Baby shower for an unwed mother

[Pastor Larry]

We come from such a different set of presuppositions that such an argument would be tedious for me and unconvincing for you.

Perhaps since I am not sure where you are coming from. I believe that Jesus reached out to sinners, served them, was not afraid to hang around them. Jesus offered forgiveness and love to sinners. He condemned those who hypocritically judged sinners.

If that's not where you are, then I probably won't be convinced by your argument.

Just an observation, however...the casuistry of this discussion doesn't seem to be in accord with the general tenor of Christ's ministry. Just my opinion, at least.

So you don't think Jesus would have served unwed mothers by providing things like diapers, clothes, help with learning how to be a mother, forgiveness for her sin, etc.? I think he would have, and that is what most of us here have suggested. I haven't seen anyone suggest otherwise, though perhaps I missed it somewhere.

 

[StefanM]

Perhaps since I am not sure where you are coming from. I believe that Jesus reached out to sinners, served them, was not afraid to hang around them. Jesus offered forgiveness and love to sinners. He condemned those who hypocritically judged sinners.

If that's not where you are, then I probably won't be convinced by your argument.

So you don't think Jesus would have served unwed mothers by providing things like diapers, clothes, help with learning how to be a mother, forgiveness for her sin, etc.? I think he would have, and that is what most of us here have suggested. I haven't seen anyone suggest otherwise, though perhaps I missed it somewhere.

I agree with your statement there.

I most certainly do think that Jesus would have served unwed mothers in that way. What I am suggesting is that Jesus wouldn't worry about whether or not a baby shower was appropriate or not. I think he would be more concerned with needs being met and the mother's (and baby's) well-being (in all aspects). A lot of things Jesus did "sent the wrong message" to some people, yet he still ministered to people just the same.

 

[Pastor Larry]

What I am suggesting is that Jesus wouldn't worry about whether or not a baby shower was appropriate or not.

I think he would have.

I think he would be more concerned with needs being met and the mother's (and baby's) well-being (in all aspects).

I think he would be much more concerned with this than a shower. Many here are too concerned about a shower.

A lot of things Jesus did "sent the wrong message" to some people, yet he still ministered to people just the same.

I don't think Jesus ever sent the wrong message. I think some people, becuase of misguided values, misunderstood the message. And I think that is what is going on here.

 

[Beth]

Agreed

Perhaps I am reading too much into this, but there seems this idea that God's love can't be shown without a baby shower. Why? Can we not show God's love by actually caring for the young lady and providing things she needs without drawing attention and celebrating the situation?

Is anyone here suggesting we should not care for this young lady?

Yes, there are so many witnessing and serving opportunities that can be expressed to this young woman. She will need baby stuff, of course, but also help with the baby's daily care.

I was reminded by this thread of a very uplifting story. There once was a family at Calvary Baptist Church in NH who took in an unwed teenaged mother. She lived with them after having the baby (she kept the baby), was discipled by them and grew in her faith. When her son was about ten years old, she married a wonderful Christian man who adopted her son. She had more children, with both she and her husband active in church. Such a lovely ending and a wonderful testimony of what God can do in a Christian's life!

Beth

 

[BaptistLady02]

Yes, the church should allow the use of its property for a baby shower to be held for the unwed mother.

 

[EdSutton]

What is always missing in these conversations is the guy. How should we treat the men in our churches who had children out of wed lock. For instance I went to a church where this young woman was black listed for having gotten pregnant out of wedlock. She did something unusual and confessed her sin before the whole church (publically!) Wow. Imgaine that! Yet she had to sign a contract and stayed out of any ministry for a year according to the contract. Once her year was up she wanted to sing again in the choir but was prohibited and the church wanted to write up another contract and she hadn't done anything wrong. Certain people stopped speaking with her etc... Yet in this same church we had a deacon who was living together with his fiancee. I left the church before I found out if he ever actually married his girlfriend. I think the application of church discipline in this case was very lopsided. I voted yes btw.

Someone has now brought up the obvious.

And just think, it only took 18 posts, to do so!

It takes two individuals for this situation, the last time I checked.

Let's not place all the responsibility (and effectively the subsequent 'blame') on the mothers alone, please.

Ed

P.S. As per my usual practice, I did not vote in the poll.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Someone has now brought up the obvious.

And just think, it only took 18 posts, to do so!

Actually I think the obvious thing was the first post, repeated in its entirety here:Should the church allow the use of its facilities for a baby shower of an unwed mother?

As you can see, it wasn't about the male, or the repentance or lack of it. Perhaps you should start a thread on that. This thread was not about that.

Let's not place all the responsibility (and effectively the subsequent 'blame') on the mothers alone, please.

I don't think anyone did. That simply wasn't the topic of this thread.

 

[Dr. Timo]

Our Church allows this with a ministry effort called, "Showers of Blessing". Some ladies of our Church use our Church building on a schedule (others are used also) and they have a baby shower for a soon to be mom that wouldn't otherwise have a baby shower. Since we minister to folks outside the Church we have no way of knowing if the perspective mother is married or not. It does not matter for them to be ministered to though and I thinks that's a good thing. Our Church members involved are responsible for the setting up and cleaning up after and it has become a great blessing for all involved.:godisgood::applause:

 

[rbell]

Our Church allows this with a ministry effort called, "Showers of Blessing". Some ladies of our Church use our Church building on a schedule (others are used also) and they have a baby shower for a soon to be mom that wouldn't otherwise have a baby shower. Since we minister to folks outside the Church we have no way of knowing if the perspective mother is married or not. It does not matter for them to be ministered to though and I thinks that's a good thing. Our Church members involved are responsible for the setting up and cleaning up after and it has become a great blessing for all involved.:godisgood::applause:

Yeah, we had a "showers of blessing" for an expectant mom a few months ago.

Now the baby's tummy and the formula don't agree...

So...

"mercy drops 'round us are falling..."




Thank you, I'll be here all week...

 

[corndogggy]

Wonder why the people who voted "no" aren't piping up?

I've seen one situation where it would be questionable. A poor underage unmarried couple was somehow living together and had a child. They would come to church but would just sit outside in the hall or would leave and come back to get the child. They were obviously just using church as a babysitter. Then they had the gall to start asking around for advice for conceiving another baby, because they were having trouble.

Otherwise, to refuse a shower is to judge them. Pretty sure you're not supposed to do that. Probably not supposed to do it in the above scenario either but it's kind of hard not to.

 

[MB]

I voted yes.
I just love kids. I'd come to the shower an offer a gift for the child. Whether the child is conceived out of wedloc or not. Although I probably wouldn't be invited since it is usually mostly a woman thing. I'd go if I were invited though.
MB

 

[PeterM]

For those that take issue with holding the shower on a church campus...

Is it your opinion that the church facilities are in some way holier than another venue that could be used? I still run into some folks that see the church buildings this way and I can certainly see how that might influence a decision.

That said, the building is just a buliding and the dirt it was built on is just dirt. This may sound overly simplistic, but in my view the more "sinners" we have on the grounds gives us a better shot at actually "being" the church... Win, build, send!

 

[Pastor Larry]

Otherwise, to refuse a shower is to judge them. Pretty sure you're not supposed to do that.

How is not having a shower judging someone? Babies are born all the time that we don't have showers for. Furthermore, the Bible explicitly commands us to judge. So on what basis are you "pretty sure you're not supposed to do that"?

 

[Pastor Larry]

For those that take issue with holding the shower on a church campus...

My issue has nothing to do with location.

Is it your opinion that the church facilities are in some way holier than another venue that could be used?

Nope.

This may sound overly simplistic, but in my view the more "sinners" we have on the grounds gives us a better shot at actually "being" the church... Win, build, send!

Yes, I think that is overly simplistic. I think we be the church by being the church, not by the number of baby showers we throw. I know that makes me a bit of a weird duck, but I think we can be the church by doing what Scripture says rather than what modern tradition says.

 

[corndogggy]

I had a daughter out of wedlock. Yes, people make mistakes, and you don't know the whole story, nor will you. All I've got to say is that I'd love to see a judgmental holier-than-thou person around here do something to disrespect her, because it wouldn't be pretty.

 

[Pastor Larry]

All I've got to say is that I'd love to see a judgmental holier-than-thou person around here do something to disrespect her, because it wouldn't be pretty.

Is that a threat of violence?

No one here is disrespecting anyone, especially not the child. Perhaps a more cautious and grace-filled tone would be appropriate for your response.

 

[matt wade]

I had a daughter out of wedlock. Yes, people make mistakes, and you don't know the whole story, nor will you. All I've got to say is that I'd love to see a judgmental holier-than-thou person around here do something to disrespect her, because it wouldn't be pretty.

Yes, people make mistakes, but those mistakes should not be celebrated by things like baby showers. If I went out and got drunk and killed someone, I wouldn't expect my church to throw a party for the murder I just committed. Neither should you expect the church to throw you a baby shower for having a child out of wedlock.

 

[corndogggy]

Yes, people make mistakes, but those mistakes should not be celebrated by things like baby showers. If I went out and got drunk and killed someone, I wouldn't expect my church to throw a party for the murder I just committed. Neither should you expect the church to throw you a baby shower for having a child out of wedlock.

A shower is about helping a family more than having a party. The initial monetary costs and the time needed to collect the items are so overwhelming that without a shower the family would usually have to do without, especially if it's a single mother, and the person who suffers the most is the innocent child.

It's also ironic that Christians would turn their back on someone in what could be their darkest hour, the most overwhelming time of their life when they need the most help and support. At this time, it's amazing that some of you would say "sorry, you're not good enough for our help and support".

When does it end anyway? If you shun them at shower time, when do you stop shunning them? If you feel that you are right for shunning them, then you don't stop, even if they continue to hang around, leaving that child to grow up in a hostile church that shuns them. How is that being a good Christian?

Also ironic that you would compare birth to murder.

 

[webdog]

Yes, people make mistakes, but those mistakes should not be celebrated by things like baby showers. If I went out and got drunk and killed someone, I wouldn't expect my church to throw a party for the murder I just committed. Neither should you expect the church to throw you a baby shower for having a child out of wedlock.

The mistake is not being celebrated. If you start with a false presupposition, you end with a false conclusion.

 

[Pastor Larry]

A shower is about helping a family more than having a party.

No, not typically. It is about helping, but it is more about the celebration of it.

The initial monetary costs and the time needed to collect the items are so overwhelming that without a shower the family would usually have to do without, especially if it's a single mother, and the person who suffers the most is the innocent child.

But as we have pointed out, this can all be done without a shower.

It's also ironic that Christians would turn their back on someone in what could be their darkest hour, the most overwhelming time of their life when they need the most help and support. At this time, it's amazing that some of you would say "sorry, you're not good enough for our help and support".

Can you point to anyone who has said this?

When does it end anyway? If you shun them at shower time, when do you stop shunning them? If you feel that you are right for shunning them, then you don't stop, even if they continue to hang around, leaving that child to grow up in a hostile church that shuns them. How is that being a good Christian?

Has anyone suggested shunning them? Please quote the person you are talking about so we can see what you are referring to.