Ccm

UMM--I'm the grandma with the headache and the little one driven under the pew. I felt Johnv (with whom I agree on most things on these boards) was implying that if I have a problem with the service, I am the "weaker brother (or sister). I'm quite willing to wear that label. I realize not everyone has a problem with it, so I do not expect my brothers and sisters to not enjoy it. Just accept that FOR ME and FOR MY FAMILY it was causing problems in this instance.

But I appreciate your willingness to put the worship needs of others first. I agree totally that THAT is what the Bible teaches.

Just thought I'd clarify who's little tyke was hiding under the pews.

 

Really? Where's the Gospel Rag from the turn of the 20th century, and the Gospel Big Band and Swing from the 30's and 40's?

Surely you can tell me, having done a "serious study."

 

So, the music in the hymnals is in no way indicative of the time period in which the music was written?

Good luck making that one fly...but then again, Aaron kind of makes his own rules with regard to this subject...

 

Exactly!!!

 

A whole lot of excellant, EXCELLANT, music came from the Toronto blessing.

Some things in that movement troubled me a bit, but no doubt....GREAT christian music.

 

In general I enjoy a very large variety of music, but I have to say, I find CCM often to just be lousy music.

When I am in church however I really enjoy good old fashion hymns. I enjoy listening to them as well as singing them. I like the messages better, I like the harmonizing of all the parts, and I like the songs themselves better.

I also really enjoy, but much harder to find those grand type of choirs with more of a classical songs and sound.

 

Is there an answer to my question, or can I take that as a capitulation to the fact that historically the world has indulged styles that the church has shunned?

 

Two flaws, Aaron:

1. Still waiting for the scriptural basis.
2. Mighty Catholic of you to elevate church precedent on an equivalent plane with Scriptural mandate.

 

I'm simply challenging the implied assertion that the church has always helped herself wholesale to any popular style of the time, instead of it being a recent phenomenon.

 

Here is the big difference that I see.
The vast majority of our hymns in the hymnbook (that we use) were written in the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. Ancient according to some people's standards. As I glanced through the authors of the hymns and the composers of the music, and the names I saw were mostly Godly men and women whom I still recognize today: Charles Wesley, Fanny Crosby, Handel, Philip Bliss, Horatio Spafford, John Newton, etc. Some men were great preachers. Some were mature Christians, gifted with a talent writing from their heart. Some wrote of out great tragic experience when God spoke to their heart in time of distress. Some wrote directly of the attributes and praise of God and were even theological in nature. In fact many were.
Fanny Crosby was blind, but gifted. A great number of hymns come from her.
Charles Wesley complained to his father. His father challenged him that if he didn't like the music of the 18th century than to write his own hymns. He was a musician and so he did.
Horatio Spafford wrote only one hymn in his life. His daughters had perished when a ship sank at sea. This is after he lost his business in NY, and also suffered loss in the great Chicago fire. He wrote: "It is Well With My Soul."
John Newton, a slave trader, came to Christ, and wrote: "Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me."
Handel wrote a number of hymns: the greatest being Handel's Messiah.
The list goes on and on.

The music we listen to today sometimes has good words, but the music is a cheap imitation of the world. Since the world has rock Christianity has rock. Don't tell me that the world had Handel's Messiah, or even music like "It is Well With My Soul." They didn't.

Today's CCM is a best seller. You can find it in any secular music store. The testimony of many unsaved people is that they buy it for the music and don't care about the words. Why? The music is a cheap imitation of the world. It wasn't so in previous generations. And that is the difference.

 

DHK...

Does your church meet in a building? What a cheap imitation of the world. The world has buildings.

Does your church have light bulbs? What a cheap imitation of the world. The world has light bulbs.

CCM is a wonderful blessing that christians who like it can enjoy. The beginning of CCM was the converted hippie musicians in the late 60's and early 70's who found Jesus. They werent doing a "cheap imitation" of anything...they were playing the real thing, only with lyrics about Jesus.

CCM is a completely authentic genre of music.

Its just wonderful that we have so many different styles of music in the christian culture. CCM. Old Hymns. Newer hymns. Gospel bluegrass. Country gospel. Southern Gospel. Hip hop. Rap.

Those last 2 I personally cant stand. Unlistenable noise to me. But I would never slam them just because I dont like it. Lots of christians, for some reason...:laugh:...do.

 

That depends. I think I will answer your questions from a different perspective. I am a missionary. Some of the countries I go to don't have buildings. They worship out in the open. It is a nation where poverty abounds.

Not where I go. Even in the places that are fortunate enough to have electricity it is sporadic. They might have it for half the day. And its current fluctuates.

The world enjoys it. But the world does not enjoy "What can wash away my sin," or "There is a fountain filled with blood." However, secular music stores are filled with CCM music. But they have no room for traditional hymns--not the stores that I have wandered into.

Yes, John Lennon had some words about Jesus also. He also liked the hippie movement. Do you have any idea about the words that John Lennon spoke about Jesus? Is this the hippie movement you are speaking about? The Bible admonishes us to "come out from among them and be separate saith the Lord." "or what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

Marilyn Manson is "authentic" also. It doesn't make it right.

Music is not amoral. It is moral. It has a spiritual element to it. Perhaps better put some music appeals to the flesh more than others. That is why CCM sells in secular stores and the old hymns of the faith don't.

 

You kinda have to know what music is before you can make a valid comparison.

 

Hey, rbell. Funny how you insist on flawless accuracy from your opponents (which is supplied day after day), but won't challenge the myths and urban legends offered as fact on your side.

 

DHK...

I said...

And you said...

No, they dont. Christians play, buy, and listen to CCM. The lost arent generally interested in CCM.

No they arent. They may have a small section somewhere, but I have never seen ANY secular music store that has a substantial amount of Christian music.

CCM is purchased primarilly through the christian bookstores. The Baptist LifeWay stores, etc

Sometimes that *small section* in the secular stores that I mentioned sometimes have recordings of traditional hymns. I have seen them many times...and bought some. But again. 99% of what is sold in secular stores is secular music.

I said...

And you responded...

Why are you bringing up John Lennon? He never was part of the "Jesus people" (the converted hippies). He and George Harrison were the most *religious* of the Beatles, but they were never converted. Lennon didnt believe there was a God, and had sort of a "Lets just all love one another" type of false spirituality.

George Harrison got in with the Hari Krishnas.

Neither of them were ever legitimatly converted hippies.

No

The Jesus people that came out of the hippie movement did just that.

Instead of writing and playing music about the "summer of love" or about sexual exctacy or acid trips....they wrote and played music that that lifted up Jesus Christ as our only hope for salvation.

Thats why they stopped playing the worldly music used to play, and started playing Jesus music.

And there has been a continuance of that "coming out from among them and being seperate" from the late 60's and early 70's all the way up until today.

CCM

Jesus music.

Praise God!

 

Aaron,

Well, hello there, friend. Our paths cross again.

:laugh:



Well, I kinda do know what music is. I've kinda been a semi-accomplished musician for about the past 31 years. :wavey:

 

Wow. All that time and you still don't know. If you knew, you wouldn't be drawing analogies from buildings and lightbulbs.

 

Wow Aaron, surely you must have been the captain of the debate team where you went to school.

 

Aaron...

:laugh:

 

sag...

Yep.