The True Gospel Preacher

[Charlie24]

Proverbs 16:9
A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Ok, I see, the theory of Calvinism is directed by the Lord.

So it must be that I have devised my own way.

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Zaatar71]

But to be able to openly rebel requires a free will ZA.

No, it requires a self will that wants to disobey.

But since you do not think man has a free will then that open rebellion must have been decreed and that makes you wonder why God said He desires all to come to repentance.

For rebellion to take place, those sins were ordained to happen. God does not cause it but plans accordingly

Calvinists do have an odd view of God when you think through what they say.

If you ever think it out biblically, you will come to the light.

 

[Zaatar71]

Ok, I see, the theory of Calvinism is directed by the Lord.

So it must be that I have devised my own way.

Thanks for clearing that up!

The truth of God's word , that you mock by using Calvinism as a pejorative, is what we are meant to live by. The fact that you freely reject is the reason you lack understanding. Calvinists believe the verse as written.

 

[Charlie24]

The truth of God's word , that you mock by using Calvinism as a pejorative, is what we are meant to live by. The fact that you freely reject is the reason you lack understanding. Calvinists believe the verse as written.

If you call God sending the majority to Hell without any chance of escape, and that is what you live by, I can only feel sorrow for you.

 

[Silverhair]

No, it requires a self will that wants to disobey.

Self will is free will ZA or it is determined by God so then He becomes responsible for whatever the person does.

So which is it ZA man or God is responsible for the mans sin?

For rebellion to take place, those sins were ordained to happen. God does not cause it but plans accordingly

Ordained
having been decreed, appointed, or formally established by some authority.

That fits right in with your divine determinism ZA.
\If God ordains all the sin He causes all the sin unless you think man can overrule God?

And lest you forget what your WCF/LBCF says
"God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass"

That does not leave a lot of options there ZA although I do know they tried to soften it but kind of hard to change decreed unchangeably, all things to mean decreed changeably somethings.

If you ever think it out biblically, you will come to the light.

If ever think it through biblically you will see that the calvinist religion is untenable. Why to many contradictions the greatest of which is not being biblical.

 

[Silverhair]

The truth of God's word , that you mock by using Calvinism as a pejorative, is what we are meant to live by. The fact that you freely reject is the reason you lack understanding. Calvinists believe the verse as written.

ZA you have to change "directs" to determines for it to fit your religion.

God gives us direction but He does not determine what we think and do.

If you could get past your calvinism you would understand that.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

No

What exactly do you disagree with in that statement, and why? And by chance are you a Jack Hyles listener?

 

[atpollard]

Please show me Scripture that says God cannot give free choice and still be sovereign.

I make no such claim, so it is not mine to prove. Here is my claim …

I claim that God’s offer is made to all:

Romans 10:5-17 [ESV]
5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 "or 'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.


I claim that people freely choose to reject God’s offer because THAT is their nature:

John 3:18-20 [ESV]
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

Romans 1:18-20 [ESV]
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Romans 3:10-12 [ESV]
10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

Ephesians 2:1-3 [ESV]
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-- 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.


I claim that a SOVEREIGN GOD has the right and ability to do something about our free but fallen will to reject Him:

Ezekiel 36:26 [ESV]
26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

John 6:44-45 [ESV]
44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me--

John 10:27-30 [ESV]
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

Acts 16:14 [ESV]
14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

Romans 9:15-26 [ESV]
15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'" 26 "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"

Ephesians 2:4-10 [ESV]
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Philippians 2:13 [ESV]
13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

 

[Ben1445]

I make no such claim, so it is not mine to prove. Here is my claim …

I claim that God’s offer is made to all:

Romans 10:5-17 [ESV]
5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 "or 'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.


I claim that people freely choose to reject God’s offer because THAT is their nature:

John 3:18-20 [ESV]
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

Romans 1:18-20 [ESV]
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Romans 3:10-12 [ESV]
10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

Ephesians 2:1-3 [ESV]
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-- 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.


I claim that a SOVEREIGN GOD has the right and ability to do something about our free but fallen will to reject Him:

Ezekiel 36:26 [ESV]
26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

John 6:44-45 [ESV]
44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me--

John 10:27-30 [ESV]
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

Acts 16:14 [ESV]
14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

Romans 9:15-26 [ESV]
15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'" 26 "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"

Ephesians 2:4-10 [ESV]
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Philippians 2:13 [ESV]
13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

While I agree with everything you’ve said, I would like to clear up one point. Is your claim that man cannot respond to God because it is their nature?
Do you believe God has to change them in order for them to believe?
Do they have to be saved before they can be saved?

 

[Zaatar71]

If you call God sending the majority to Hell without any chance of escape, and that is what you live by, I can only feel sorrow for you.

Let's look at what you are posting Charlie before you feel so sorry for me!

God is going to save a multitude of sinners to New Heaven/New earth.

How manty people God does, or does not save is 100% up to Him!

Other's who go to second death go there justly!

Who are you to question or judge God in what he has perfectly determined is the righteous judgment?

When you cast aspersions on God ,you come across quite foolish.

Where did I post that God sends the majority to hell? Do you want to post strawmen on my behalf, so you can then seem to dismantle them,lol

 

[atpollard]

While I agree with everything you’ve said, I would like to clear up one point. Is your claim that man cannot respond to God because it is their nature?

Not “cannot” but “will not”. A Lion is physically capable of eating leaves and berries, but it is not in the nature of a Lion to desire to be a herbivore. Therefore a lion freely chooses to kill and eat meat.

God asks nothing of man that is beyond our physical abilities. However, it is not within our fallen nature to DESIRE to “think” like God thinks (when someone steals from me, my thoughts do not naturally turn to forgiving him seventy times seven times). When someone slaps me across the cheek, my flesh does not reflexively turn my head to offer him the other cheek. So when God offers a “salvation” predicated on “loving enemies” and forgiveness based on the innocent choosing suffering and death so the guilty can receive love and blessings … my human nature instinctively registers that as “nonsensical”.

So ”will not” rather than “can not”.
(It is a slave to sin thing.)

Do you believe God has to change them in order for them to believe?

Yes, but rather than “change” I would prefer to describe it as “empower them to believe”.
Like ‘prevenient grace’ (of Charles Wesley fame), it enables us to make the ‘right choice’ (rather than the choice in bondage to our sin and at enmity with God).

Do they have to be saved before they can be saved?

We are chained in a pit of slavery to our sin and a cursed world. The Father has already chosen whom he will adopt. The Holy Spirit shatters our chains. We are now free to rush to the saving arms of Jesus. The Holy Spirit then dwells INSIDE US … making us an irrevocable part of the family. We impatiently await the divine appointment that marks the day that we will go to live with the FATHER in his home, forever.

We need to be rescued as part of our salvation, but salvation is a process that began in eternity past with a plan and ends in eternity future with a new reality … in between comes a Justification, Sanctification and a Glorification (some of which started 2000 years before we were even born and some of which we get to actively participate in).

 

[Charlie24]

Let's look at what you are posting Charlie before you feel so sorry for me!

God is going to save a multitude of sinners to New Heaven/New earth.

How manty people God does, or does not save is 100% up to Him!

Other's who go to second death go there justly!

Who are you to question or judge God in what he has perfectly determined is the righteous judgment?

When you cast aspersions on God ,you come across quite foolish.

Where did I post that God sends the majority to hell? Do you want to post strawmen on my behalf, so you can then seem to dismantle them,lol

LOL

 

[Ben1445]

Not “cannot” but “will not”. A Lion is physically capable of eating leaves and berries, but it is not in the nature of a Lion to desire to be a herbivore. Therefore a lion freely chooses to kill and eat meat.

God asks nothing of man that is beyond our physical abilities. However, it is not within our fallen nature to DESIRE to “think” like God thinks (when someone steals from me, my thoughts do not naturally turn to forgiving him seventy times seven times). When someone slaps me across the cheek, my flesh does not reflexively turn my head to offer him the other cheek. So when God offers a “salvation” predicated on “loving enemies” and forgiveness based on the innocent choosing suffering and death so the guilty can receive love and blessings … my human nature instinctively registers that as “nonsensical”.

So ”will not” rather than “can not”.
(It is a slave to sin thing.)

I agree with you here.

Yes, but rather than “change” I would prefer to describe it as “empower them to believe”.
Like ‘prevenient grace’ (of Charles Wesley fame), it enables us to make the ‘right choice’ (rather than the choice in bondage to our sin and at enmity with God).

My understanding of prevenient grace is that it is available to all. Would you say it is not available to all?
If it is available to all, I don’t understand the purpose of the doctrine. If prevenient grace is given selectively, I can see why it is something to be concerned about. If it is available to all, what is the purpose of dissecting it out of salvation or choice or wherever one desires to put it?
It is no more a clear doctrine of Scripture than Calvinism can claim honestly.

We are chained in a pit of slavery to our sin and a cursed world. The Father has already chosen whom he will adopt.

Now I’m confused again. Paul talks about being bound by sin and being freed from sin as being in Christ and saved.
You talk about being freed from sin but not saved. I know what Paul is talking about. I don’t know where this enabling idea comes from. God made us to be able to respond to Him already. I don’t know where this extra creation comes from.
1. We are physically created. But dead in sin.
2. We are born again.
3. We are born again, again (because the first time we were given life again, regenerated, it didn’t count)
How come Paul just tells people to believe? Why doesn’t he teach preach prevenient grace or salvation without choice? Both of these positions are over-complications of a salvation that is able to be understood by babes.

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

The Holy Spirit shatters our chains. We are now free to rush to the saving arms of Jesus. The Holy Spirit then dwells INSIDE US … making us an irrevocable part of the family. We impatiently await the divine appointment that marks the day that we will go to live with the FATHER in his home, forever.

We need to be rescued as part of our salvation, but salvation is a process that began in eternity past with a plan and ends in eternity future with a new reality … in between comes a Justification, Sanctification and a Glorification (some of which started 2000 years before we were even born and some of which we get to actively participate in).

I think we overdo this too much.

 

[Zaatar71]

LOL

Laughing at the post, is why you remain ignorant of truth,lol

 

[atpollard]

My understanding of prevenient grace is that it is available to all. Would you say it is not available to all?
If it is available to all, I don’t understand the purpose of the doctrine. If prevenient grace is given selectively, I can see why it is something to be concerned about. If it is available to all, what is the purpose of dissecting it out of salvation or choice or wherever one desires to put it?
It is no more a clear doctrine of Scripture than Calvinism can claim honestly.

You are correct about ‘prevenient grace’. Mr Wesley, whose work I admire, believed that God’s the solution to the problem of a world in which everyone is born in trouble is a blanket of ‘pre-salvation’ grace to level the playing field for all humanity and restore people to a neutral “free will” from a “slavery to a fallen nature”.

We could debate the scripture forever (it has been going on for 500 years and is still going strong) … however, on a deeply personal and empirical level, I do not see most people as “morally neutral” so I reject the universal application of grace to all unsaved people as Wesley suggests. However, my experience and scripture does seem to point to a reality of a divine grace that DRAWS people to Jesus. Since there is a call for us to CHOOSE and DO (like Romans 10:9-10), there must be some “pre-salvation” grace to empower ”slaves to sin” to make that choice.

So I believe in a selective grace (like opening Lydia’s heart in Acts 16:14) that is part of God’s draw (John 6:44) rather than a general grace like Wesley proposes.

 

[Charlie24]

Laughing at the post, is why you remain ignorant of truth,lol

Well, you are a funny guy!

 

[Ben1445]

You are correct about ‘prevenient grace’. Mr Wesley, whose work I admire, believed that God’s the solution to the problem of a world in which everyone is born in trouble is a blanket of ‘pre-salvation’ grace to level the playing field for all humanity and restore people to a neutral “free will” from a “slavery to a fallen nature”.

We could debate the scripture forever (it has been going on for 500 years and is still going strong) … however, on a deeply personal and empirical level, I do not see most people as “morally neutral” so I reject the universal application of grace to all unsaved people as Wesley suggests. However, my experience and scripture does seem to point to a reality of a divine grace that DRAWS people to Jesus. Since there is a call for us to CHOOSE and DO (like Romans 10:9-10), there must be some “pre-salvation” grace to empower ”slaves to sin” to make that choice.

So I believe in a selective grace (like opening Lydia’s heart in Acts 16:14) that is part of God’s draw (John 6:44) rather than a general grace like Wesley proposes.

I just tried to help someone with a brake job. The bolts were so rusty and tightened, determined not to be moved, that I left them to their reprobate status. I and several others put our time and effort into them. They were stubborn and by nature of their corruption, they would not be moved. Is there anything that can be done for them? While they are “breathing,” I believe that there is. If the car is scrapped there is no more hope for the change necessary. As long as the car is available to be worked on, someone will work on it, someone will water it with PB Blaster. What might actually be needed is that some kind of outside pain of fire be required to make them so uncomfortable that they move. (If I’d had the capacity to do that, I would have).
Sometimes the heat will loosen and sometimes the heat will harden and destroy the part rather than breaking loose from its corruption.
This is what is happening with all men all the time. God moves people towards decision. His Spirit strives with man. At some point God will “give them over to a reprobate mind.”

But again I hear the warning of Christ, “take heed therefore how ye hear.” Is man coming to God on his own. By no means!
In Dan. 2, God tells and shows Nebuchadnezzar that God is giving him a kingdom that is greater than all others. Nebuchadnezzar then understands this that he says…

The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.


In Daniel 3, God shows Nebuchadnezzar that He is strong to save His people from the evil that he intended because they would not worship his statue. Then Nebuchadnezzar understood…

Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.

In Daniel chapter 4, Nebuchadnezzar is warned to know this…

to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

But he said this…

At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon. The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?

And this happened to him…

The kingdom is departed from thee. And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

Till he learned this…

And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation: And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

God taught him in chapter 2. I thought he had it. Chapter 3 and he figures it out again! A little variation on the actual lesson but nearly the same thing. But chapter 4 and Nebuchadnezzar is so stubborn that he is broken and made to be the basest of men.
Finally he figures out what he has been told all along. God gave him his kingdom. His authority over the kingdom is from God.
Why did he still decide to reject God in spite of direct revelation from God to him? Because he had a free will.
Till he knew, not till God shewed everyone else. His own stubbornness must be yielded. I believe that God is constantly working on each man to bring him as low as necessary to be broken. This is part of His natural revelation. God uses this present world to drive men to seek him. Some people hate God for making them have to rely on Him. They turn on the God who made them and loves them.
And so in the judgment of the earth, there will be people who will not respond to the Lord by His judgment.

And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

The fact that they did not repent is astounding. It is not astonishing because they could not repent or had not been enabled to repent. It is mentioned and it is difficult to understand because the judgement of God should correct man but they refuse to be corrected.
Their sin is that much greater because they have no excuse. No ability to lay any charges against God that they were not enabled to believe.

 

[Ben1445]

You are correct about ‘prevenient grace’. Mr Wesley, whose work I admire, believed that God’s the solution to the problem of a world in which everyone is born in trouble is a blanket of ‘pre-salvation’ grace to level the playing field for all humanity and restore people to a neutral “free will” from a “slavery to a fallen nature”.

Simply, I think the solution to the problem of a world in which everyone is born in trouble is not pre-salvation. It is salvation.
I think that it is time to get back to the basics.

 

[Ben1445]

Why do Calvinists believe DOG?




Because they have God backwards.


Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

 

[KJB1611reader]

What exactly do you disagree with in that statement, and why? And by chance are you a Jack Hyles listener?

No.