Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Faith believes in the saving blood, you say Jesus blood doesnt save anyone. So you lack Faith in His Blood
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
What happen to this:
- an appeasing, propitiating
- the means of appeasing, a propitiation
G2434 - hilasmos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)
G2434 - ἱλασμός hilasmós, hil-as-mos'; atonement, i.e. (concretely) an expiator:—propitiation.
What is appeasing, and who is appeased ?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@Silverhair
Those who Christ died for are saved, for they shall never die in their sins alienated from God, they shall be saved by His Life. Now if one is guaranteed to be saved by Christs Life, after being reconciled by His death, then they cant be lost.
Now we know people are going to be lost, so Christ could not have died for them and reconciled them to God by His death.
Those who Christ died for are saved, for they shall never die in their sins alienated from God, they shall be saved by His Life. Now if one is guaranteed to be saved by Christs Life, after being reconciled by His death, then they cant be lost.
Now we know people are going to be lost, so Christ could not have died for them and reconciled them to God by His death.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Not according to the bible is doesn't.
We are not save until we are in Christ and that only happens after we have trusted in the risen Christ.
By Christ's death we have been reconciled to God, not saved.
You are trusting in your calvinist religion not the word of God.
You need to trust the clear scripture to help ypu understand the not so clear but you are trying to impose your religion on the not so clear and ignoring the clear. It is nor wonder that you have such a hard time understanding the truths of God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Wrong BF. I believe that Christ shed His blood on the cross and was the propitiation, the atoning sacrifice, for not just my sins but the sins of all humanity. I also believe that I am saved by the grace of God through faith in the risen Christ Jesus just as the bible tells.
The difference between you an me BF is I believe the whole gospel message as found in 1Co 15:3-4 but it seems you only believe vs 3 as you ignore vs 4.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
What happen to this:
- an appeasing, propitiating
- the means of appeasing, a propitiation
G2434 - hilasmos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)
G2434 - ἱλασμός hilasmós, hil-as-mos'; atonement, i.e. (concretely) an expiator:—propitiation.www.blueletterbible.org
What is appeasing, and who is appeased ?
Are you telling the truth when you say you actually preach? With some of the questions you ask I really have my doubts.
appeasing
to bring to a state of peace, quiet, ease, calm, or contentment; pacify; soothe.
to satisfy, allay, or relieve; assuage.
Synonyms: placate, calm
PROPITIATION
In theology, the atonement or atoning sacrifice offered to God to assuage his wrath and render him propitious to sinners. Christ is the propitiation for the sins of men. Rom 3. 1 John 2.
propitiate
propitiated, propitiating
to make favorably inclined; appease; conciliate
Christ is the propitiation sacrifice that propitiates
God the father.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
There is your universalism logic again BF. You are trusting in your calvistic religion not the word of God. Christ died for the whole world so your logic would have everyone saved.
Christ's death did not save anyone but it made the whole world saveable.
Christ died for the whole world so logically He died for those that are saved.
You almost have it BF. All are guaranteed to be saved IF they believe in Christ Jesus. All have the chance to be saved when they freely trust in the risen Christ Jesus.
Why do you continue to deny the word of God BF?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Yeah according to both Isa 53:5 and 1 Pet 2:24 healed means saved. Its the greek word in 1 Peter ἰάομαι:
- to cure, heal
- to make whole
- to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation
To bring about ones Salvation, freed them from sins. They are saved. Now how did it happen according to 1 Pet 2:24
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
When God is propitated, His wrath against them and their sins, has been satisfied, He is at peace with them. Now that is not the case for them who Gods wrath is against them and their sins, like these Eph 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Its no way Christ is their propitiation, nor are they reconciled to God by His Death . So please explain how they are part of the whole world of 1 Jn 2:2
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
How could Christ have died for them He by His Death reconciled to God, when they shall be saved by His Life ? So how could he have died for them lost going to hell ?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Yes we can be made whole through what we see in the whole gospel message BF. You want to have Christ's death save but then want to limit that to a select group. But neither of those views are supported via clear scripture.
We are reconciled to God but not saved by Christ's death,
We appropriate our freedom from sin's tyranny when we come to God in repentance and faith not before.
The expression healed means “to be forgiven.” Peter is saying that the scourging Jesus received before he was crucified and the wounds inflicted on him when he was crucified were the penalty Jesus paid for the redemption of the believer. Baker's New Testament Commentary
The separation between man and God has been bridged and God can now forgive and save those that will trust in His risen son.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Read the bible BF. Try doing so without your religious bias.
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Does that make it easier for you to understand BF?
You asked how some could end up in hell.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
What does heal mean in 1 Pet 2:24 ?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@Silverhair
Scripture doesnt say nobody is saved by His death, not ever Thats your falsehood. To be reconciled to God is to be saved by His death, and the reconciled shall be saved by His Life. So the reconciled are saved, period. So quite naturally, the unsaved on their way to hell, Christ never reconciled them to God by His death.
Scripture doesnt say nobody is saved by His death, not ever Thats your falsehood. To be reconciled to God is to be saved by His death, and the reconciled shall be saved by His Life. So the reconciled are saved, period. So quite naturally, the unsaved on their way to hell, Christ never reconciled them to God by His death.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Propitiation and reconciliation are one and the same. Heb 2:17
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
This word reconciliation is the greek word hilaskomai :
- to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self
- to become propitious, be placated or appeased
- to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful
- to expiate, make propitiation for
Same word for propitiation. So the world in 1 Jn 2:2 is the reconciled world, shall be saved by His Life. Now we know folk going to hell under Gods wrath,
So how in carnation can they belong to the reconciled world of 1 Jn 2:2 ? They cant, its impossible lest you calling God a liar
I have no choice but to give credit where credit is due, Satan is indeed the master of deception!
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
By His Stripes ye were healed !
1 Pet 2:24
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
This is one of the most damaging verses to the false claims of the false teachers, that state that Christ's Death alone or here called His Stripes, does not save those He died for ! One of the meanings of the word healed here is to bring about ones Salvation, to effect it. Its the greek word iaomai:
I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.
iáomai (a primitive verb, NAS dictionary) – healing, particularly as supernatural and bringing attention to the Lord Himself as the Great Physician (cf. Is 53:4,5).
The word is used in Lk 17:15
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
/iáomai ("to heal") draws the attention to the Lord, the supernatural Healer, i.e. beyond the physical healing itself and its benefits
The Death of Christ alone emits or sends forth a Supernatural healing unto those He died for !
It means :
to make whole i. e. to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation: Matthew 13:15; John 12:40; Acts 28:27 (from Isaiah 6:10)
In other words, His Stripes causes, effects, brings about the Spiritual conversion of all for whom He died, that's Salvation !
Now Peter by Inspiration of God credits solely the Death of Christ, or His Stripes for the Salvation of the Believers He wrote to !
Again this Truth is damaging to the false witness of those who say, the death of Christ does not save anyone ! It makes them a Liar !
1 Pet 2:24
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
This is one of the most damaging verses to the false claims of the false teachers, that state that Christ's Death alone or here called His Stripes, does not save those He died for ! One of the meanings of the word healed here is to bring about ones Salvation, to effect it. Its the greek word iaomai:
I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.
iáomai (a primitive verb, NAS dictionary) – healing, particularly as supernatural and bringing attention to the Lord Himself as the Great Physician (cf. Is 53:4,5).
The word is used in Lk 17:15
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
/iáomai ("to heal") draws the attention to the Lord, the supernatural Healer, i.e. beyond the physical healing itself and its benefits
The Death of Christ alone emits or sends forth a Supernatural healing unto those He died for !
It means :
to make whole i. e. to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation: Matthew 13:15; John 12:40; Acts 28:27 (from Isaiah 6:10)
In other words, His Stripes causes, effects, brings about the Spiritual conversion of all for whom He died, that's Salvation !
Now Peter by Inspiration of God credits solely the Death of Christ, or His Stripes for the Salvation of the Believers He wrote to !
Again this Truth is damaging to the false witness of those who say, the death of Christ does not save anyone ! It makes them a Liar !
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
As much as you would like it to it does not mean saved BF.
The relationship with God has been repaired so the God can save those that will freely trust in His risen son.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF you need to think through what you are saying.
Since the whole world is reconciled to God through Christ on the cross you have just made the claim that the whole world will be saved.
That is universalism BF, a heresy.
The bible does not say there a no unicorns either, so do you believe there are unicorns BF?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You keep asking the question BF and we keep giving you the answer from the bible but you just will not accept it.
So I will try once more and perhaps this time it will sink in.
G2433
- Original: ἱλάσκομαι
- Transliteration: Hilaskomai
- Phonetic: hil-as’-kom-ahee
- Definition:
1. to render one’s self, to appease, conciliate to one’s self
a. to become propitious, be placated or appeased
b. to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful
NOTE: The G2433 does not mean SAVED.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation G2433 for the sins of the people. KJV
G2434
- Original: ἱλασμός
- Transliteration: Hilasmos
- Phonetic: hil-as-mos’
- Definition:
1. an appeasing, propitiating
2. the means of appeasing, a propitiation
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation G2434 for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. KJV
NOTE: The G2434 does not mean SAVED.
G2644
- Original: καταλλάσσω
- Transliteration: Katallasso
- Phonetic: kat-al-las’-so
- Definition:
1. to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
a. to reconcile (those who are at variance)
b. return to favour with, be reconciled to one
c. to receive one into favour
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled G2644 to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, G2644 we shall be saved by his life. KJV
NOTE: The G2444 does not mean SAVED.
God has been appeased through the death of Jesus on the cross so that all can be saved through faith in the risen Christ.
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