saved at all in regard to time and reality until the redemption was actually applied to them. Hence, they were UNDER condemnation until application. They were unregenerated until application. They were unglorified until application. So simple, so clear, so Biblical, so logical that only a person blinded by error cannot see.

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



I am consistent, you cannot understand. Its not in my power to give you understanding, only God can..

You are not consistent with your view of "in" Christ or "in" Adam analogy. Physical Union with Adam means EQUAL in nature with Adam and therefore Spiritual Union with God the preincarnate Son would mean EQUAL in nature with God the Son. Adam was HUMAN in nature and therefore all who were in UNION with Adam were HUMAN in nature. The Preincarnate Son is GOD in nature and therefore all who are actually and realistically in spiritual UNION with the Preincarnate Son God must be GOD in nature.

The phrase "in Christ" has nothing to do with any pre-incarnate spiritual union with God the Son. It has to do only with God's purpose of salvation through Christ and its application in time. Spiritual union and sonship have nothing to do with being derived from the actual substance and nature of GOD substance. Instead, it has to do with created LIKENESS or IMAGE of God in time and space and in regard to moral and rationale likeness and legal position or IN THE PLACE OF God the Son in regard to the Law's demands and penalty. The restoration of LIKENESS or IMAGE is due to regeneration. Regeneration is not partaking of the divine nature as far as its substance and non-communicable attributes but as far as partaking of the indwelling of the Spirit of God with the human spirit and partaking of the communicable attributes of God. It is not a mixture of Divine and human spirit as some amagulmation of Divine and Human spirit.

The preincarnate Son of God had only SPIRITUAL UNION with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

You are confusing what is in the MIND OF GOD with what actually objectively exists in time and space as a result of the MIND OF GOD through creation.

 

[savedbymercy]

Christ was the Head of His Church in the Beginning Col 1:15-18

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Who is the beginning is here qualifying Christ as the Head of His Body the Church.

And as the Head of the Church vs 17 says He is before all Things. So the Head of the Church He is before all Things, and So, His Body with Him is before all Things as well.

As such Grace was given the members of His body before the world began. 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This could not be True if #1. Christ did not exist before the world began and #2 If there was not a Real Union with Him and His Body before the world began..

 

[convicted1]

I do not deny there is an eternal union between Christ and his elect in the sense of PURPOSE before the world began and in regeneration in time and space.

However, there is not one iota of scripture that teaches any kind of actual spiritual union existing between Christ and the elect prior to regeneration - none, nada, zilch, zip!

To claim that there is ACTUAL SPIRITUAL UNION existing before the world began between Christ and His elect so that they are SEMINALLY part of his Spiritual nature is polytheism pure and simple.

For SBG's posts to be correct, then Jesus had no reason to die for us. If they were in Christ eternally as he purports, then they were never lost at any point in their lives, because they were in Christ before they were born. Jesus dying for us would be a "moot point". He came to seek and save that which was lost. Then I guess none of them(elect) were ever lost, and Jesus didn't die for them, either. This is how his stance comes across to me.