Predestination Is God's Identification As The true and Living God

[Zaatar71]

Silverhair said;
I mean it could just be the you have evanescent faith and at any moment it will be snatched away from you as it was not your faith to start with, it had to be given to you.
Even the fact that you say you believe is only because you think God determined that you would.

So in reality your whole religion is just a house of cards.

But as a calvinist you are consistent. Wrong, but consistent.

But really how consistent are you?

If Calvinism is true I can't think of a better excuse for an atheist than the one that Calvinism ultimately gives him.
They can honestly say, if Calvinism is true I was born a God hater without the ability to believe in my own God unless He unilaterally picked me before I was even born for reasons that He never reveals and gives me this miracle of faith causing me to believe.

I can't think of a better excuse in the world than I was born unable to believe without a miracle and God withheld that miracle from me.

No Silverhair, All men are responsible to repent and believe the gospel, they have no excuse. You had just denied the supernatural work of THe Spirit Of God once again, so I would be more concerned with your errant views than what I am doing! Enjoying our interactions!

 

[Silverhair]

No Silverhair, All men are responsible to repent and believe the gospel, they have no excuse. You had just denied the supernatural work of THe Spirit Of God once again, so I would be more concerned with your errant views than what I am doing! Enjoying our interactions!

All men are responsible but not under the divine determinism of your calvinist religion. Responsibility requires a free will which what God has given to all mankind.

But I am glad to see that you are starting to come around to the truth. It seems you are starting to understand why calvinism cannot be true.

Remember ZA it is your confessions LBCF/WCF that say God determines all things, not just some things. Determinism is one of the hills your philosophy dies on.

I do note you make many attempts to wiggle out of the self made trap of your philosophy but you have yet to provide any substantive defense of your unbiblical view.

Yes I do enjoy watching those of the C/R try to defend their pagan based philosophy.

It is easy to defend the word of God but very hard for you to defend the words of augustine, calvin and all those other luminaries of the C/R religion.

 

[Zaatar71]

All men are responsible but not under the divine determinism of your calvinist religion. Responsibility requires a free will which what God has given to all mankind.

But I am glad to see that you are starting to come around to the truth. It seems you are starting to understand why calvinism cannot be true.

Remember ZA it is your confessions LBCF/WCF that say God determines all things, not just some things. Determinism is one of the hills your philosophy dies on.

I do note you make many attempts to wiggle out of the self made trap of your philosophy but you have yet to provide any substantive defense of your unbiblical view.

Yes I do enjoy watching those of the C/R try to defend their pagan based philosophy.

It is easy to defend the word of God but very hard for you to defend the words of augustine, calvin and all those other luminaries of the C/R religion.

Silverhair, You cannot begin to mount a biblical case against the doctrines of grace... Look at your posts....Augustine was a manechian gnostic, it is pagan philosophy, blah, blah, blah..... you offer no scripture. You speak of philosophy, but that all comes from those who oppose scripture. You did not answer a basic question! In your world, what exists that God does not control? Do things happen that God does not ordain to come to pass?

 

[Ben1445]

what exists that God does not control? Do things happen that God does not ordain to come to pass?

Unbelief, Apostasy, Sin, to name a few.

 

[Silverhair]

Silverhair, You cannot begin to mount a biblical case against the doctrines of grace... Look at your posts....Augustine was a manechian gnostic, it is pagan philosophy, blah, blah, blah..... you offer no scripture. You speak of philosophy, but that all comes from those who oppose scripture. You did not answer a basic question! In your world, what exists that God does not control? Do things happen that God does not ordain to come to pass?

I do note that you do not deny that the basis of your religion is pagan. It is historical fact that you seem to want to ignore.

The problem for you ZA is that you have to provide scripture that supports your view. Your TULIP/DoG do not agree with the word of God.

Joh 3:14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
Joh 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
For God So Loved the World
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

To believe God requires a free will ZA.
God says anyone can be saved by believing so no determinism
Even to reject God requires a free will

Wow that took a long time to dismantle your vaunted TULIP/DoG

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Salvation is the gift of God for those that believe. Again we see free will ZA. And also no determinism.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

I will want for your clear biblical texts that support your TuLIP/DoG. But I will not hold my breath waiting.

 

[Silverhair]

This presents a fair description of calvinist determinism and the logical consequence of it

Calvinists believe that “God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass.” This is what Calvinists refer to a God’s eternal decree. This means that all things, down to the minutest details, are predetermined to occur as they do by God’s will alone. God is the cause of every historical event in every minute detail, which includes every attitude, belief, desire, decision and action, whether for good or for evil, of both men, angels and demons, as well as their eternal destinies. And all this was predetermined before they were even created or born. Note that this would include the thoughts, attitudes, beliefs, desires and actions of Satan himself. Hence, it is God who causes all things to occur according to His predetermined plan. Things must and will occur as God has predetermined. This is also how the Calvinist defines God’s sovereignty. Divine sovereignty equates to theistic determinism.

Chapter 8 – Calvinist Attempts to Justify Sovereignty as Theistic Determinism

In the previous chapters I introduced you to the basic tenets of Reformed Calvinism and the various problems those tenets raise. I also touched upon the Calvinist mode of interpretive thought…

goodnewsapologetics.com