The True Gospel Preacher

[Ben1445]

How many Squirrels have you led to Christ?
"Every creature" means "every creature", right.

That was about the dumbest statement I’ve ever heard.
You think because squirrels are not included that your non elect neighbor is not included in every creature?

 

[Ben1445]

@Ben1445 …

You have a habit of demonstrating ignorance of reformed theology ever time you state, “you believe” such and such.

Folks in the OT were saved by grace just as we are. They were chosen for salvation, just as we are. God revealed Himself to them, just as He does to us. They had faith in the promised Messiah, just as we do.

atpollard demonstrated the scriptural foundation of unconditional election and irresistible grace. Please keep your promise to show from scripture the phrase “free will choice”.

Concerning Romans 6-7, you are in error because you don’t understand scripture. Paul’s point in that passage is a person doesn’t “escape” slavery. The slave master rules their lives until they die then gives them to the death master.

Clearly, Paul teaches the sin master is in control of the person. The person does the things they know are wrong. The right thing to do, they are not allowed to do because the sin master controls them.

“The wages of sin is death”. Paul is referring to the common practice of a slave master giving small stipends to the slave that could be used to purchase freedom after many years. The only wages the sin master gives is death.

You truly need to attempt to understand reformed theology before making ignorant claims about what is believed.

Peace to you

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

This won’t convince you either.
Let me explain it for you and save you the time.

You say any man means those who God has enabled. You say that God has regenerated him so that he cannot resist the will of God.

You say it. The verses don’t.

Not sure why the invitation is given since they will come to Him anyway in your opinion.

 

[Ben1445]

Often like this:

Acts 16:14 [KJV]
And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.


Sometimes like this:

Act 22:6-10 [NIV]
"About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, 'Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?' " 'Who are you, Lord?' I asked. " 'I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,' he replied. My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me. " 'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. " 'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.'


And God can even draw like this:

2 Timmothy 1:5-6[NIV]
I am reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice and, I am persuaded, now lives in you also. For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands.


The important part is
1. It is GOD.
2. He is the one DRAWING.

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Jesus was lifted up.
But you still reject that all means all.

 

[atpollard]

Do you think Lydia's heart could have been opened if she had rejected the Gospel Paul preached?

We see this as Lydia with a positive response to what Paul said, and the Lord granted her permission to "attend to the things which were spoken of Paul." In other words, she gave her heart to Christ as she believed what Paul had said.

You should reread that passage in Aacts 16 and tell me if I have the order of events backwards. It appears to me that God opened Lydia's heart first, and THEN Lydia believed what she heard Paul speak. Than makes the action of God (open the heart) the CAUSE and the response of Lydia (believe what she heard) the EFFECT. God DREW and Lydia CAME.

Do I have the events backwards according to Luke?

 

[canadyjd]

You are the one who told me OT didn’t apply. I believed that you meant what you said.

I never said the OT doesn’t apply. Don’t know what you are talking about.

Israel was chosen as a nation. Believers are people who respond to the invitation of God to follow Him and obey Him.

Believers are those that respond to God revealing Himself to them, and they always have been.

He did not quote me the exact words which is why I will not quote you exact words.

Fair enough

…
Would you mind quoting me on my Romans 6-7 “error?” I don’t know exactly what you are talking about.

You stated some people escape slavery. In the secular world, that is true. Paul is speaking of spiritual enslavement in Romans 6-7, which is why I pointed out you were in error in your analysis of the passage.

…..
All you “not hypers” can’t accept the reality of what you teach.

Since you continually demonstrate you don’t understand what us “non-hypers” believe, I’ll disregard your assertion I don’t understand the reality of what I believe.

For the record, what I believe is firmly established in scripture. Your inability to recognize that doesn’t change that truth.

Jesus never instructed the disciples to go preach the gospel of some. He told them to preach the gospel to all…..

You are in error because you don’t understand the two fold purpose of proclaiming the Gospel.

Paul states the gospel is like a fragrant aroma. To some, an aroma to life. To others, to death. The gospel draws the elect and condemns the non-elect that hear it and reject.

And then there are those that live and die (billions?) having never heard the gospel. Unless you are like some on the board that say many are saved having never heard the gospel you free willers must ask yourself why God never gave these folks a chance to accept.

All us “non-hypers” know that answer.

Peace to you

 

[Charlie24]

You should reread that passage in Aacts 16 and tell me if I have the order of events backwards. It appears to me that God opened Lydia's heart first, and THEN Lydia believed what she heard Paul speak. Than makes the action of God (open the heart) the CAUSE and the response of Lydia (believe what she heard) the EFFECT. God DREW and Lydia CAME.

Do I have the events backwards according to Luke?

"Whose heart the Lord opened that she...," yes, that is correct, God had already opened her heart before she heard the words of Paul.

God had already prepared her for the words of Paul. Just as Cornelius was prepared before he heard the words of Peter.

God had already set the meeting for them to hear the Gospel,

Both Lydia and Cornelius believed in and worshipped God the Father, but that won't get you saved. God has a prescribed order in which all men are saved, it must be faith in His Son, Jesus Christ.

God setup everything and provided everything for them to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, through His foreknowledge, knowing when they were presented with the Gospel they would believe.

 

[atpollard]

That was about the dumbest statement I’ve ever heard.
You think because squirrels are not included that your non elect neighbor is not included in every creature?

No, I think you are sloppy handling scripture when you throw up "literal proofs" to refute my scripture quotes and don't even bother to mention the obvious "non-literal" nature of the quote you chose to refute me.

The fact that I never said ANYTHING about my neighbor or who I should witness to has certainly not prevented your slinging mud at me and making wild accusations. I have no clue who is elect or non-elect. Do you know who will maintain belief and be glorified and who you are wasting your witness on because they are "rocky soil"? Then why do you assume that I have such knowledge.

Where we differ is that I believe that GOD KNOWS because GOD prepared the soil to make it good soil (like Lydia in Acts 16), so the success or failure of the gospel is not on my ability to persuade somebody's "free will", but merely my faithfulness to deliver a seed to whatever soil is before me ... GOD is responsible for the quality of the soil. If the soil is good, the seed will grow no matter how inexperienced the planter.

 

[atpollard]

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Jesus was lifted up.
But you still reject that all means all.

Explain the drawing of Itzcoatl to Jesus (All means all).

(a man)
(b.1380 - d. 1440)

 

[Layman]

So Jesus effectively told the disciples to go preach the gospel and lie to almost everyone, compelling them to come in.
That is the truth of the parable. Go out and compel them to come in. Every creature? That is who we are sent to. When I go, I don’t carry a lie or false invitation.

How did you come to the conclusion that the disciples would be lying? I don’t feel the need to “compel” anyone into believing, as if I’m trying to sell a product. We preach the Gospel to every creature and if they believe, that’s because God has chosen to save them.

 

[Ben1445]

I never said the OT doesn’t apply. Don’t know what you are talking about.

Sorry, the thought came from atpollard telling me not to quote OT. My mistake. I forgot who I was replying to.

Believers are those that respond to God revealing Himself to them, and they always have been.

Goes without saying. Unbelievers are those that don’t respond to God revealing Himself to them, and they always have been.

You stated some people escape slavery. In the secular world, that is true. Paul is speaking of spiritual enslavement in Romans 6-7, which is why I pointed out you were in error in your analysis of the passage.

I was literally talking about real life as an example of salvation and was not referring to Romans 6-7 and “we that are dead to sin” at all.

Since you continually demonstrate you don’t understand what us “non-hypers” believe, I’ll disregard your assertion I don’t understand the reality of what I believe.

You can’t explain it with a break from hyper. The conclusion of what you teach is hyper-cal.

For the record, what I believe is firmly established in scripture. Your inability to recognize that doesn’t change that truth.

Lots of people believe that the world is flat too. Just because you claim it, doesn’t make it so.

You are in error because you don’t understand the two fold purpose of proclaiming the Gospel.

I know that God isn’t false advertising. He does not deal in lies and misrepresentation.

Paul states the gospel is like a fragrant aroma. To some, an aroma to life. To others, to death. The gospel draws the elect and condemns the non-elect that hear it and reject.

Condemns the unbeliever. Election is the redemption of the body. Romans 8.

And then there are those that live and die (billions?) having never heard the gospel. Unless you are like some on the board that say many are saved having never heard the gospel you free willers must ask yourself why God never gave these folks a chance to accept.

I don’t know that they have not had opportunity. They themselves certainly got there. It is conceivable to me that God has the ability to give everyone what is necessary to seek Him. He promised that those who seek Him will find Him.

All us “non-hypers” know that answer.

Acts 17
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

I can’t believe that Paul preached this non-reformed stuff. Absolutely ridiculous. For him to teach this free will men seeking the Lord stuff. He should read Romans.

 

[Ben1445]

Explain the drawing of Itzcoatl to Jesus (All means all).

(a man)
(b.1380 - d. 1440)

We have been over this already. Look up the other thread.

 

[canadyjd]

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

This won’t convince you either.
Let me explain it for you and save you the time.

Jesus is speaking to a church full of professing Christians in Revelation 3:20. I’m sure the context won’t stop you from believing what you want to believe.

…

Not sure why the invitation is given since they will come to Him anyway in your opinion.

Very good. Accepting the fact you don’t understand is a welcome first step.

Let me explain it to you.

The gospel, according to 1 Corinthian 1, is the God ordained means bring salvation to His people.

The gospel must be preached. Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, dying for our sins, according to the scripture, being buried and raised from death to life, according to the scripture, and being seen by more than 500 people that knew Him to be dead brings glory and honor to Christ and God the Father.

When the gospel is preached, God Holy Spirit convicts the elect of the Truth of Jesus, convicts them of their sin and need for a Savior. Draws them to God by regenerating them, freeing them from their enslavement to sin and allowing them to respond with faith in our Lord Jesus (which they do every time God so works in their lives.)

There, now you know what I believe, though I don’t expect you to agree, I would appreciate it if you didn’t claim I believed anything different from what I have stated.

And, I am fully willing to have a civil conversation about anything I said. Just leave the personal attacks to others.

Peace to you

 

[Ben1445]

How did you come to the conclusion that the disciples would be lying? I don’t feel the need to “compel” anyone into believing, as if I’m trying to sell a product. We preach the Gospel to every creature and if they believe, that’s because God has chosen to save them.

Telling people to come to Christ and believe in Him when they cannot. That is literally a false gospel. Telling them they can do something that can’t is not good news of any sort.

 

[Ben1445]

Jesus is speaking to a church full of professing Christians in Revelation 3:20. I’m sure the context won’t stop you from believing what you want to believe.

Very good. Accepting the fact you don’t understand is a welcome first step.

Let me explain it to you.

The gospel, according to 1 Corinthian 1, is the God ordained means bring salvation to His people.

The gospel must be preached. Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, dying for our sins, according to the scripture, being buried and raised from death to life, according to the scripture, and being seen by more than 500 people that knew Him to be dead brings glory and honor to Christ and God the Father.

When the gospel is preached, God Holy Spirit convicts the elect of the Truth of Jesus, convicts them of their sin and need for a Savior. Draws them to God by regenerating them, freeing them from their enslavement to sin and allowing them to respond with faith in our Lord Jesus (which they do every time God so works in their lives.)

There, now you know what I believe, though I don’t expect you to agree, I would appreciate it if you didn’t claim I believed anything different from what I have stated.

And, I am fully willing to have a civil conversation about anything I said. Just leave the personal attacks to others.

Peace to you

So now could you please explain to me the lie God told to Cain?

And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.

I’ll wait.

 

[Ben1445]

Jesus is speaking to a church full of professing Christians in Revelation 3:20. I’m sure the context won’t stop you from believing what you want to believe

Here is another group of “professing Christians.” We even have record of their profession that we don’t have in Revelation.

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”



“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

 

[Layman]

Telling people to come to Christ and believe in Him when they cannot. That is literally a false gospel. Telling them they can do something that can’t is not good news of any sort.

I can tell anyone that if they believe in Christ, they will be saved. There’s no way for me to know if God has given them the ability to believe. There’s no way for me to know if they are professing a genuine faith or if their faith will persevere. Neither of us can read the heart of another person. Seems to me like we’re in the same boat.

 

[canadyjd]

So now could you please explain to me the lie God told to Cain?

And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.

I’ll wait.

You call God a liar? Very bold. You don’t understand the passage because you are attempting to use it as a proof text.. and you are out of context.

God did not accept Cain’s offering because he didn’t shed the blood of a spotless lamb, as Abel had done. If he offered what God required, God would accept it. That is what the passage says.

When the rich young ruler came to Jesus and ask what he must do to see the Kingdom, Jesus told him to keep the commandments.

Was Jesus lying? No, of course not. If he could have kept the commandments perfectly, he would see the Kingdom. But he could not, because he loved his wealth.

Just because gives requirements, doesn’t mean we have the ability to keep them with His intervention.

I notice you completely ignored the context of Revelation 3:20. Have you decided your use of “I stand at the door and knock” is an inappropriate proof text for your belief all are given an “invitation”

Peace to yoh

 

[canadyjd]

Here is another group of “professing Christians.” We even have record of their profession that we don’t have in Revelation.

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”

“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Don’t really know what point you are making, but to be clear, Matthew 7 demonstrates salvation is about a relationship with Jesus Christ.

And you still haven’t addressed your missing the context of Revelation 3:20.

Peace to you

 

[Ben1445]

I can tell anyone that if they believe in Christ, they will be saved. There’s no way for me to know if God has given them the ability to believe. There’s no way for me to know if they are professing a genuine faith or if their faith will persevere. Neither of us can read the heart of another person. Seems to me like we’re in the same boat.

Not really. I believe that when I give the gospel, God wants everyone to come to Him and really didn’t want Adam to sin.
I’m not sure we are at the same lake.

 

[Ben1445]

Don’t really know what point you are making, but to be clear, Matthew 7 demonstrates salvation is about a relationship with Jesus Christ.

Willingly ignorant?

And you still haven’t addressed your missing the context of Revelation 3:20.

You ignored me when I addressed it.