Infants in Heaven

[OldRegular]

All infants inherit a sin nature as the result of Adam's transgression. In time, barring an early death, all will sin because of that sin nature.

However, to say that a newborn infant is capable of either sin or faith is absolute nonsense.

I believe that those who die as infants, prior to the knowledge of sin, are covered by the Grace of God. I believe that Mohler is correct in his discussion of this issue.

 

[OldRegular]

I didn't take it out of context. The parenthetical expression wasn't needed. Here's a paraphrase: "If I were not filled with the Holy Spirit then there would be nothing good in me. Without the Spirit, I am wholly depraved."

Your paraphrase is semantic nonsense!

All humans, except those who are partakers of the Divine Nature by grace through faith, are wholly depraved. No good thing dwells in them. They don't simply do evil, they ARE evil.

I am not sure what you mean by wholly depraved. If you are talking about the inability of unregenerate man to do anything relative to his salvation then I will agree.

That being said it is nonsense to say that an unregenerate man can do nothing but evil. Unredeemed people do good every day. It is true that those good deeds do not change their relationship to God but it is not true that they are incapable of doing good for their neighbor.

 

[Dale-c]

Of course unsaved people, in a sense do temporal good every day.
They can feed the hungry. They can be good neighbors. They can be honest and upright citizens. They can make good CEOs. They can make good governors or police officers.

But even all of these temporal things that they do are sinful to God.
Remember that even the plowing of the wicked is sin.

It is not a crime. It is not a temporal sin. In fact two people can work side by side, one giving God glory, the other working for his own glory, one sinning, one not sinning. Both performing the very same act.

 

[OldRegular]

If any infant makes it to heaven it is by the grace of God and apart from what scripture teaches about repentance and faith.

Cheers,

Jim

I agree: If any infant makes it to heaven it is by the grace of God and apart from what scripture teaches about repentance and faith.

It is not possible that an infant can exhibit faith and without faith there is no repentance. So those who die as infants are saved by the grace of God.

A question: When a regenerate man repents is he repenting of the sins he has committed and the inherited sin nature or is he repenting of just the sins he has committed?

 

[Aaron]

If it is a Gift following regeneration it is obviously of the Holy Spirit.

Can the Holy Spirit indwell an infant?

 

[OldRegular]

Can the Holy Spirit indwell an infant?

I believe that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his Mothers womb. [Luke 1:15]

If you know of others feel free to name them!

 

[Carico]

What is your view on infants who die? Do they go to be with the Lord and what do you justify your position with?

The only way to God is to know Jesus and have received his forgiveness. But all Christians know this which is why infant baptism was started and became popular. There is no reason to baptize an infant if people instinctively know that people go to heaven just because they were born. But infant baptism is nothing more than a superstitious ritual because it doesn't do anything to give babies a knowledge of our Lord or lead them to repentance and salvation.

 

[Johnv]

... two people can work side by side, one giving God glory, the other working for his own glory, one sinning, one not sinning. Both performing the very same act.

True, but Christians need to abandon the notion that they have an exclusive on working for God's glory. A Jew (or, for that matter, any deist), for example, can be working for God's glory. The topic of working for God's glory and the topic of salvation are separate topics.

Getting back to the OP of infants in heaven: This is a good example of why we should refrain from trying to judge a person's heart. One can presume that damnation requires a person to have a spiritual opportunity to reject salvation. Infants, infirmed, and persons with particular mental incapacitations could be said to lack such accountability. How God handles such individuals salvifically is entirely up to Him.

 

[OldRegular]

The only way to God is to know Jesus and have received his forgiveness. But all Christians know this which is why infant baptism was started and became popular. There is no reason to baptize an infant if people instinctively know that people go to heaven just because they were born. But infant baptism is nothing more than a superstitious ritual because it doesn't do anything to give babies a knowledge of our Lord or lead them to repentance and salvation.

You correctly state: But infant baptism is nothing more than a superstitious ritual because it doesn't do anything to give babies a knowledge of our Lord or lead them to repentance and salvation.

So are you saying that all those who die as infants are condemned to hell? It appears so from your response.

 

[Aaron]

I believe that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his Mothers womb. [Luke 1:15]

If you know of others feel free to name them!

Jeremiah.

All right then. Infants can exercise faith, for faith is a work of the Spirit, and the Spirit can indwell infants.

So the question: Infants in heaven?

None. Spirits, and transformed, non-infantile bodies of those who died as infants and who were saved by grace through faith are in heaven.

But no infants.

 

[Allan]

Jeremiah.

All right then. Infants can exercise faith, for faith is a work of the Spirit, and the Spirit can indwell infants.

So the question: Infants in heaven?

None. Spirits, and transformed, non-infantile bodies of those who died as infants and who were saved by grace through faith are in heaven.

But no infants.

To be filled with the Spirit (such as with John) does not mean to be indwelt by the Spirit.

We are commanded to be 'filled' with the Spirit, but we are never given a command to be 'indwelt'.

The Spirit can 'fill' a person or empower them but believers also 'need' His filling continuously. Therefore filling is not indwelling and should not be confused as such. Indwelling refers to a perminant state or residency, where-as filling refers to an empowering for various reasons and since it that must be repeated or maintained it is temporary by nature.

People in the OT were filled with the Spirit of God and He also left them to.
Does this mean a person can loose their salvation??

Not trying to get Off topic but giving this in relation to the statement that 'filled' refers to 'indwelling'.

 

[OldRegular]

Jeremiah.

All right then. Infants can exercise faith, for faith is a work of the Spirit, and the Spirit can indwell infants.

So the question: Infants in heaven?

None. Spirits, and transformed, non-infantile bodies of those who died as infants and who were saved by grace through faith are in heaven.

But no infants.

You are wrong.

1. Faith is the gift of the Spirit, not the work of the Spirit. The regenerate person who receives the gift of the faith exercises that faith in response to the Gospel Call which then becomes the Effectual Call.

2. Infants cannot hear the Gospel Call. Infants cannot exercise faith! Infants though born with a sin nature do not sin.

 

[ray Marshall]

You are wrong.

1. Faith is the gift of the Spirit, not the work of the Spirit. The regenerate person who receives the gift of the faith exercises that faith in response to the Gospel Call which then becomes the Effectual Call.

2. Infants cannot hear the Gospel Call. Infants cannot exercise faith! Infants though born with a sin nature do not sin.

I will refer you to JOB 3:3,16-17 If this isn't heaven then it sure seem like a good place to be.

 

[ray Marshall]

I will refer you to JOB 3:3,16-17 If this isn't heaven then it sure seem like a good place to be.

Sorry I gave the wrong chapter, Please refer to JOB 3:16,17

 

[Aaron]

You are wrong.

1. Faith is the gift of the Spirit, not the work of the Spirit.

Talk of your semantics!

The regenerate person who receives the gift of the faith exercises that faith in response to the Gospel Call which then becomes the Effectual Call.

Does the regenerate person exercise faith with his spirit or his flesh?

2. Infants cannot hear the Gospel Call. Infants cannot exercise faith!

Wow. How do you know? Have you received special revelation?

Infants though born with a sin nature do not sin.

It doesn't matter how you say it, they're corrupt.

 

[OldRegular]

By OldRegular
The regenerate person who receives the gift of the faith exercises that faith in response to the Gospel Call which then becomes the Effectual Call.

By Aaron
Does the regenerate person exercise faith with his spirit or his flesh?

What is regenerated, the flesh or the soul [spirit]?

Do I detect a little gnosticism in your posts?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
You are wrong.

1. Faith is the gift of the Spirit, not the work of the Spirit.

By Aaron
Talk of your semantics!

That is not semantics; that is fact. It is the regenerate person who exercises the gift of faith, not the Holy Spirit!

 

[OldRegular]

By OldRegular
Infants though born with a sin nature do not sin.

Retort by Aaron
It doesn't matter how you say it, they're corrupt.

And that is buffalo chips, or cow chips whichever you prefer.

 

[OldRegular]

Sorry I gave the wrong chapter, Please refer to JOB 3:16,17

Your point eludes me. Verse 16 sure doesn't sound like heaven; Verse 17 might if you have a vivid imagination.

 

[Jim1999]

Infants can demonstrate their temper from the crib! They can demonstrate their sinful nature from birth. I did not have to sin to be a sinner. This is why so many early churches sprinkled (baptized) infants within 8 days of birth. They had to rid them of original sin.

Cheers,

Jim