Obamacare and Death With Dignity

[OldRegular]

Only place I could find it was here

New York Times, a Marxist rag, a great source LB.:laugh:
No doubt divinely given!:laugh:
Engraved on tablets of stone.:laugh:
Written by the moving finger of Marx himself.:laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

CBT you do not tell the truth.

In Post #3 you introduced the issue of machines for life support, saying:

If I am terminal, suffering and being kept alive only by machines please pull the plug.

In post #21 you again introduced the issue of machines saying:

Where is your faith? Plugging in machines and keeping me alive is not allowing allowing God to pick his time for me to die.

In post #33 you again introduced the issue of machines saying:

I think you faith is in the machines else you would not want them used endlessly until the plug finally has to be pulled. Otherwise you would not insist on the machines being plugged in in an ultimately hopeless case.

I responded to the above accusations in Post#40 saying:

YOU LISTEN CTB! It was you who dragged in the machines not me.

In Post#40 I also responded to a series of comments that you made in Post#33. Some of the responses were apparently beyond your ability to comprehend so you have continued your endless diatribe.

I will say again that you do not tell the truth.
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Addendum! Addendum! Addendum! Addendum! Addendum!
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And furthermore CTB only you mentioned machines as life support.

 

[OldRegular]

Here... Sorry, it was 72% so I stand corrected.

GOP is preventing open discussion by making a sin or or assigning a bad label to everything someone publicly says. Like the great Senator said, their sole aim is to stop Obama from succeeding and they can careless what that means to people in need.

How are Republicans preventing open discussion? They are rarely, if ever, allowed to speak in Congress.

 

[OldRegular]

Only if you make it a sin. There is no law in the Bible that says, "thou shalt not have an abortion". And because there is no such law, you are stating your belief and not a biblical fact.

Exodus 20:13 NKJV You shall not murder.
Deuteronomy 5:17 NKJV You shall not murder.
Matthew 5:21 NKJV You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’

If you don't believe that the slaughter of the unborn is murder LeBuick then you don't belong on this Forum.

Secondly, no one has mandated abortions in the legislation. That I know of??? Did you find it mandated?

Then why are the democrats refusing to allow an amendment that specifically prohibits taxpayer funding of abortions? I will tell you why, They all, but about 20, believe that it is okay to slaughter the unborn including Obama. What about you LeBuick?

Also both lawyers and doctors who have read the hodgepodge of bills say that it will fund abortions and ration medical care. If you would get your news from other than Marxist sources you might learn something LeBuick.

 

[rbell]

Here... Sorry, it was 72% so I stand corrected.

GOP is preventing open discussion by making a sin or or assigning a bad label to everything someone publicly says. Like the great Senator said, their sole aim is to stop Obama from succeeding and they can careless what that means to people in need.

First of all...this poll was by the New York Times....remember "plagiarism-gate?" Their credibility isn't exactly stellar right now.

I've had too many "phone polls" at my house (which, by the way, the ones that agenda-push, I give as bad an answer as possible just to mess them up) to know that some of these polls are garbage.

Secondly...I've said this before, repeatedly: Why is it that an alternative must be offered? If I am against Government Healthcare...why should I be expected to offer an alternative to Obama's plan? I don't want the government doing healthcare. So....my offering an "alternative" plan that involves government healthcare...well, that's just intellectual dishonesty.

I have enumerated many, many reasons I'm against this horrible legislation:

• The bill will bankrupt our country.
• It puts the incompetent souls that gave us the IRS, Walter Reed Army Medical Hospital, FEMA, Barney Frank, Larry Craig, your local DMV, etc., in charge of some of the most important and life-altering decisions we'll ever face.
• It makes medical personnel government employees.
• It legislates out of existence the option of private insurance (oh, sure, you can KEEP it...but you can never change private insurers).
• It will pay for abortions.
• It will ultimately set up "the lifestyle police," since the premise is, "well since I'm paying for your care, I can tell you how to live." We're already there to a small degree...it will ratchet up big-time.
• So far, Obama has lied at every instance about the cost.
• In order to pay for this, a draconian tax must be leveed...and the CBO can't even really tell us if that's enough. (remember, folks: poor people don't give folks jobs)
• It is anti-freedom. What right does the government have to fine someone for not having health insurance? Why not just say to everyone, "OK, no insurance....we won't take care of you."
• It will put government bureaucrats in charge of our decision-making with regards to personal healthcare decisions. And yes...they are worse than corporate ones. At least corporate ones can be fired, and their profit motive can be leveraged. (Yes, there are abuses. We know). But do you know how hard it is to fire a government worker? Particularly if they are overweight, left-handed, gay, Eskimo, dyslexic, or any other "protected class."

I could go on all day...but that gets the point across. Suffice it to say...I feel no need to support an anti-liberty bill that replaces another anti-liberty bill.

 

[rbell]

Only if you make it a sin. There is no law in the Bible that says, "thou shalt not have an abortion". And because there is no such law, you are stating your belief and not a biblical fact.

Oh, PLEASE don't tell me you're going with "there's no Biblical objection to it." God help you for that terrible line of thought. The Lord rebuke you for justifying such a awful thing. Your rationalizating away of killing children is disturbing, evil, and is an affront to a holy God. You seriously need to reconsider.

Secondly, no one has mandated abortions in the legislation. That I know of??? Did you find it mandated?

Look, this ain't rocket science. At every turn, Obama has provided funds to kill children. Why would he not do it here? Don't be obtuse.

 

[matt wade]

Only if you make it a sin. There is no law in the Bible that says, "thou shalt not have an abortion". And because there is no such law, you are stating your belief and not a biblical fact.

May God have mercy on you...

 

[Revmitchell]

May God have mercy on you...

Amen....................

 

[LeBuick]

Thou shalt not kill

Exodus 20:13-----------IS a Biblical fact!!!!!!

Mandated murder and voluntary murder is still what?????

Murder

Unfair rebuttal since I am not allowed to state or defend my views on when life begins. However, if Ex 20:13 is a mandate to be pro-life, why be selectively pro-life? Why not be pro every life and not just the unborn? Why not be as outraged for the doctor who was killed as you are for the unborn you say he killed? I don't see a license to differentiate in that verse so where did the selective pro-life come from?

We had people here who thought he murder was a good thing?

 

[OldRegular]

Unfair rebuttal since I am not allowed to state or defend my views on when life begins. However, if Ex 20:13 is a mandate to be pro-life, why be selectively pro-life? Why not be pro every life and not just the unborn? Why not be as outraged for the doctor who was killed as you are for the unborn you say he killed? I don't see a license to differentiate in that verse so where did the selective pro-life come from?

We had people here who thought he murder was a good thing?

Surely you are not that dense. There is a world of difference between the deliberate killing of the innocent [called murder] and the killing of the guilty.

And life begins at conception regardless of your opinion.

 

[LeBuick]

Surely you are not that dense. There is a world of difference between the deliberate killing of the innocent [called murder] and the killing of the guilty.

And it is your function to determine who is guilty, right? I thought we had a righteous judge...

And life begins at conception regardless of your opinion.

Not according to the Bible but you are entitled to your views.

Hint... Breath of Life... Self explanatory.

 

[alatide]

You don't know my church very well then. Don't compare you and your liberals buddies that don't help anyone (and expect the gov't to do it) to me and my church. As a church we help many poor and needy people all the time. As an individual I do the same. Guess what...I'd do even more if the government didn't steal so much of my hard earned money.

Oh, btw, hi JustChristian!

My churches have always supported the poor and needy as well. I just don't believe they are doing enough to replace the care the government provides out of our tax money.

 

[alatide]

My faith is in God: where is yours? Do you think machines are sovereign over God?

No. So why rely on them to keep a person alive but unconscious?

 

[alatide]

Absolutely phenomenal post.

Many of our "helpless" citizens wouldn't have lasted a week in the 1930's, 1780's, or pretty much any era before now.

Is it fair that some of us have to take care of relatives, at great cost? No. But where is, "life is fair" written?

Life isn't fair but our government can be fair in its treatment of the poor and needy.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
Surely you are not that dense. There is a world of difference between the deliberate killing of the innocent [called murder] and the killing of the guilty.

Response Posted by LeBuick
And it is your function to determine who is guilty, right? I thought we had a righteous judge...

We do and if you will examine Scripture you will find that the penalty for murder of the innocent was far different than for murder of the guilty.

Originally Posted by OldRegular
And life begins at conception regardless of your opinion.

Response Posted by LeBuick
Not according to the Bible but you are entitled to your views.

Hint... Breath of Life... Self explanatory.

I don't have to hint. Scripture tells the story.

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

God is talking about Jeremiah but this Scripture is applicable to all as far as God's remarks concerning life.

 

[alatide]

Well, abortion is a sin - and that sure doesn't slow down the democrats or their Christian supporters. Why do you think that what others call Obamcare makes a difference?

Exactly what have the Republicans done about abortion? (All Republican presidents since Roe vs. Wade?)

 

[targus]

No. So why rely on them to keep a person alive but unconscious?

Do you believe that a machine could keep a person alive if God did not will it?

Evidently you do believe that machines to be soverign over God - your protests not withstanding.

 

[OldRegular]

No. So why rely on them to keep a person alive but unconscious?

You tell me why. I have never advocated on this Forum using machines for life support. You are simply propagating the lie of crabtownboy.

 

[OldRegular]

Exactly what have the Republicans done about abortion? (All Republican presidents since Roe vs. Wade?)

You are intimately familiar with all the crap that Freedon, JustChristian, and BaptistBeliever spewed. Coincidence?

But just in case:

1. Who twice vetoed the Ban on Partial Birth Abortion? Clinton, a democrat.

2. Who signed the Ban on Partial Birth Abortion? Bush, a Republican.

3. Who has promised to sign the bill restoring the Partial Birth Abortion procedure? Obama, a Marxist/democrat.

 

[alatide]

Do you believe that a machine could keep a person alive if God did not will it?

Evidently you do believe that machines to be soverign over God - your protests not withstanding.

Actually I would repeat what I said before in answer to your question.

No. So why rely on them to keep a person alive but unconscious?

However, this question is far broader than the current discussion. Since God is sovereign over everything why do anything to prevent or cure sickness? In fact, why do anything? God will provide. I don't accept this and I doubt anyone else does. I believe that god intervenes in the world but He also expects us to do our part using our free will.